PvP2: Tales of France

[snackbar]

I never once have told my guys in SOB to hide in a port so we can spring a trap or whatever, I honestly had nothing to do with the Vieques ordeal apart from taking Fred and 1 Swedish port, SOB sorta trickled out and focused on defending against the pirates in Haiti.

 

I don't know what you find risky or fun, maybe you guys taking 8 undefended ports in a row is fun and risky to you guys, but for us we wanted to attack defended ports, why SOB stopped overly expanding and only focusing on the area we knew we could successfully operate in without spreading too far out. I can't speak for the other clans.

"Defending against the pirates" 

What pirates?

We literally started attacking you last week.

Edited March 25, 2016 by snackbar

[Sir Robert Calder]

Paint the map blue.

 

Maybe that will cement the fact a server merge is a necessary evil.

[Jackalope]

What's all this? Who cares if some brits left? They probably still have more players than France, Sweden, Norway and the Dutch combined. The server is not dead, there are plenty of fights to be had, go find them.

[PrAyTeLLa]

The server is not dead, there are plenty of fights to be had, go find them.

 

Server is dead.

 

PVP1 you don't have to go find fights anywhere, they're literally outside the port. I'm actually seeing enemy ships in Jamaican waters for the first time in two months.

 

Once you get to U.S or Brit size you realize how big the map is, and the time it takes to get anywhere and do anything. French are about to discover this. I don't know why anyone is surprised about empty ports easily an hour sail for the majority of players, how many ports were defended that the Brits took? I'll give you a hint, not many.

Edited March 25, 2016 by PrAyTeLLa

[Vllad]

I consider myself a more casual player. Started the game on feb 1 and have about 200 hours into it.

Personally, I would love to PVP more, but I simply don't have the time to sail very far every night to do it. My tp is rarely ready so setting up the outpost there didn't do me a lot of good. I don't think I've ever played long enough in one sitting to use my tp twice.

One of the draws to pvp1 that I see is that players don't have to travel as far to get to the fight. At least the Brits don't.

 

 

Just some suggestions.

 

There are two kinds of PVP. The Pirating style that is solo pvp and the group open sea's pvp. If you are part of clan the second style is something you can do regularly.

 

For solo pvp put outpost in free cities with lots of traffic in them. Specifically near capitols or towns with Iron, Silver or Hemp. Go in small boats and hunt traders. This typically brings bigger ships but you can make some cash and certainly draw the attention of a nation once you bounce more than one trader ship. If you go Pickles or Privateers you can typically find lots of cutter action by people just transferring ports thinking they are safe in your basic cutter.

 

You can go with a slightly bigger ship like a Ren and look to take out snows, brigs and Mercs plus trade ships. Privateers and Pickles will give you trouble but again the ship you bring should drive what targets you pick.

 

Again the goal should be to operate in your enemies back yard. You will have far more targets if you spend the time to sail to the right free cities and set up shop. Once your outpost is set up just spend the time patrolling in the enemies back yard. Expecting them to come to you will leave you less satisfied. It also cuts down on travel if you do some recon to watch where traders travel. Just do a little homework and the PVP will pick up for you considerably.

 

For Group PVP again the ships you bring will determine the ships you can attack. Ren's grant you most versatility and what and who you can attack but not necessarily the most targets. You can travel in groups with a Privateer/Pickle Combo and eat little ships or a Ren/Tricom combo to eat big ships.

 

For Group PVP you want to again find a free city with big ship traffic. This means the front lines instead of behind the lines. Watch for when port battles kick off and sail directly there. You can pick off stragglers and watch for where defenders are coming from.

 

In most cases you will where people have outpost's by just sitting outside of an outpost directly and watching traffic. If you don't see any move on.

 

I find that doing a day's worth of recon can generate weeks of pvp. Once your outpost is set up the travel time is almost zero. Once you get rolling their is no reason to go home and you transfer ships by boarding NPC ships and sending them to the front line. Sailing more than one ship to the front line is stupid. People spend way too much sailing because they don't time their teleports around PVP.  

 

If you are teleporting around to get econ crap done than PVP must not be a priority for you. Basically if you want PVP their is a ton to be had. One just has to dedicates ones self to it.

 

Here is a typical Vllad week.

 

On Monday's/Tuesdays I spend time in a free city by the Brits and raid their cargo haulers or hit US players coming down with small ships. On Wednesdays/Friday's I spend time with the clan jumping Brits in big ships. 

 

On Thursdays I typically spend that day doing recon on other targets to see if the enemy has changed its patterns based on the changing map.

 

On the weekends I may do port battles but I primarily just go to the hot spots on and/or around other peoples port battles.

 

I may get a lull in pvp one or two days a week while doing recon but I basically do nothing but PVP the entire week. Their is lots of PVP to be had. You just have to be smart about going to find it and bring the right tools for the right job. I spend minimal time at sea and never have to travel too far to find it. You will be disappointed if your expectation is to leave port and just expect PVP to find you.

Edited March 25, 2016 by Vllad

[Teamski]

Server is dead.

 

PVP1 you don't have to go find fights anywhere, they're literally outside the port. I'm actually seeing enemy ships in Jamaican waters for the first time in two months.

 

Once you get to U.S or Brit size you realize how big the map is, and the time it takes to get anywhere and do anything. French are about to discover this. I don't know why anyone is surprised about empty ports easily an hour sail for the majority of players, how many ports were defended that the Brits took? I'll give you a hint, not many.

 

 

This is exactly the point.  I participated on 6 port raids on PVP2  (an SOB newbie if you will).  NONE were opposed.  Not one pirate or French port we raided North and East of Haiti was opposed in those raids.    We spent hours relocating up to Caro Romano (sp) to see if we could get action in the Keys..... yeah, no.  What the SOB leadership have been attempting to explain is the reality that there was no good action on PvP2. Discussions over the server population made the decision to move completely logical. Right now, PvP2's population at its absolute height matches PvP1's lowest possible ebb.  I can attest to the mass of hours floating around and seeing squat.  It was no fun and when the announcement came up that we were moving....well good riddance!    

 

Why would the SOB drop everything they had accomplished if it wasn't for a legitimate reason?  I mean, come on, we had our Victories, cash, women, everything. We have had to start from scratch and that is anything but a "cowardly" action.  Commodores in cutters is what it was and we are slowly getting our footing.  And you know what, we are getting the action we have been searching for...in spades.  Why would we put ourselves through such pain if we didn't feel that we had to to preserve the clan?  People were walking off out of pure boredom..... but hey, haters gonna hate, I guess.

 

-Ski

Edited March 25, 2016 by Teamski

[Slamz]

Once you get to U.S or Brit size you realize how big the map is, and the time it takes to get anywhere and do anything. French are about to discover this. I don't know why anyone is surprised about empty ports easily an hour sail for the majority of players, how many ports were defended that the Brits took? I'll give you a hint, not many.

 

And yet you never once tried to move into Plymouth, which I guarantee would have started up some action for you. French were grinding around Basse-Terre with no opposition this whole time. You have to be willing to move in this game. Free ports are an excellent way to get into the action of some other area without much hassle.

 

Last night we saw quite a lot of action around the La Tortue area. Pirate vs Brit. Might start being Pirate vs Brit vs French soon. We were diddling around with Cayman Brac for a while too, occasionally teleporting over there and jumping unwary Brits right outside their capital.

 

How to find fights is a basic skill you need to think about and experiment with. Moving to PVP1 might delay your need to learn, but eventually you'll have the same problems you had here.

[Teamski]

 How to find fights is a basic skill you need to think about and experiment with. Moving to PVP1 might delay your need to learn, but eventually you'll have the same problems you had here.

 

 

It is a skill that takes too much time to "master."  What are the odds of having two complete fleets meeting each other at Cayman Brac?  1 in 10?  1 in 100?  How many round trips would be required until you hit that magical moment when the stars align and the gods relent?  Those moments are packed together on PvP1.  In the short time we have been on the server, members of SOB have already had massive clashes (in conjunction with other clans) with pirates, Americans and Dutch right on the doorstep of PR.  There is no way that PvP2 could ever create that type of action....ever.  Have fun plying the seas and enjoy those romantic sunsets with your clan mates.  It really is a beautiful game.....

 

-Ski

[Unsubbed]

This is what I'm hearing

 

'It's easy to get lost in the sea of other Brit players on PvP1.  It's nice to not be the leaders of the Brit Nation anymore because we were so embarrassed by how we were getting our asses handed to us after how much smack we talked.  We liked Britain because it was easy mode; no one could zerg as hard as us or in big ships like we could and everyone thought we were pro.  However, since other factions are now getting some numbers and showing the whole server how mediocre we are, we just want to save what little face Roberts hasn't already lost us by his teenage ravings, and leave.  I mean, were we supposed to like, you know, get better or just have fun even if our strategic goals weren't met?  Congratulate the enemy on a good fight?  That's crazy talk.  Obviously, our exit from PvP2 will go down as the most disastrous thing to ever happen in the history of NA... That's how awesome we think we are.'

 

Did I miss anything?  O yeah, bye Felicia.

[Random]

Can we all please stop pretending that finding fights is complicated? For the most part, we all know where clusters of activity are located on the server. If you go to where the enemy is - there's a fight to be had. It's that simple. Instead of worrying about "defending our territory" and "grinding for levels" go and have some fun - this is a game after all. Stop playing as if this is a turn based strategy game and you have to worry about your territory. Even with the new buildings system there are always ports that are safe from attacks due to their location deep in your territory and if someone attacks your ports while you are away having fun you can either teleport back to defend, retake them later or attack that enemy next and show them how much more fun it is to PvP instead of PvT. Learn to have fun while playing games, gentlemen...

[Bach]

Server is dead.

 

PVP1 you don't have to go find fights anywhere, they're literally outside the port. I'm actually seeing enemy ships in Jamaican waters for the first time in two months.

 

Once you get to U.S or Brit size you realize how big the map is, and the time it takes to get anywhere and do anything. French are about to discover this. I don't know why anyone is surprised about empty ports easily an hour sail for the majority of players, how many ports were defended that the Brits took? I'll give you a hint, not many.

First off, I believe we should all be playing on one huge server. I think it's going to happen. That said, your fooling yourself if you think the problem in finding fights is based on the server. It's based on the players.

Right now your enjoying a lot of action on PVP1 because the Brits there were on the defensive. This means the enemy is on your door step and you can literally step out if port and pvp. That's how the game is for the defender. Since the migration from PVP2 has suddenly popped up the Brit population you should enjoy success on pvp1 as you now suddenly out number what your opponents were prepared for. As time goes by you will begin to push out from the home ports and begin having to sail a lot to pvp. This will be especially true if you continue to use the home ports regularly. If you successful enough you will become dominant and own red dots as far as you can sail in a day. At that point YOU will have transformed pvp1 into the same thing YOU had transformed pvp2 into for yourselves. It really comes down to what the players choose to do with the environment handed to them.

If you want fights on pvp2 or even future pvp1 you have to adjust your play style. Don't take every single port you can. Why? Simple, it does two things. It forces Brits who use the home area to have to sail further to play. Second it just fills the game with more empty PvT battles as no one has the time or set up to defend all that crap all over the place.

Don't be afraid to "spear" your way into enemy territory by island hopping and holding just 1-2 ports in your enemies back yard. Now you only need to be in two locations to find pvp. The closer the spear head gets to the enemy capital or NPC hunting grounds the more pvp you will find. It's taking all the ports creating these huge undefendable fronts that make the game boring or stagnant. So what if you enemy owns a port right next to your home port? Now you don't have to sail all day to find each other.

[Dharus]

Part of the problem was the early consolidation and opening moves. Pirates went mostly east and southeast in masses, US crushed Spain and Pirate areas, Brits gobbled up Spanish and French ports and basically had a NAP with US. That's a whole lot of territory in the middle with nothing happening. Boring.

Pvp1 has a better layout currently with possibly better nation populations being equal.

But these things are corrected by players decisions. I'm glad some pirates split up. Seems the US and Brit populations did as well (poor Spain though).

However, blaming population ruining the pvp is just pathetic. You have arena combat that nobody uses, you have outposts and a teleport to use every 4 hrs (4 fights roughly), you've got obvious contested areas, you've got obvious trading areas, you've got unpopulated nation (spain, danes) that could use bodies to fight, and people still complain.

Sure go ahead and jump servers. Hopefully you guys don't bore them out.

[Slamz]

It should be noted, too, that France's best weeks of PvP involved less than, I'd say, 50 total people on most days. The server may have had an additional 900 people online but they were irrelevant to our fights at the time.

 

50 people is more than enough for a lot of good fights if they are actually playing in the same area and looking for fights.

[Teamski]

50 people is more than enough for a lot of good fights if they are actually playing in the same area and looking for fights.

 

 

 

"If' is right!  50 people coming and going; crafting; fleeting; trading; afk; port raiding; transiting;  etc, etc, etc.......  On a map like this, that is a problem.

 

-Ski

[Arbour]

"If' is right!  50 people coming and going; crafting; fleeting; trading; afk; port raiding; transiting;  etc, etc, etc.......  On a map like this, that is a problem.

 

-Ski

 

Agreed, but makes you wonder what SOB was doing with it's 150 members.

[Teamski]

Agreed, but makes you wonder what SOB was doing with it's 150 members.

 

I dunno where you are getting those numbers.  That would make us about a fifth of the entire population on PvP2.  Maybe at one time......

 

-Ski

[Arbour]

Sons of Britain update members to 150+

 

From Roberts on page 4 of the "PvP 2 Political situation" thread

 

Granted this number is a bit dated, it still begs the question as to what SOB's leadership has been doing with those numbers to keep them entertained.  I imagine that number is significantly lower now do to boredom of defending territory and fleet grinding.  

Edited March 25, 2016 by Arbour

[Teamski]

From Roberts on page 4 of the "PvP 2 Political situation" thread

 

Granted this number is a bit dated, it still begs the question as to what SOB's leadership has been doing with those numbers to keep them entertained.  I imagine that number is significantly lower now do to boredom of defending territory and fleet grinding.  

 

 

......And we complete the circle.  We went to PvP1.  

 

-Ski

Edited March 25, 2016 by Teamski

[Arbour]

But you didn't have to fleet grind constantly.  That is a choice your group made, and that choice was boring and didn't lead to any real fights or PvP.  It is easier to find fights when you are being invaded.  France was there once, and apparently Brits are in the same boat on PvP1.  But if you are the invader, then you can't just sit back in the middle of your territory and except to have fun; only showing up on the borders to mass for PBs and then bug out afterwards.  These are player decisions that affect the experience in the game, not the game that dictates the player experience.  The aggressors on PvP1 aren't sitting back inside their borders and fleet grinding every night from what I hear, but that's what SOB did as "invaders."

[Teamski]

But you didn't have to fleet grind constantly.  That is a choice your group made, and that choice was boring and didn't lead to any real fights or PvP.  It is easier to find fights when you are being invaded.  France was there once, and apparently Brits are in the same boat on PvP1.  But if you are the invader, then you can't just sit back in the middle of your territory and except to have fun; only showing up on the borders to mass for PBs and then bug out afterwards.  These are player decisions that affect the experience in the game, not the game that dictates the player experience.  The aggressors on PvP1 aren't sitting back inside their borders and fleet grinding every night from what I hear, but that's what SOB did as "invaders."

 

 

Well, we are seeing in other clans on PvP1 what we were doing on PvP2.  We see fleets showing up with nothing but 3rd rates and Victories with nobody in position to even come close to competing against.  With PR being a hive, you will definitely get a battle, but elsewhere, well, people are simply going to turn around.  On PvP2, people were complaining that SOB was overpowered and I won't go on about that as it has been beaten to death.  But, we would show up with 20+ ships and that chased people off.  At least on PvP1, once SOB is established and producing ships, those huge battles will happen and it won't be just on our front doorstep before too long.  

 

-Ski

Edited March 25, 2016 by Teamski

[Vllad]

I don't even understand why you guys from PVP2 are even engaging guys from PVP1. They are irrelevant now. They aren't part of our community. Who cares why they quit, they quit. The only people relevant now are those who actually play on PVP2.

[Slamz]

It's a very fragile way to play the game. Really if what you want is open sea PvP action, I see good reason to stop at the Trincomalee (and perhaps some Rens) and sail that forever.

 

What happened at Aves (and later, Fredericksted) really just spotlighted how fragile it is to play your way. At Aves, Brits rolled heavy but got outweighed by so much that they just left the whole area. At Fredericksted the Brits rolled heavy and outweighed the French so much that again the Brits just left the whole area -- they still couldn't get a fight, but now it was for the opposite reason.

 

This style of heavy combat requires a very narrow range of opponent weights to work and I don't know how you can get that without actually arranging it ahead of time with your enemies. "Okay we're bringing 20 ship and 12,000 BR. What are you bringing? Hmm, okay, we'll have 2 people swap down to Frigates and that'll make it more fair. Everyone ready??"

 

 

My prediction is that PVP1 will be no different for you than PVP2 was. You'll end up outgunned by 2x half the time and outgunning them by 2x the other half and that'll be that.

 

I think the real fun to be had in this game is sailing around in fast Trincoms, ideally where both sides are pretty capable of fleeing, in which case the fights that happen are the fights you both want.

 

Otherwise it's going to be a case of one side's 6000 BR slow boat fleet getting crushed by someone else's 12000 BR slow boat fleet and that will probably be the end of PVP1. Same people. Same problem. Same result.

Edited March 25, 2016 by Slamz

[Teamski]

It's a very fragile way to play the game. Really if what you want is open sea PvP action, I see good reason to stop at the Trincomalee (and perhaps some Rens) and sail that forever.

 

What happened at Aves (and later, Fredericksted) really just spotlighted how fragile it is to play your way. At Aves, Brits rolled heavy but got outweighed by so much that they just left the whole area. At Fredericksted the Brits rolled heavy and outweighed the French so much that again the Brits just left the whole area -- they still couldn't get a fight, but now it was for the opposite reason.

 

This style of heavy combat requires a very narrow range of opponent weights to work and I don't know how you can get that without actually arranging it ahead of time with your enemies. "Okay we're bringing 20 ship and 12,000 BR. What are you bringing? Hmm, okay, we'll have 2 people swap down to Frigates and that'll make it more fair. Everyone ready??"

 

 

My prediction is that PVP1 will be no different for you than PVP2 was. You'll end up outgunned by 2x half the time and outgunning them by 2x the other half and that'll be that.

 

I think the real fun to be had in this game is sailing around in fast Trincoms, ideally where both sides are pretty capable of fleeing, in which case the fights that happen are the fights you both want.

 

Otherwise it's going to be a case of one side's 6000 BR slow boat fleet getting crushed by someone else's 12000 BR slow boat fleet and that will probably be the end of PVP1. Same people. Same problem. Same result.

 

 

Perhaps the designers should allow larger ships to battle it out for shallow ports.  Make it so Surps and Cerbs can participate.  Now that would help open up the game a bit more and put more value in at the lower 5th rate level.  Perhaps it is inevitable for all servers to become a PvP 2 at some point and a yearly wipe being done to square the field....who knows?  Right now, PvP1 is rabid with action......

 

-Ski

[Slamz]

Shallow port battles: 6th rates.

Deep water port battles: 1st - 3rd rates.

Open sea PvP: 5th rates

 

That's the reality right now.

 

I think the problem is people either don't understand or just don't want to try 5th rate combat. They try it a few times in the wrong ships (live oak, extra planking, etc), get ganked a few times and that's it. Or they try it rolling so heavy and dense that they can't catch anyone and nobody wants to fight them.

 

Open sea PvP has always been plentiful. Still is. But you have to take the right ship with at least roughly the right fittings and then you get good fights and avoid ganks (and on the rare occasion you get ganked anyway it's not a big deal to lose 1 durability on a 5th rate ship).

 

 

Moving to PVP1 might be a good move for you but you still need to switch mental gears. Rolling around as a pack of 20 heavy ships is just not how you find PvP in this game.

 

Packs of 5th rates is where the action can be found.

[Lord_Howe]

This style of heavy combat requires a very narrow range of opponent weights to work and I don't know how you can get that without actually arranging it ahead of time with your enemies. "Okay we're bringing 20 ship and 12,000 BR. What are you bringing? Hmm, okay, we'll have 2 people swap down to Frigates and that'll make it more fair. Everyone ready??"

 

My prediction is that PVP1 will be no different for you than PVP2 was. You'll end up outgunned by 2x half the time and outgunning them by 2x the other half and that'll be that.

 

I think the real fun to be had in this game is sailing around in fast Trincoms, ideally where both sides are pretty capable of fleeing, in which case the fights that happen are the fights you both want.

 

Otherwise it's going to be a case of one side's 6000 BR slow boat fleet getting crushed by someone else's 12000 BR slow boat fleet and that will probably be the end of PVP1. Same people. Same problem. Same result.

 

Wow... its a miracle... a Slamz post I can sortof agree with

 

No-one, no matter what sort of PvP badass they like to claim they are, wants to fight (and inevitably lose) against insurmountable odds.

One battle every now and then, just for the glory, sure... but not often.

Equally, not many will get fun for very long fighting in a huge fleet that basically cant lose.

 

I'm not sure how the game can get the more even and exciting fights going more often, but that's what it needs in order to have a healthy PvP environment. 

I've seen suggestions that BR ratios be used as a multiplier of the end-battle reward, so that a team that outnumbers their opponent 2:1 gets only 50% of the normal reward while the underdog 1:2 team gets double.

Something like this might be in the right direction to encourage people not to stack teams in combat, but im still not sure how you get the right mix of people in the right area at the same time, short of pre-organized battles.

 

I think POTBS at least made an effort for port battles by inviting players based on their contribution to the conflict (they could then teleport to the battle), and by allowing a long schedule lead time for the fight so that people could make sure they were available. Don't know how you would apply that idea to open sea battles though.