Ultimate General vs. Total War

[Albert Sidney Johnston]

3 hours ago, Fred Sanford said:

Fourth!  Still sitting in my closet with the rest of my AH games.  My first AH game was War At Sea- still have it along with a bunch of others. Anybody else have a copy of Longest Day (MONSTER Game)?

I'm afraid not, but I'm just so surprised everyone else owns a copy of Gettysburg! I friggin' love that game! The only problem was conning someone into actually playing it with me...

[Andre Bolkonsky]

1 hour ago, Albert Sidney Johnston said:

I'm afraid not, but I'm just so surprised everyone else owns a copy of Gettysburg! I friggin' love that game! The only problem was conning someone into actually playing it with me...

This. Soooo much this. For some reason, people don't like to spend time learning complicated board games I am already good at just so they could play me and lose. I never figured out why. 

Which is why the old Axis and Allies game by Larry Harris was so fun. It's kinda realistic, you don't have to earn a PhD in the rulebook, and if you lose you can blame the dice. People actually lined up to play that game. 

Now, with the internet, with all these guys making all these videos, everyone is better than me. 

Damned internet, ruined everything. 

Well, except that Greek guy building that game about the American Civil War, its name escapes me at the moment. Silver linings, and all that. 

[deltahill]

I own all the total war series games and any/all american civil war games on the market. I have to say that empire total war is a great game but this ultimate general takes the cake. It lets you interact with the units on a personnel level and i love the direction its going. If you can put ultimate general with a sand box version starting from fort Sumter 1861 to Appomattox surrender in 1865 it would put this game over the total war series games by a huge margin. I been playing these kind of games since computers came out. Ultimate general is so far the best game design out and i truly hope the designers are on it to make it even better and they continue to support the product. Letting players build the army's from scratch  with a generated battle map will make it that much better....allowing them to make there own strategic decisions will jump this game into hyper drive. 

 

i used to have all the AH games as well i loved them american civil war is my favored period of warfare in strategy. I remember buying the first game in in 1978-79. great strategy games

Edited April 23, 2017 by deltahill

[Wright29]

I'll do you one better, OP. I went back and played the FIRST Rome Total War which was an evolutionary game of its time. Still holds up as a fun and challenging experience on the campaign map. But the battles are basically all the same and there are optimal army compositions and tactics for each faction. 

For UGCW, people complain about lack of choice and some difficult scenarios. But it is far better than the alternative of incredibly repetitive and ahistorical battles like you get in the Total War series. 

[A. P. Hill]

Believe it or not, I've never played total war.

[vren55]

I found Total War and UG:CW occupy different parts of my gaming library. Though i like them both.

In Total War, if I want to feel good about myself and build massive shiny armies just to look at the lovely graphics before using some rudimentary tactics to screw the AI, then I play that game.

If I actually want a challenge, and I have lots of time to replay, I play UG:CW. It's the puzzle-solver game that feels more XCOM like. 

If I have to say one major flaw with the Total War games though, I don't play them purely for gameplay these days, I play them to look at shiny units and feel good, which means that I am not interested in getting later expansions/iterations, particularly b/c it's ridiculously expensive and has so much graphics demand. And unfortunately, they're getting progressively more expensive and with higher graphics demands.

[deltahill]

I posted earlier about the sand box version of ultimate general it would satisfy every tactical/strategic concern. if the div's implemented a generated map system as they move strategically that would create all the play-ability for every gamer strategically and tactically. 

Edited April 23, 2017 by deltahill

[Albert Sidney Johnston]

6 hours ago, vren55 said:

If I have to say one major flaw with the Total War games though, I don't play them purely for gameplay these days, I play them to look at shiny units and feel good, which means that I am not interested in getting later expansions/iterations, particularly b/c it's ridiculously expensive and has so much graphics demand. And unfortunately, they're getting progressively more expensive and with higher graphics demands.

Exactly! UG-CW does what I think every game should do: instead of spending lots of time and money developing fancy graphics, just make an interesting game. All the games these days are just all flash.

[Captiva]

On 3/27/2017 at 3:58 PM, Andre Bolkonsky said:

Is Strategic Command any good? 

Andre. Have you ever played 'Command Ops 2' from Lock n Load Publishing? It's a operational level wargame set during WW 2. It's a fantastic game. The core engine of the game is free to download. It comes with 3 scenarios. In other words, you get to try the game for free. You then can purchase the Commander Pack which includes: Market Garden, Greece, North Africa and Battle of the Bulge.

It's definitely worth checking out.

[Hethwill]

1 hour ago, Captiva said:

Andre. Have you ever played 'Command Ops 2' from Lock n Load Publishing? It's a operational level wargame set during WW 2. It's a fantastic game. The core engine of the game is free to download. It comes with 3 scenarios. In other words, you get to try the game for free. You then can purchase the Commander Pack which includes: Market Garden, Greece, North Africa and Battle of the Bulge.

It's definitely worth checking out.

Totally this. Takes time to learn, to get used to but is the closest to proper academy kriegspiel. Glad I pre ordered when in development so all packs came by some 50 euros or so.

( hardest is to let go of micromanagement and trust the subordinates )

Similar to it ( and putting SoW on the side ) Histwar is a good project that I want to see through fully.

[MishaTX]

On 3/29/2017 at 4:37 PM, Fred Sanford said:

Fourth!  Still sitting in my closet with the rest of my AH games.  My first AH game was War At Sea- still have it along with a bunch of others. Anybody else have a copy of Longest Day (MONSTER Game)?

I played that one, but I never owned a copy. Beautiful game, not to mention it taught me how to read German unit symbols.

I DID own Fire in the East/Scorched Earth (Drang Nach Osten/Unentschieden), though. Only game I ever owned that required you to have an empty room in your house if you ever wanted to play it. And all of the ASL series, of course. All of the units lovingly sorted into their own separate emptied matchboxes (which gave me a problem with the ginormous pile of matches that I never did find out what to do with), indexed and numbered by type.

On the topic of UGCW, I haven't often been able to say "well damn you, AI, how the hell did you figure that one out, you sneaky bastard?". UGCW does that surprisingly often. I guess all of the AAA developers constantly moaning about how it's "impossible" to program an AI that is able to act logically and adapt to the situation need to have a talk with Darth :-)

Yes, I know, it sometimes does stupid stuff too, but it's the moments where I go "damn, that's exactly what I'd have done!" that stand out. Which, by the way, is one huge difference between UGCW and TW. Once you've figured out the AI of TW (which doesn't take long), it'll never surprise you. That hasn't been the case for me with the AI of UGCW. 

I still enjoy TW, though, mainly for the sheer relaxed fun factor, the epic tactical battles and the campaigns, but it's been a looooong time since it's challenged me in any way.

[vren55]

6 hours ago, Albert Sidney Johnston said:

Exactly! UG-CW does what I think every game should do: instead of spending lots of time and money developing fancy graphics, just make an interesting game. All the games these days are just all flash.

Mind you I think Total War Warhammer is a bit of an exception. It is Genuinely interesting due to the spellcasters. However, the campaign of Total War really... well it doens't suck, but it needs a serious reworking b/c their AI hasn't really changed much. 

[civsully1]

On 3/29/2017 at 9:09 PM, Andre Bolkonsky said:

This. Soooo much this. For some reason, people don't like to spend time learning complicated board games I am already good at just so they could play me and lose. I never figured out why. 

Which is why the old Axis and Allies game by Larry Harris was so fun. It's kinda realistic, you don't have to earn a PhD in the rulebook, and if you lose you can blame the dice. People actually lined up to play that game. 

Now, with the internet, with all these guys making all these videos, everyone is better than me. 

Damned internet, ruined everything. 

Well, except that Greek guy building that game about the American Civil War, its name escapes me at the moment. Silver linings, and all that. 

Ahhh squinting at the terrain effects modifer tables.....direct and indirect fire tables......I missed AH so much awhile back I went on ebay and bought the entire collection of the General on CDs!!!  Still a lot of fun reading them cover to cover.

I wonder if anyone still plays the board games. I've got half a closet filled with old games! Guess that makes me a closer gamer........

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard]

Command Ops and Histwar are amazing games, happy to see others play them. But if you are into monster wargames then nothing beats war in the pacific admiral edition.

total war can only be bland compared to those masterpieces, but it has graphics, base building, and different thematics including samurais and warhammer.

Ultimate general is a very different beast in a very different style. Apples and oranges. It has its own special unique place, not counting civil war generals 2.

if you like total war fall of the samurai, do check out the tv serie yae no sakura

Interestingly enough, rifles from the american civil war ended up being sold in japan.

[A. P. Hill]

I need a gun cabinet like that!

[DeRuyter]

18 hours ago, The Red Duke said:

Totally this. Takes time to learn, to get used to but is the closest to proper academy kriegspiel. Glad I pre ordered when in development so all packs came by some 50 euros or so.

( hardest is to let go of micromanagement and trust the subordinates )

Similar to it ( and putting SoW on the side ) Histwar is a good project that I want to see through fully.

Wait is Histwar still being developed? I thought the project was dead and moved on to SoW Waterloo. I am more of a Napoleonic wars devotee than ACW anyway. I did find Napoleon TW playable with Darthmod of course. That could be said of the whole TW series, much better with realism mods.  

[Hethwill]

Truth be told Histwar Napoleon RC3 has a year or so. If Histwar developer went to work with Norbsoft, no idea.

Napoleon TW I like NTW3 more than Darthmod. But Darth kicks hell on Empire TW ( my favourite post-sprite TW ).

[Fred Sanford]

I love Command Ops, in fact I suggested an chain-of-command and orders delay feature for UG:CW in a thread a few weeks back.  I also just started a WITP:AE solo game.  My main gripe with WITP:AE is the extreme micromanagement needed (along with the ancient interface).  Love the scope though.  My ultimate 'dream game' would be a mix of WITP:AE for scope and combined ground/naval/air ops, with a Command Ops chain of command/orders delay pausable continuous time  engine, on a Command Modern Air/Naval Ops Google-earth type globe map and mission/scenario editor (but higher resolution).  Of course, the editor and game engine could handle strategic/operational simulations from the pike-and-shot era up to near modern era. I would pay a stupid amount of money for that game, since it'd be the last one I ever bought.

[Andre Bolkonsky]

22 minutes ago, Fred Sanford said:

I love Command Ops, in fact I suggested an chain-of-command and orders delay feature for UG:CW in a thread a few weeks back.  I also just started a WITP:AE solo game.  My main gripe with WITP:AE is the extreme micromanagement needed (along with the ancient interface).  Love the scope though.  My ultimate 'dream game' would be a mix of WITP:AE for scope and combined ground/naval/air ops, with a Command Ops chain of command/orders delay pausable continuous time  engine, on a Command Modern Air/Naval Ops Google-earth type globe map and mission/scenario editor (but higher resolution).  Of course, the editor and game engine could handle strategic/operational simulations from the pike-and-shot era up to near modern era. I would pay a stupid amount of money for that game, since it'd be the last one I ever bought.

As a good friend of mine once said: "Don't bother playing WITP until you're retired and have a few years to kill" 

A game where a turn takes an entire weekend. No, thank you. 

If only this was computerized . . . . 

[Andre Bolkonsky]

2 hours ago, Captain Jean-Luc Picard said:

Command Ops and Histwar are amazing games, happy to see others play them. But if you are into monster wargames then nothing beats war in the pacific admiral edition.

total war can only be bland compared to those masterpieces, but it has graphics, base building, and different thematics including samurais and warhammer.

Ultimate general is a very different beast in a very different style. Apples and oranges. It has its own special unique place, not counting civil war generals 2.

if you like total war fall of the samurai, do check out the tv serie yae no sakura

Interestingly enough, rifles from the american civil war ended up being sold in japan.

And Tom Cruise showed up as their military instructor, iirc. 

Proving once again there is nothing Tom Cruise's ego can't ruin. 

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard]

20 minutes ago, Andre Bolkonsky said:

My main gripe with WITP:AE is the extreme micromanagement needed

As a good friend of mine once said: "Don't bother playing WITP until you're retired and have a few years to kill" 

A game where a turn takes an entire weekend. No, thank you.

 

Actually the first turn will definitely take you several hours at the very least, as you need to set up a lot of things, and then maybe 30 minutes per turn for a bit as there is a lot of action everywhere, however after that the turns are relatively fast, say 15 minutes most of the time, as you have already set up everything. There is also a lot of automation that is easy to miss, like naval convoys or air patrols, and units can march from A to B on their own over several turns, no need to move them every single turn.  It also helps to organize large naval convoys instead of many small ones.

It is also a good idea to use a checklist to quickly go throught things ( new units-done, logistics-done, intel reports-done etc) instead of looking everywhere at every detail including those that don't need checking at the time.

Note also that japan has less territory to manage than the allies.

Also after a few turns you have a good hang of what is going on so you know what to look at and where.

From my experience and a couple other people, a single year is enough to finish the game.

 

 

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard]

20 minutes ago, Andre Bolkonsky said:

My main gripe with WITP:AE is the extreme micromanagement needed

As a good friend of mine once said: "Don't bother playing WITP until you're retired and have a few years to kill" 

A game where a turn takes an entire weekend. No, thank you.

 

Actually the first turn will definitely take you several hours at the very least, as you need to set up a lot of things, and then maybe 30 minutes per turn for a bit as there is a lot of action everywhere, however after that the turns are relatively fast, say 15 minutes most of the time, as you have already set up everything. There is also a lot of automation that is easy to miss, like naval convoys or air patrols, and units can march from A to B on their own over several turns, no need to move them every single turn.  It also helps to organize large naval convoys instead of many small ones.

It is also a good idea to use a checklist to quickly go throught things ( new units-done, logistics-done, intel reports-done etc) instead of looking everywhere at every detail including those that don't need checking at the time.

Note also that japan has less territory to manage than the allies.

Also after a few turns you have a good hang of what is going on so you know what to look at and where.

From my experience and a couple other people, a single year is enough to finish the game.

 

 

[A. P. Hill]

1 hour ago, Andre Bolkonsky said:

And Tom Cruise showed up as their military instructor, iirc. 

Proving once again there is nothing Tom Cruise's ego can't ruin. 

Sorry.

Cruz ruins everything he touches.  But, you know what they say about opinions ...

[Andre Bolkonsky]

On 4/24/2017 at 3:40 PM, A. P. Hill said:

Sorry.

Cruz ruins everything he touches.  But, you know what they say about opinions ...

I have no idea if you are agreeing with me or contradicting me. 

[A. P. Hill]

Perhaps I misunderstood your post regarding Cruz???   

 

 

(The comment about opinions ... "Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one.)