elite92 Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 1 minute ago, admin said: yes. the size of the circles is a draft and will be tuned during testing. i can read in the screenshot: hostility points need to join? new feature? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elite92 Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 Just now, rediii said: since hostilitymechanics it is 0 required ever or it change? i mean can i enter a pb without hostility or not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stilgar Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 Those large join circles is a smart move: the attacker can join in groups from various directions, thus making screening a more difficult, but also interesting task. If a similar style raiding can be added and frequency of PBs tweaked to manageable levels, there will be perhaps no need for all the hostility hustle at all. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corona Lisa Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 How do I control such a zone? Do I need to capture it like a flag in other games or is it enough to have higher BR in that zone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaeberle84 Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 34 minutes ago, admin said: exactly this. Lets say BR limit for PB is 5000 pts. Your clan wants to win a PB. Due to harbor capture zones your fleet need several fast ships and mortar brigs in addition to first rates. If the limit for PB is 5000 you plan to take 2-3 first rates, 3-5 third rates to control passages and use fast ships to cap points and mortar brigs to destroy forts. Now when you sail to PB you found that 10 friendly santisimas (who also earned the hostility points) already entered the port battle from the OW reaching 5000 limit (10*500). Completely locking you from bringing frigates to cap and mortar brigs to destroy forts. Battle is lost as a result. Where is the problem? You have the same situation right now when some newbies join with their 3rd rates into a 1st rate port battle and take some of the 25 places... you could just test this feature for two weeks and then see if the problem is as huge as you claim it to be! =) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elite92 Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 Just now, JonSnowLetsGo said: How do I control such a zone? Do I need to capture it like a flag in other games or is it enough to have higher BR in that zone? i think it needs to be no enemies in the zone to gain points up to 1000. so when there are both attacckers and defenders in the zone it is contested, like WoWs and no1 get points 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elite92 Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 1 minute ago, shaeberle84 said: Where is the problem? You have the same situation right now when some newbies join with their 3rd rates into a 1st rate port battle and take some of the 25 places... you could just test this feature for two weeks and then see if the problem is as huge as you claim it to be! =) right! plus i suggested a slots sistem not a br 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angus McGregor Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 23 minutes ago, shaeberle84 said: Where is the problem? You have the same situation right now when some newbies join with their 3rd rates into a 1st rate port battle and take some of the 25 places... you could just test this feature for two weeks and then see if the problem is as huge as you claim it to be! =) A slot system is much easier to track without needing a calculator. "I'm going in!" "Wait! Wait! I'm still punching in the numbers!!! Noooooo!" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ned Loe Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 23 hours ago, JonSnowLetsGo said: How do I control such a zone? Do I need to capture it like a flag in other games or is it enough to have higher BR in that zone? Quick Guide on New PB Mechanics. Sail inside the circle, if there is no enemy cap it and start earning points. If there are enemies, destroy them+cap the circle and start generating points for your team. Points will go up if you have more players in the circle. Example: Defender orders it's players to go occupy 3 Circles and defend. Let's say 8 players in each one. Attacker must rush the 1st circle, destroy all enemies inside and cap it. Once there are no enemies or attacker has more players present in the circle Attacker will cap and start getting points. Attacker should leave at least 1 player in the circle before attacking another one. Same applies to the Defender, they can just leave one guy in the circle and push their entire force to just capped circle and retake it. This is endless battle until you team reaches 1000 points, or all enemies are sunk before you get 1000. You get points by controlling the circle, sinking players and destroying forts. If you control 2 circles and your fleet stays alive you will win if you hold the Circle Defense. Attacker objectives - rush any circle, destroy all enemies inside and take it. Place at least one guy as a Defender! Rush another Circle and secure it, make sure you fortify taken circles by leaving Defenders, so other team won't be able to retake it easily. Defender Objectives - Defend all 3 circles if possible. If circle is taken fortify 2 other ones and try to retake the 3rd. Defend Forts. Basically all you have to do is defend and counter strike taken circles and try to take them back sinking as much ships as possible during the process. Mortar group should rush Forts and destroy them asap to get point boost. Once all forts are destroyed Brig group can provide Circle cover or attack stationary SoLs in other words provide artillery support. I hope it helped. If you find it useful please ask Devs to add this to Guides section. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angus McGregor Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 I'm amazed that no one has asked what the point values are going to be. are points for sinking a ship pro-rated to its BR rating, or just 'x' ?? points per ship. how many points for fort/tower? how many points for controlling a zone? 'x' ?? per second or by full minute? The answers to these questions will allow at least some strategic planning ahead of time. Sun Tsu would not approve of just fumbling in the dark. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ned Loe Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 17 minutes ago, Angus McGregor said: I'm amazed that no one has asked what the point values are going to be. are points for sinking a ship pro-rated to its BR rating, or just 'x' ?? points per ship. how many points for fort/tower? how many points for controlling a zone? 'x' ?? per second or by full minute? The answers to these questions will allow at least some strategic planning ahead of time. Sun Tsu would not approve of just fumbling in the dark. I think they want us to test and find out. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eishen Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 17 minutes ago, Angus McGregor said: I'm amazed that no one has asked what the point values are going to be. This will be important for competitive stage.... but seems to me it should be result of testing more than a previous condition I would expect long guns shooting sails coming back into the equation, and 25 x first rate being no more best fleet for the job. Good wind management can be really important, and depending on requisites to add points from a zone (only one side ships / more BR than opponent) delaying tactics anf "martir" ships may win more than one engagement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yar Matey Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 (edited) We need the old flag system back! We need the old flag system back! We need the old flag system back! We need the old flag system back! I really cannot stress this enough! This can be fixed really easy, you pull a flag for any enemy port that is not the regional capital, if you win the port battle you generate hostility. It can be as simple as an open ocean battle with the exact same win conditions as the land battles have until you finish the land battles. Your game is hemorrhaging players really fast and it is because the only massive and epic pvp battles available were taken away with the introduction of the new hostility system and the removal of the old flag system. Devs please listen to your player base. We want your game to succeed as much as you do. Edited December 19, 2016 by Yar Matey 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cecil Selous Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 2 hours ago, admin said: That small Island begs for a fort . Maybe in the future we will see manually adjusted placement of forts and towers. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akd Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 I'd really like to see much fewer forts, but placements in more realistic locations. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ned Loe Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 51 minutes ago, Yar Matey said: We need the old flag system back! We need the old flag system back! We need the old flag system back! We need the old flag system back! I really cannot stress this enough! This can be fixed really easy, you pull a flag for any enemy port that is not the regional capital, if you win the port battle you generate hostility. It can be as simple as an open ocean battle with the exact same win conditions as the land battles have until you finish the land battles. Your game is hemorrhaging players really fast and it is because the only massive and epic pvp battles available were taken away with the introduction of the new hostility system and the removal of the old flag system. Devs please listen to your player base. We want your game to succeed as much as you do. Stay on given topic please. Flags were removed and now it's in the past. Today we are going to test new mechanics. So, please focus on the new content. No need to repeat yourself 100s of times. We have enough players to test new features and Devs do listen to players. This is not a final product and does not require 1000s of players. Take a break relax and come back when game is ready. We understand you. Everyone wants something, but you can't get it all at the same time. Brick by brick and we will see the final structure soon. Have patience and help us test the new content this week. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ned Loe Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 43 minutes ago, Cecil Selous said: That small Island begs for a fort . Maybe in the future we will see manually adjusted placement of forts and towers. Strategically by placing the Fort there you giving attacker an easy point boost. Attacker Brig fleet will pop it in few mins and will be ahead of you making their win easier. So, by placing Forts behind Defender it makes the game more challenging for an Attacker. I would say place 1 in front 1 behind to make the game even. However, placing them behind Defender is the best choice. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lokii Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 (edited) 5 hours ago, admin said: same rules as right now. Battle is open for attackers and defenders for some time. They will spawn where they enter based on their position in the circles. I think now would be a great time to clarify PB mechanics. I sail with the most of the hardcore British Captains and we still discuss the exact specifics of PB mechanics. Can we get clarity on the following and any others you know about? 1. How long is PB open for attackers to join if no attackers join, and then once first attacker joins? I really think PB should only initiate after the attackers actually attack btw (maybe 30 min window from due time when PB was "created by hostility" 2. How long is PB open if attacker(s) join, but then they leave? (PB griefing by alt) 3. How long is PB open if defenders enter, but some defenders leave without attackers entering? (this appears to have happened in the past, and closed the PB) 4. How many points are each ship and tower/square fort worth? 5. How long does it take to capture an area, and how many points do you get over time? 6. If a defender and attacker are in the capture area, do all points stop accumulating until only one side are in the area (BR based at all?)? (greifing by a lynx or gunboat impossible to hit at distance possible?) 7. 90 mins has not been long enough in the past, has testing revealed the 1000 points is easier to get in 90 mins now? should time limit be increased? 8. Logging in at port, how long do you have to wait to join PB? (has it been fixed?) thanks, and really looking forward to testing. Bringing back flags for Port raids would be excellent way to test this against non-region capitals or even just capitals. But hostility PB required to take port. Edited December 19, 2016 by lokii Login at port entry timer 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admin Posted December 19, 2016 Author Share Posted December 19, 2016 48 minutes ago, Angus McGregor said: I'm amazed that no one has asked what the point values are going to be. are points for sinking a ship pro-rated to its BR rating, or just 'x' ?? points per ship. how many points for fort/tower? how many points for controlling a zone? 'x' ?? per second or by full minute? The answers to these questions will allow at least some strategic planning ahead of time. Sun Tsu would not approve of just fumbling in the dark. Points distribution Kills/Sinkings Sinking enemy ships or losing your ships grants points according the following scheme. Lineships 40 pts All other ships 25 points. Because entry to battles is limited by battle ratings we believe that all ships are important to victory. The system with different points for ships is also supported. This also provides somewhat equal time for both battles (because if cutters are worth less - battles in light ships could last a lot longer). Forts and towers. Towers 50 points Forts 150 points Capture zones Captured zone ticks 2 points every 5 seconds. If attacker controls 1 zone and if defender controls another (with third being not captured) no points will tick for both sides. For points to tick your side has to control more zones than the enemy. 1 ship will capture the zone in 120 seconds 3 ships will capture the zones in 30 seconds. Zone can be captured if you have more ships in the capture zones than the enemy. It does not matter which size of vessels is in the zone - to promote diversity. So 2 frigates will capture the zone even if there is 1 enemy victory is present in the capture zone (of course 1 victory will not sail alone and will try to be in the main line with escorts easily sinking those frigates. All numbers are initial and will require testing and tuning. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admin Posted December 19, 2016 Author Share Posted December 19, 2016 54 minutes ago, Yar Matey said: We need the old flag system back! We need the old flag system back! We need the old flag system back! We need the old flag system back! I really cannot stress this enough! This can be fixed really easy, you pull a flag for any enemy port that is not the regional capital, if you win the port battle you generate hostility. It can be as simple as an open ocean battle with the exact same win conditions as the land battles have until you finish the land battles. Your game is hemorrhaging players really fast and it is because the only massive and epic pvp battles available were taken away with the introduction of the new hostility system and the removal of the old flag system. Devs please listen to your player base. We want your game to succeed as much as you do. hostility solved another problem - slow down conquest and remove the griefing with flags and alts. Later we found the solution to solve the flag problem but we had to do events first to understand it and provide tools to open the road for an improved hostility system that removes unnecessary grind. 13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ned Loe Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 Admin, I was just thinking, if Defender can see where Attacker fleet spawned they will quickly preposition their fleet just before an Attacker able to reach 1st Circle. I think you will need to add Fog or Limit Visibility. Otherwise, you will have Defender fleet charging an Attacker before they can even reach the Circle ruining the whole game. Visibility limit will make sure it's a surprise attack. Right now I can just cut the snakes head before it even able to bite me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admin Posted December 19, 2016 Author Share Posted December 19, 2016 6 minutes ago, Wind said: Admin, I was just thinking, if Defender can see where Attacker fleet spawned they will quickly preposition their fleet just before an Attacker able to reach 1st Circle. I think you will need to add Fog or Limit Visibility. Otherwise, you will have Defender fleet charging an Attacker before they can even reach the Circle. the variety of tactical options is endless here both in battle and in the open world.. For some harbors the route of attacker will be known even without screening. for example maracaibo attacker can only come from north or south I personally only worry about the wind and we will have to find the proper solution to it. All other features are better than old port battles, more diverse, more interesting and solve many issues that existed before. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ned Loe Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 4 minutes ago, admin said: the variety of tactical options is endless here both in battle and in the open world.. For some harbors the route of attacker will be known even without screening. for example maracaibo attacker can only come from north or south Yeah, but what about 1st picture with an open ocean? Right there I will just send an entire Fleet at them (leaving 2 fast guys camping) and it will be over on OS. I think you need Visibility limiter. Defender must not know where they attack until last minute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yar Matey Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 (edited) 37 minutes ago, admin said: hostility solved another problem - slow down conquest and remove the griefing with flags and alts. Later we found the solution to solve the flag problem but we had to do events first to understand it and provide tools to open the road for an improved hostility system that removes unnecessary grind. Thank you for responding and not editing my post. The thread is on port battles so I believe that the discussion of the old flag mechanic and the new hostility mechanics is on topic. That being said, most will agree that the there is nothing wrong with the hostility system, but the hostility system is not enough. We need more player verse player interaction that effects the actual world of the game. What's wrong with simply testing a hybrid flag and hostility system. Pulling flags for port battles can be used as a good way to generate hostility. Griefing can be easily fixed by simply banning a player (or an alt) from pulling a flag for 1 week if the player that pulls the flag and never plants it. Also, if the enemy manages to stop the flag carrier from planting, then he cannot buy a flag for 1 week. Edited December 19, 2016 by Yar Matey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daguse Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 First off LOVE it. no more just team death match crap. Two suggestions. Anyway you can add in a basic map to the battles on the mission screen. It would be nice to get some practice and test things out as a clan any time of day. Due to the need for a various types of ship in PB, anyway to get a list of what friendly ships are in the PB? 14 minutes ago, Wraith said: But why not just reintroduce flag system with the new, land in port battle mechanic for not port- or region-flipping port raiding? I like it. it would be an awesome way of adding raiding. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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