Pirates and French. same old. same old.

[Black Spawn]

To begin with yes i know:

 

Friendly fire is punished by an automatic system that issues negative XP and, with enough friendly sinkings, an XP reset and/or the offender being sent to the Pirate faction.

 

BUT how is it fair if a single Rattlesnake is up against a butthurt French and because he is unable to sink me and has to get support from his Pirate Buddys by green on green.

 

In said battle: Vil Coyote, DesMoines and myself. The "Bougain[..]" i was talking about in chat  I encountered earlier in a cutter also RATS Tag (see chattab) - so probably a scout for Coyote or more likely an Alt.

 

DesMoines just cripled my sails so his french buddy and the fleet could have a shot at me since i already shoot their sails down pretty good the battle before (without pirate support) as you can see in chat i thought he joined to help.

 

Also pay attention to the chat in the last image. I indicated multiple times that it was green on green but since he couldnt join a "smugglers"-battle he decided to join my side and was convinced he was doing the right thing.

 

Since he wont have to expect any punishment as i assume (never seen or heard that in case of green on green in general), if there is no reaction to this i am finally out of here.

 

Edited September 7, 2016 by Black Spawn

[Cecil Selous]

DesMoines? Again? After you did this to me when you were still french and I made a tribunal case you had the guts to apologize to me. I said that I can understand your frustration about other players playing unfair and you just had enough and I was in the wrong place at the wrong time. I believed in your apology cause it sounded honest and we had a nice chat after that. I thought you learned from this but it seems this isn't the case. Too bad!

[Powderhorn]

Friendly reminder:  All posts on here should be evidence, accuser, or accused.

 

For quick reference, as Cecil has provided evidence that this is not the first time this has happened, the last occurrence was approx. 3 weeks ago.  That relevant tribunal thread can be found here:  http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/15834-french-players-joing-my-british-side-in-battle-to-cripple-my-ship-for-pirates/

 

To clarify points for more rapid understanding:

 

The OP (Black Spawn) was flying a smuggler flag, and while this makes him "fair game" for any and all, DesMoines (a former French player, at least, three weeks ago), joined Black Spawn's "side" and proceeded to use green-on-green fire to hinder him.  DesMoines has done this before.

[Skully]

Your Honors, I would like to request entry to speak on behalf of the defendant.

[admin]

green on green not allowed. 

desmoines will be warned and if repeats transferred to pirates which side he just loves to join 

[Thonys]

But he is a pirate already .

 

IMHO the best punishment for him would be a transfer to Zergs.. i mean Brits !

then i would suggest a keel haul from bow to stern.

[Black Spawn]

green on green not allowed. 

desmoines will be warned and if repeats transferred to pirates which side he just loves to join 

 

To be honest i am not really satisfied with that answer.

 

1) He already is pirate, so even if he keeps this up literally nothing will happen

2) He did this at least 2 times with proof - i would bet some folks didnt even take this route of tribunal because:

 

8) Green on green   -  Game mechanic for detection, no report needed.

 

So what else has a troll to do to finally feel consequences?

Edited September 8, 2016 by Black Spawn

[Skully]

I beg your forgiveness for speaking out of turn.

The issue was already identified:

Here-be-Trouble

Who do we pull to which side?

If a French tags a Danish and an Independent/Pirate sail next to them. On whose side does the Independent/Pirate end up?

Or if two Clans decide to go to war, but they are allied on Nations, whose side gets the other Nationals sailing along?

As for Outlaws, they can be considered 1 man Clans.

I think the only solution is having a multi-sided battle in which each Clan forms a side. Then let the RoE stances dictate who you are allowed to shoot.

Well, we have a week to ponder the issue.

I was hoping we would have wacky week to resolve it.

In short, the game is shortcoming when it comes to Pirates. We all know this. Lets hit the Pray button a couple of times and have faith a solution will come.

[Black Spawn]

I beg your forgiveness for speaking out of turn.

The issue was already identified:

 

[...]

I was hoping we would have wacky week to resolve it.

In short, the game is shortcoming when it comes to Pirates. We all know this. Lets hit the Pray button a couple of times and have faith a solution will come.

 

Thats the underlying issue, agreed. BUT this is about breaking a RULE on purpose multiple times. Also he JOINED and wasnt pulled.

Edited September 8, 2016 by Black Spawn

[Quarios]

green on green not allowed. 

desmoines will be warned and if repeats transferred to pirates which side he just loves to join 

 

Cmon, i have been asking to be transferred to pirate. Why didnt u tell me this back then! Good to know there is still a way to become pirate without deletion.

[Black Spawn]

Friendly reminder:  All posts on here should be evidence, accuser, or accused.

 

period

[Skully]

Again begging forgiveness for speaking out of turn.

As verified by the accuser the defendant did not have the option to join the proper side.

I indicated multiple times that it was green on green but since he couldnt join a "smugglers"-battle he decided to join my side and was convinced he was doing the right thing.

So the defendant choose his second best option, join the other side.

Furthermore I would claim it as a right for a Pirate to have the freedom to attack anything and anyone at anytime should he choose to do so.

It would however have shown character and caliber of DesMoines if he had clearly stated his intentions up front. But what can one expect from a Pirate?

The game however is lacking the proper means to do and DesMoines put himself at odds with the automatic green-on-green system.

I would also argue there is no case against DesMoines as he is clearly already appropriately appointed a Pirate.

green on green not allowed.

desmoines will be warned and if repeats transferred to pirates which side he just loves to join

[Black Spawn]

Furthermore I would claim it as a right for a Pirate to have the freedom to attack anything and anyone at anytime should he choose to do so.

 

I beg to differ. If he had the right to attack each and everyone - and these rules would apply to everyone - yes. BUT not cherrypicking and clearly joining as a FRENCH (check the chat).

 

 

The game however is lacking the proper means to do and DesMoines put himself at odds with the automatic green-on-green system.

 

He had the pure intention to cripple my sails - in which case the automatic green-on-green system obviously doesnt react. he did that multiple times - so if one would be strict you could title it as a exploit of the automatic system as well if this appeals you more.

[Tenakha Kan]

I can say two things,

 

- one is Bougainville is not an alt he is a regular poster on this forum, he was formerly in the same french clan as DesMoines: FRL before turning pirate. Moreover I know both from TS.

 

- Vil Coyote and DesMoines have played together for as long as I remember, MRF and FRL having been very close clans. Now DesMoines has gone pirate. He was clearly escorting his friend. You were smuggler, preventing him from joining the fight to help his friend...he chose to enter anyway. Maybe I could have done the same. this situation is an overlook of the devs. Why are national smugglers and pirate the same faction?!

Edited September 8, 2016 by Tenakha Kan

[horail]

first of all i disagree what desmoins made.

 

I beg to differ. If he had the right to attack each and everyone - and these rules would apply to everyone - yes. BUT not cherrypicking and clearly joining as a FRENCH (check the chat).

 

 

He had the pure intention to cripple my sails - in which case the automatic green-on-green system obviously doesnt react. he did that multiple times - so if one would be strict you could title it as a exploit of the automatic system as well if this appeals you more.

 

How can you say that the system doesn't react if you never did it ? Desmoines had negative XP out of this battle but he already paid his fee.

But we all know that you are using the smuggler flag knowing that if you counter tag an IA, pirates will not be able to fight against you because you will be concidered has a pirate..

 

So desmoines is doing something that is already punished by the game mecanism.. and you are using an know mecanics to avoid being attack by pirates (Could we call that Exploit ?)

Edited September 8, 2016 by horail

[Black Spawn]

[...]Now DesMoines has gone pirate. He was clearly escorting his friend. You were smuggler, preventing him from joining the fight to help his friend...he chose to enter anyway.[...]

 

I got tagged by the India. A single Rattle cant pull a India let alone with a fleet of two. DesMoines joined up from Plymouth after I already had a battle and damaged the sails of his NPCs severely and Vil Coyote was peeved unable to outmatch me. So it was INTENTIONAL.

 

 

But we all know that you are using the smuggler flag knowing that if you counter tag an IA, pirates will not be able to fight against you because you will be concidered has a pirate. Desmoines had negative XP out of this battle but he already paid his fee

 

Did not know that to this point and is only valid if you are already pulled into a battle as it seems - otherwise pirates can and have attacked me under the smuggler flag. How is this in proportion, setting a easy prey with the victim losing a life and a dura compared to a bunch of minus xp.

 

 

But still please:

 

Friendly reminder:  All posts on here should be evidence, accuser, or accused.

Edited September 8, 2016 by Black Spawn

[Skully]

Forgive the intrusion.

 

I beg to differ. If he had the right to attack each and everyone - and these rules would apply to everyone - yes. BUT not cherrypicking and clearly joining as a FRENCH (check the chat).

I already asserted in the past that the French have no notion of alliance or whatever flag to raise.

http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/15623-pvp1-august-3rd-the-french-émissaire/

While he clearly is French, I merely look upon the title the game has given him, "Curse".

 

He had the pure intention to cripple my sails - in which case the automatic green-on-green system obviously doesnt react. he did that multiple times - so if one would be strict you could title it as a exploit of the automatic system as well if this appeals you more.

I fully agree that his intentions are clear. Bypassing the automatic green-on-green system this way is again very dishonorable. I would like to expect more honor as well, but he is a Pirate... a French one to boot.

[Black Spawn]

I already asserted in the past that the French have no notion of alliance or whatever flag to raise.

http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/15623-pvp1-august-3rd-the-french-émissaire/

While he clearly is French, I merely look upon the title the game has given him, "Curse".

 

How does this make a difference. "[...]and these rules would apply to everyone - yes". What he is titled doesnt matter.

 

I made my points. I am done. Either Desmoines raises his hand or we wait for the admins and mods to decide. Nothing productive out of this otherwise.

 

 

Friendly reminder:  All posts on here should be evidence, accuser, or accused.

[Cecil Selous]

first of all i disagree what desmoins made.

 

 

How can you say that the system doesn't react if you never did it ? Desmoines had negative XP out of this battle but he already paid his fee.

But we all know that you are using the smuggler flag knowing that if you counter tag an IA, pirates will not be able to fight against you because you will be concidered has a pirate..

 

So desmoines is doing something that is already punished by the game mecanism.. and you are using an know mecanics to avoid being attack by pirates (Could we call that Exploit ?)

 

In my case where he demasted me, he got roughly -100xp. That amount is laughable for a max rank player and I would say even for many lower ranks. The automatic punishment by the game must be much higher. It won't prevent players from doing it but it will hurt them more.

 

I don't know how high the penalties for sinking or hull shootng is, but this doesn't matter when sail shooting is the only thing you need to do to cripple your enemy so your friends can finish him.

 

And I don't understand the arguments like he is a pirate, that's what pirates do. If this is the case with joing the other side and commiting green on green then we can forget the tagging mechanics. 

 

The situation with smugglers counting as pirates is another subject and should be looked at.

[horail]

I made my points. I am done. Either Desmoines raises his hand or we wait for the admins and mods to decide. Nothing productive out of this otherwise.

 

For information, i'm not sure that desmoines will raises his hand in this tribunal case since he doesn't understand well english and i often need to translate him what is happening on the forum.

 

it will be easier for me to know what he risk to explain him and let him make his choice, but i cannot explain why he could have a double penalty since this is already in the game mecanisme and all the other case where dismissed saying that (this is an evidence)...

[Chimera]

There is no Double Penalty involved -100xp and 1000gold Or the likes can hardly be considered a punishment.

All I can see is a multiple offender who knows that nothing would happen to him if he "just shoots sails".

[Black Spawn]

[...] but i cannot explain why he could have a double penalty since this is already in the game mecanisme and all the other case where dismissed saying that (this is an evidence)...

 

One last addendum to make my point clear. To quote a mod:

 

 

Friendly fire is punished by an automatic system that issues negative XP and, with enough friendly sinkings, an XP reset and/or the offender being sent to the Pirate faction.

 

By "only" cripling sails via green on green you will never even get close to a unpleasant punishment through the automatic system and therefore it is an abuse from my point of view. Nobody really cares about a few hundred XP later on. Leveling an officer, losing Duras or even goods is in no comparison. Therefore i opened this tribunal and demand higher punishment - especially if you are a reoffender.

[horail]

One last addendum to make my point clear. To quote a mod:

 

 

By "only" cripling sails via green on green you will never even get close to a unpleasant punishment through the automatic system and therefore it is an abuse from my point of view. Nobody really cares about a few hundred XP later on. Leveling an officer, losing Duras or even goods is in no comparison. Therefore i opened this tribunal and demand higher punishment - especially if you are a reoffender.

 

So the automatic system need readjustement and punishement should be the same for all..

 

But i have a questions for you :

what did you lost in that battle ? did you lost your ship ?

how long did you wait in the battle summary screen to avoid desmoines to attack you the right way ?

[Bougainville]

   Since I have the dubious honor of being accused of being an alt, I therefore have a voice in this thread.    Plus, Desmoines needs an advocate who is fluent enough in english for representing his interests before the Court. This at least can't be denied to him.

 

   Therefore, as a self-appointed honourable representative, I would highlight that, this is before all a developer's issue. If Desmoines had the option to join the fight on Coyote's side, there is no doubt he would have chosen it. The game simply did not leave him the choice. Furthermore, there is no objective reason why a pirate should be forced to side with a smuggler and not a national of his own choosing. I witnessed firsthand the mechanic since I actively tried to join Coyote on his first engagement : the French side was denied to me, the Brit (smuggler) was the only one available.

Edited September 8, 2016 by Bougainville

[Black Spawn]

So the automatic system need readjustement and punishement should be the same for all..

 

But i have a questions for you :

what did you lost in that battle ? did you lost your ship ?

how long did you wait in the battle summary screen to avoid desmoines to attack you the right way ?

 

There arent really so many reoffender who think this is fine as it should be the "same for all". Sailhits happen green on green sometimes - just not in that intentional devestating way. And I am not accountable to anyone. This isnt a discussion its on principle.

 

 

Friendly reminder:  All posts on here should be evidence, accuser, or accused.

Edited September 8, 2016 by Black Spawn