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How Many Kilometres Does One Square On The Map Represent?


seanjo

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The small squares are 25.5k coordinate units, or what I call 63.75 NANM if you want precision.  In km, this is 63.75km (remember 1 Naval Action Nautical mile is 1km).

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21 hours ago, Prater said:

The small squares are 25.5k coordinate units, or what I call 63.75 NANM if you want precision.

I think the Devs need to explain what the scale unit is in game. I concur with Prater that a map grid square is ±25k. I have checked this extensively to Google Earth and come to the following conclusion: The k unit in game, distances given between ports according to the Trader tool, is neither Nautical Miles, Imperial Miles nor Kilometers. It is in fact some other random unit that the Devs have invented for whatever reason. I have not checked if this relates to leagues yet.

It appears though the ship speed unit in game is indeed Knots, i.e.: Nautical Miles per hour

I would suggest that the Devs use a relevant unit of measure in game, as Map Grid and in distances between ports. I would further suggest that the Devs give us at the very least a Divider to scale distances on the map in addition to the Protractor tool on the map. A very nice addition would be a log peg board to record ships speed to aid in dead reckoning.

I must say that the Protractor is a very handy tool indeed.

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I've already explained everything above.  Devs don't need to explain anything.  Projection can throw off distance from one projection to another.  At x,z 0,0, 400 coordinate units (i.e, 1 Naval Action Nautical Mile) are closest to 1 KM.  The farther you get from 0,0, the less 400 coordinate units are comparable to 1 KM in the real world.

And remember, I've already said Naval Action uses its own projection.  You cannot compare it to google maps (you can come up with formulas to convert x/z to lat/lon, I did this prior to my map and Siegfried's map).  Although, I'm not an expert, so maybe there is a way you can compare projections and I just don't know about it.  If the devs change knots to km/m then we can call 400 units 1 km.  But until then, I'll call 400 units 1 nautical mile even though the distance doesn't compare to the real world.

 

 

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My point is: You have a Virtual Open World based on the Caribbean. Regardless of map projection, the distance from one place to another is a given distance...weather this is represented in Nautical Miles, Imperial Miles or Kilometers, or Light Years for that matter, it is still empirically the same distance. So why would you craft a virtual world based on a real world model to a different scale and unit of measure. That makes absolutely zero sense. You aren't sailing on a scaled map...you are sailing in a virtual world based on real world geography. And aren't the Devs heading to creating a Simulation...of a real world past era?

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Whether on map representations or in the real world all distances relate back to true real world distances. On maps you either use a scaled rule or dividers which you place against the map scale...giving you the true distances in known measurements Nautical Miles / Imperial Miles / Kilometers / Leagues / Light Years / whatever.

The distance from say Havana to Kingston Port Royal is 532 Imperial Miles / 856 Kilometers / 462 Nautical Miles. Whether this is in 1780 or 2017, measured on a map or in the real world, by boat or plane, satellite or with a theodolite, it will always be this, whatever unit you choose.

In NA this distance is given as 327k. What unit of measure is that? What is your reference to Historical Maps? They all used known scales and projections to known units of measure.

What is the point to change that? There is none. The Devs probably didn't think of that and therefore we sit with this historical inaccuracy.

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Lol...

This is a friggen game, not geography simulator.  Download google earth if you want that.  P.s.  The historical maps aren't all the same.  Game Labs has artistic freedom to do what they want with the map.

As I have said elsewhere, the problem comes with the knots value we are given.  It being closer to km/m than anything else.  If knots corresponded to a measurement that was closer to nautical miles, it would make more sense, but it doesn't.  Who cares.

The 327k is Unity coordinates.  What game labs calls 1 Knot equals 400 of these per minute.  They probably weren't thinking about pedantic nit pickers when they did this.

 

p.s.s  Naval Action is not the real world!  Pretty sure Total War doesn't have perfectly accurate maps, or Sid Meyers Pirates, or Age of Pirates, or AC4, or Viking Conquest (M&B), or most other games.

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This isn't the real world but a game engine and a video game.  Unity is the Game Engine.  Who figured out what knots refers to in game and how much distance is covered by it?  Me.  No one else has revealed this.  Who came up with the first landmass map for what we have in game?  Me.  Who figured out the formulas for how to convert x/z to lat/lon to put on google maps before we had game maps?  Me.  Don't see you doing anything with the map at all.

The map has already gone through several iterations where landmass has completely changed.  Game Labs made it, it doesn't line up with what is in real life!

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In my humble opinion is doesn't appear logical to change the units and scale. In my view I would just stick to what is real and known. Apart from that it would be remarkably easy to revert to real world units of measure and reflect them as such. In doing so will aid in the realism of the game.

 

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19 hours ago, The Wren said:

I actually have a map of the Caribbean in 1:1 scale! ;) It's a real bitch to fold.

Sarcasm much me thinks. All Navigational Maps, new and old, have a scale. Usually represented as a scale bar on old maps. All Navigators use these maps extensively along with relevant tools at hand. The absence of this in game makes navigating somewhat farcical. Solution: Add Compass/Divider tool to measure distance on map. Add scale to map with unit of measure. I frankly fail to see the overwhelming defense of a random map scale and unit.

P.S. Incidentally the Developers claim on the Official Game website that the Pinkerton map of the West Indies was used for the open world. This map has a grid which is calibrated in degrees. The game map grid differs significantly to that.

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21 hours ago, The Wren said:

I actually have a map of the Caribbean in 1:1 scale! ;) It's a real bitch to fold.

 

2 hours ago, Sir William Hargood said:

Sarcasm much me thinks. All Navigational Maps, new and old, have a scale. Usually represented as a scale bar on old maps. All Navigators use these maps extensively along with relevant tools at hand. The absence of this in game makes navigating somewhat farcical. Solution: Add Compass/Divider tool to measure distance on map. Add scale to map with unit of measure. I frankly fail to see the overwhelming defense of a random map scale and unit.

P.S. Incidentally the Developers claim on the Official Game website that the Pinkerton map of the West Indies was used for the open world. This map has a grid which is calibrated in degrees. The game map grid differs significantly to that.

 

I told you that I basically have a LIFE SIZE map of the Caribbean and you THINK I'm being sarcastic? :P:D

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The Pinkerton map was a base.  What is in game isn't exactly that though, look at any of the player created maps that were based on coordinates.  There are similarities but major differences, specifically Central America, Yucatan, Lesser Antilles, and Cuba.  If you look at the Pinkerton North America map, there are even more differences.  The Pinkerton West Indies map is centered on Hispaniola, Naval Action is centered on Jamaica.  The game world has gone through at least 2 major phases with significant changes.  We entered the current phase in July 2015 if I remember right, when many landmasses were changed.  As I already explained, Game Lab's grid is based off the coordinate system in Unity, the game engine Naval Action is built on.

Jamaica:  Naval Action:  248km wide.  Google:  232km wide.  Pinkerton:  about 210km wide.

Hispaniola:  Naval Action:  710km wide.  Google:  647km wide.  Pinkerton: about 660km wide.

1 degree of latitude:  Naval Action:  126.1km. Actual:  111.2km.  Pinkerton:  111.8km.  To get this latitude I took the distance from Islas de Mangles, Cuba to slightly west of Mariel, Cuba because this is easily measured.  On Pinkerton's map, this is 1 degree of latitude.  On google the landmasses don't line up with Pinkerton and Naval Action, so while this is a degree of latitude, you can't really compare because the Islas de Mangles are different.  So, instead I just use the actual distance of a degree of latitude.

North point Island of Tortuga to mainland South America (1 degree of Latitude on Pinkerton's map):  Naval Action 109km.  Google maps:  98.8km.  Pinkerton:  111.8km.  Google maps has the line of latitude inland of Venezuela, Pinkerton has it on the coast, so that is why there is a discrepancy there. 

Distance between 17th and 18th parallels:  Naval Action:  About 122km.  Actual:  111.2km.  Pinkerton:  111.8km.

Notice the discrepancy in distance in the distance of one degree of latitude in Naval Action.  One is 126km, another is about 122km, and another is 109km.

 

I'd like to remind everyone, my map has a scale, and it is fairly accurate to what we have in Naval Action.    

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Again, as I have said many times.  400 game units = 1km.  We get game coordinates by hitting f11.  So we have this unit of measurement available to us.  Then we have another unit of measurement and this is in the speed of your ship, given as knots.  Each knot translates to 400 game units per minute, or 1 km per minute.  You should see the problem, what is given as knots in the open world refers to km per minute instead of nautical miles.  For a scale to really make sense, these two things need to be reconciled.  Otherwise you have knots, i.e. how many nautical miles you are travelling, referring to how many kilometers you are travelling and 1km equaling 1 nautical mile.  

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