PvP2: Tales of France

[HMCS Warrior]

An active server with 1800+ on during peak times is a whole lot more fun. I am especially looking forward to the challenge of helping Great Britain rebuild on pvp1. We are the underdog. We have many difficult battles and trying times ahead of us. Pvp1 is hard mode. Pvp2 not so much.

[Bach]

I think the servers will merge eventually. They need to get more in line with EVE. Players are going to get into bad situations, boring situations and others. They need to be able to move and find or do new things. However, switching servers is not a great way to do that. What is better is having more game area they can move into and still some day rotate back with all their assets and such in tact.

Let's say pvp 1 server was the Carribean, pvp 2 server in the combine North and Baltic seas, pvp 3 the Mediteranian. You get the idea. If established players the the Carribean become unhappy with the lay of that land they simply move to a fresh sea zone and continue playing. They just sail past Bermuda to a gate like region of the ocean and appear west of Ireland. Maybe the Spanish build up in the Mediteranian while recovering from Carribean loses. Maybe the bored British wage a new war in the Baltic. But they can always return and keep their assets. Better yet there is no magic shifting of powers over night. Players actually move and can be seen moving and appearing. If the Pirates on pvp1 are waging a good balanced war on the British does it really make sense that in one day there can suddenly be twice as many British popping out of thin air? Wouldn't it be better if those migrating British came from somewhere in the same play area like the North Sea zone. This is turn frees up the North Sea zone for Spanish to rebuild etc... It's healthier and more dynamic than server swaps.

Edited March 24, 2016 by Bach

[Slamz]

I want massive fleet battles every night not just on the weekends.

 

Real curious what you were doing to obtain that.

 

Why weren't you pushing ports in Florida? How come you aren't grinding fleets outside of Terra-de-bas on your way to pushing into France? Why weren't you rescuing Spain from the clutches of the Americans? What the heck did you even spend your day doing?

 

There was always a lot of speculation on our end on what the major powers were doing because it was never obvious¹.

 

I have a suspicion that you will not find PVP1 to be any better. Lack of fights was never the problem. PVP2 had tons of combat you could have seen. The problem was a willingness to fight (and not just a willingness to fight very particular types of battles under very particular circumstances).

 

 

 

¹ In retrospect, I'm pretty sure they were grinding NPCs. And probably complaining about how the game was boring and they wish they could get into some fights. Meanwhile, we're sailing past empty British port after empty British port looking to fight players who won't come out.

Edited March 24, 2016 by Slamz

[Lord_Howe]

"My nation was brave.. every one else is a coward"

 

Funny how you hear the exact same thing from every nation, lol 

[Arbour]

"My nation was brave.. every one else is a coward"

 

Funny how you hear the exact same thing from every nation, lol 

 

Well if one side runs away after being beat by a much smaller group, what do you call that?  Actions speak louder than words.  

[Slamz]

"My nation was brave.. every one else is a coward"

 

Funny how you hear the exact same thing from every nation, lol 

 

If the shoe fits.

 

When did Britain ever put up a long, brave fight? As France I know of 3 good times you had a chance:

Once in the southeast, holding ports when the Pirates came down. Britain folded.

Once in the east, attacking Aves once the Pirates had gotten established. Britain folded.

Once in the upper Antilles, doing....whatever the heck you were doing with the Danes and then fighting the French. Britain folded.

 

Not saying you, personally, are a coward. I don't actually know who you are. Maybe you were bravely fighting the U.S. every day for all I know. But I have never personally seen Britain as a team stand and fight a good, long fight. What are your valiant, long term wars and why didn't they work out?

Edited March 24, 2016 by Slamz

[Fletch Hardy]

If the shoe fits.

 

When did Britain ever put up a long, brave fight? As France I know of 3 good times you had a chance:

Once in the southeast, holding ports when the Pirates came down. Britain folded.

Once in the east, attacking Aves once the Pirates had gotten established. Britain folded.

Once in the upper Antilles, doing....whatever the heck you were doing with the Danes and then fighting the French. Britain folded.

 

Not saying you, personally, are a coward. I don't actually know who you are. Maybe you were bravely fighting the U.S. every day for all I know. But I have never personally seen Britain as a team stand and fight a good, long fight. What are your valiant, long term wars and why didn't they work out?

 

 

haha there was like 2 small clans around for your examples, not the nation.

[Lord_Howe]

You really cant help yourself can you?

 

I have seen French players run away just as often... but i dont judge their pixel battle bravery based on it, lol

[Arbour]

 Quite frankly this whole "major British clans running away to another server" is more upsetting for the French than the British.  We have to move our whole operation AGAIN (a logistical pain) to hopefully find a worthy enemy that won't fold after a single day of lost battles.  We were expecting this counter-push to take over a week or more, but instead it's been a matter of a couple days.  Now we got to spend time shifting our outposts further West, in hopes of finding a war that can keep us entertained for longer than a couple days. 

Edited March 24, 2016 by Arbour

[Arbour]

You really cant help yourself can you?

 

I have seen French players run away just as often... but i dont judge their pixel battle bravery based on it, lol

 

Really?  How many French clans have switched servers that you know of?  Yes, not every battle has been won by the French, but one or two or three or four battles don't determine the entire war.  Lose some, win some.  The point is the fight itself, not in who wins or who loses.  Britain, or should I say key clans within Britain, have run away from the fight all together.  Retreating from a battle and folding under the pressure, are two completely different things. 

[Fletch Hardy]

Really?  How many French clans have switched servers that you know of?  Yes, not every battle has been won by the French, but one or two or three or four battles don't determine the entire war.  Lose some, win some.  The point is the fight itself, not in who wins or who loses.  Britain, or should I say key clans within Britain, have run away from the fight all together.  Retreating from a battle and folding under the pressure, are two completely different things. 

 

Sir, I hate to say it, but you can't accurately know why people or clans have done what they have or why they may have moved, could be boredom, could be looking for more fights, don't act like you know everything and make ridiculous statements, you know what they say about assumptions.

[HMCS Warrior]

Real curious what you were doing to obtain that.

 

Why weren't you pushing ports in Florida? How come you aren't grinding fleets outside of Terra-de-bas on your way to pushing into France? Why weren't you rescuing Spain from the clutches of the Americans? What the heck did you even spend your day doing?

 

There was always a lot of speculation on our end on what the major powers were doing because it was never obvious¹.

 

I have a suspicion that you will not find PVP1 to be any better. Lack of fights was never the problem. PVP2 had tons of combat you could have seen. The problem was a willingness to fight (and not just a willingness to fight very particular types of battles under very particular circumstances).

 

 

 

¹ In retrospect, I'm pretty sure they were grinding NPCs. And probably complaining about how the game was boring and they wish they could get into some fights. Meanwhile, we're sailing past empty British port after empty British port looking to fight players who won't come out.

 

This is my perspective from within Sons of Britain. The last month or so there seemed to be a wide division of what we should be doing, continuing to push the attack against the USA, defend our current borders or continue to expand eastward. I believe that the majority felt that Britain had over extended and that it was going to be a struggle to defend our expansive borders. This coinciding with a declining server population. The Pirates re-emerging as a threat from the north. Clans in the east leaving. Seemed that the decision was to stay put and defend. Reinforcing this was our numbers that we had online every day was in decline.

 

Had we pushed the USA in Florida, it is my belief that not only would we have lost the Antilles, we also would have lost Haiti during that last attack on all of British fronts. We just did not have the numbers to extend further as well as be able to defend Haiti effectively.

 

A number of us were going out in shallow and deep water ships looking for open world battles against the US or the pirates. More often than not the result was 2-3 hours of sailing and maybe finding one or two battles or none at all. This was really disappointing. Seriously Slamz, get off the "all they do is grind NPC fleets" assumption. It simply is not true. So is your assumption about Pvp1 Slamz. Cheers.

[Slamz]

haha there was like 2 small clans around for your examples, not the nation.

 

That is part of the question: "where was everyone else?" I see British players complaining about a lack of fights but I don't know what you were doing to get them.

 

I have seen French players run away just as often... but i dont judge their pixel battle bravery based on it, lol

 

This isn't about individual ship combat, but about front lines and major wars. Seriously, what major war have you been in and what went wrong with it? Obviously Britain has not made any big advances in a long time. Why is that?

 

Had we pushed the USA in Florida, it is my belief that not only would we have lost the Antilles, we also would have lost Haiti during that last attack on all of British fronts. We just did not have the numbers to extend further as well as be able to defend Haiti effectively.

 

This seems like the old "good strategic play, bad for morale" type of decision I think has hurt a lot of teams, and which I bet will follow you into PVP1.

 

What France should do right now, strategically:

Buckle down, hold Haiti, grind fleets, level up, don't irritate anyone or make any enemies. That's smart long term pro-France thinking right there.

 

.....but that's hideously dull.

 

What France should do right now, in terms of morale and having fun:

ATTACK ALL THE THINGS. (especially the really big ones)

 

...strategically stupid, but with a remarkable success rate probably because it actually lets us keep our players while teams around us keep imploding.

 

 

Frankly, you should have attacked Florida.

 

If you got beat down on all sides as a result of this, trust me when I say I have been there, done that and it's a lot more fun than playing a smart map strategy. If France had played smart map strategy with the pirates, we'd have about 6 ports right now, pirates crawling up our butts and probably an extinct team or close to it. Sometimes it's the dumbest strategic plan that's actually the most fun and keeps people playing.

 

Not many recognize that.

[Random]

 

What France should do right now, strategically:

Buckle down, hold Haiti, grind fleets, level up, don't irritate anyone or make any enemies. That's smart long term pro-France thinking right there.

 

.....but that's hideously dull.

 

What France should do right now, in terms of morale and having fun:

ATTACK ALL THE THINGS. (especially the really big ones)

 

...strategically stupid, but with a remarkable success rate probably because it actually lets us keep our players while teams around us keep imploding.

 

 

It would be strategically stupid in the real world. In this game, however, there are no soldiers who you can count on to carry out your orders without questions. Instead we have players who demand that precious fun be provided or made available to them. That factor alone was enough to break pirates earlier and should be extremely important in formulating long and mid term strategy. So, if the Brits are gone, let's find something else to attack.

[HMCS Warrior]

Points understood Slamz. I was sincerely pulling for your nation during your war with the Pirates. Happy that it worked for your nation.

 

I found that Pvp2 was quite a bit of fun when we had 30+ SoB online and about 800-900+ on the server. Unfortunately we have not seen those numbers in quite some time. Till such time or a server merge, my fleet of Canadian Warships remain docked in Kingston/Port Royal. My focus has switched to assist in the rebuild the British Empire on PvP1. Good Luck and have fun.

[Ci'Ki]

Perhaps the time has come for everyone to consider a re roll onto pvp 1. Tho whether we should keep our nations as the are is another thing. We can leave this server for the pve fleet grinders that like to feel there is a little risk on a pvp server. Spain on pvp 1 could use a few good players

[Renown]

This is fucking hilarious. Congratulations every british member who rerolled PVP1, you are exactly what is wrong with this game and are reinforcing it's worst qualities.

 

As one of the two largest factions in the game you failed to coordinate more than a bare minimum of times, you failed to bring the battle to anyone when you didn't have overwhelming numbers, when you had overwhelming numbers you failed to prosecute the fight, and then when you get your silly undefended ports taken due to stupid leaders you all just reroll.

 

The whole lot of you are pathetic and I'm happy to have called it out eons ago.

 

The reason why there was NOTHING on PVP2 going on is BECAUSE OF YOU. Blame the smaller nations all you want, but we showed up. Every, Single, Time.

[Lord_Howe]

While you are busy ridiculing everyone else you might want to take a look in the mirror.

 

People are looking for a more enjoyable experience.

...perhaps they want more, or better PvP than you could provide

...perhaps they just want a huge map that isn't mostly empty space

...perhaps the just want to be somewhere that you aren't.

What makes you think you are qualified to judge anyone else's reasons?

What business is it of yours anyway?

 

So sick of seeing the endless flood of immature finger pointing and name calling... no wonder players are leaving in droves.

[HMCS Warrior]

While you are busy ridiculing everyone else you might want to take a look in the mirror.

 

People are looking for a more enjoyable experience.

...perhaps they want more, or better PvP than you could provide

...perhaps they just want a huge map that isn't mostly empty space

...perhaps the just want to be somewhere that you aren't.

What makes you think you are qualified to judge anyone else's reasons?

What business is it of yours anyway?

 

So sick of seeing the endless flood of immature finger pointing and name calling... no wonder players are leaving in droves.

 

THIS!

[Slamz]

Perhaps the time has come for everyone to consider a re roll onto pvp 1. Tho whether we should keep our nations as the are is another thing. We can leave this server for the pve fleet grinders that like to feel there is a little risk on a pvp server. Spain on pvp 1 could use a few good players

 

Nope.

 

If PVP2 becomes impossible to find fights on, I will shelve this game until the next big player surge. Not gonna go start over in cutters just to look for entertainment among the same lamers who quit this server.

 

But first we're on the way over to Haiti to see who wants to fight. We'll hit Cuba, maybe Florida and the Yucatan before we decide this server is dead.

[Lord_Howe]

Nope.

 

If PVP2 becomes impossible to find fights on, I will shelve this game until the next big player surge. Not gonna go start over in cutters just to look for entertainment among the same lamers who quit this server.

 

But first we're on the way over to Haiti to see who wants to fight. We'll hit Cuba, maybe Florida and the Yucatan before we decide this server is dead.

 

And I honestly wish you an enjoyable time.

 

I doubt I'll move either, though possibly not for the same reasons.

 

I'm certainly hoping that we get some improved systems in place (port battles for one) and a new influx of players as the game gets fleshed out.

But I also hope that peoples attitude changes, so that we don't drive any new players away just as fast. 

 

Competitive is fun... anti-social and disrespectful is not. 

[HMCS Warrior]

Started in a Trincomolee that was gifted to me.  Half an hour later had a 3rd rate. Off and running.

[Arbour]

FUN is the only thing of strategic importance in games.  Soldiers do not permanently die, ports don't mean a thing.  If you can't keep your gaming group entertained, then that group is dead.  You can't wait for other groups to come along and make things fun, you have to do that yourself and no server change is going to change that.  Myself and other Frenchmen actually miss the pirate invasion about a month ago.  We were strategically losing, but had a blast.  Honestly, haven't had as much fun in this game since....been trying though.  The pirates giving up was a huge shot to morale of the French, while a strategic victory, it meant that we had nothing fun to do.  Then Brits invaded Sweden ... boom, we rushed in, lost a few times, but had fun.  That died down, so we pressed West, hoping to get a reaction from Britain to give us the fight we are looking for...but alas, now they have folded too.  This is another big shot to morale for the French, cause while we are "winning" it isn't fun.  

 

Too many leaders in this game are risk-adverse.  They play it safe.  But the smart thing to do is be risky...if you lose, then no biggy, but if you win, great!  Playing it safe leads to the potential of losing fights you should have won (not fun) or boredom (not fun).  Risky means that if you win you can have loads of fun and if you lose you can still have fun cause it was a known risk.  Switching servers will not change the experience or make it more fun if you simply do the same safe plays.  

 

This is exactly why Slamz said that some people were ruining the game.  The 2 largest nations were so afraid to lose that they didn't fight each other.  I know some people criticized members of their own nation because they were fighting in strategically risky ways.  Now looks what is happening.  Large groups of players are bored and leaving ... just like was predicted.  People's pride over winning got in the way of having fun, and despite being told what was happening, still didn't see the writing on the wall and simply fired back insults on the forums.  

 

Remember, if you are a clan leader in a game, any game, and your group is not having fun, there is no one to blame but yourself... not the game, not the other groups, only you.  Simply switching arenas will not change that, only a change in leadership will.  

[Lord Roberts]

Here my my opinion on this all.

 

The British and American Clans did not go to PVP 1 because they ran or were scared of the french or pirates or whatever other reason you think is true, the real reason is the population has been dropping badly, near 2-3 weeks ago the server pop was at around 800-900 and even 1k at peak, now it is at around 300-400.

 

Should we stick it out on PVP2 and sail around for hours looking for PVP? Should we be forced to leave when and if a merge finally comes?

 

People have gone to PVP1 because it's more exciting and entertaining, there is constant PVP around nearly every port, which can not be said for PVP2 at all, in PVP1 you can sail anywhere and find an enemy ship to attack.

 

You may believe we were scared and that is the reason people left but that is simply not true, but I can not tell you what you can say so you can believe what you wish. 

 

We have gone to the British on PVP1 which are getting destroyed by the pirates and Dutch, we didn't go over here to join a superior side and dominate all the battles, if we wanted that we would join the pirates which we did not.

FUN is the only thing of strategic importance in games.  Soldiers do not permanently die, ports don't mean a thing.  If you can't keep your gaming group entertained, then that group is dead.  You can't wait for other groups to come along and make things fun, you have to do that yourself and no server change is going to change that.  Myself and other Frenchmen actually miss the pirate invasion about a month ago.  We were strategically losing, but had a blast.  Honestly, haven't had as much fun in this game since....been trying though.  The pirates giving up was a huge shot to morale of the French, while a strategic victory, it meant that we had nothing fun to do.  Then Brits invaded Sweden ... boom, we rushed in, lost a few times, but had fun.  That died down, so we pressed West, hoping to get a reaction from Britain to give us the fight we are looking for...but alas, now they have folded too.  This is another big shot to morale for the French, cause while we are "winning" it isn't fun.  

 

Too many leaders in this game are risk-adverse.  They play it safe.  But the smart thing to do is be risky...if you lose, then no biggy, but if you win, great!  Playing it safe leads to the potential of losing fights you should have won (not fun) or boredom (not fun).  Risky means that if you win you can have loads of fun and if you lose you can still have fun cause it was a known risk.  Switching servers will not change the experience or make it more fun if you simply do the same safe plays.  

 

This is exactly why Slamz said that some people were ruining the game.  The 2 largest nations were so afraid to lose that they didn't fight each other.  I know some people criticized members of their own nation because they were fighting in strategically risky ways.  Now looks what is happening.  Large groups of players are bored and leaving ... just like was predicted.  People's pride over winning got in the way of having fun, and despite being told what was happening, still didn't see the writing on the wall and simply fired back insults on the forums.  

 

Remember, if you are a clan leader in a game, any game, and your group is not having fun, there is no one to blame but yourself... not the game, not the other groups, only you.  Simply switching arenas will not change that, only a change in leadership will.  

If the content is not there that is not the leaders fault, that is either the server you are on that has terrible population or the game itself lacking meaningful content.

Edited March 24, 2016 by Lord Roberts

[Arbour]

If the content is not there that is not the leaders fault, that is either the server you are on that has terrible population or the game itself lacking meaningful content.

 

If it's content then switch servers will not change that, will it?  If it's low server population....why do you think it got so low?  You can say the grind or content, but the truth is that the largest groups just sat around for about a month, only making safe moves and only fighting battles that had guaranteed wins.  That is why the risky French have only seen a roughly 10% drop in population while other nations are losing 50% or more.  All nations play the same game and have the same content, so the real difference is the strategy and the realization that fun is more important than ports. 

Edited March 24, 2016 by Arbour