The AI Poll patch 0.83+

[Nick Thomadis]

Hello Generals,

 

We appreciate greatly the reports you have given so far which helped us to shape up the gameplay to a good level. We need now to focus more on AI matters so that in the next patch we offer an ultimately better AI & Gameplay experience.

 

Please vote for the best AI settings you like to play against and also for the least liked.

If possible write why you prefer or not some AI opponents. Any issue you notice in AI please write it here so we prioritise to fix.

PS.

Obviously the Random AI is not mentioned in the list because it is one of the 9 personalities picked randomly and you do not know which one.

[R.E.B.Blunt]

Determined is the most challenging of all the difficulties. AI will attack my weakness, and launch counter attacks if I repel them. Although AI cannons will charge straight into my lines usually firing one shot before I can rout them. Not all the AI guns will charge me. It is usually the Reinforcement Cannons that will charge, Guns the AI starts with will not charge.

 

Cautious is the weakest of all the difficulties. AI will basically camp entire game. Allows me to flank them or even sometimes turning their flank to my battle line without me even trying. The AI will not close their gaps and allow me to press into the enemy line splitting their army and allow me to cut off and destroy without any counter attack on their behalf.

 

Random is fun sometimes but soon as you find out what personality they are it is easy to counter accordingly. An idea would be for each battle you progress to, a different personality will fight the battle. That could beef up the challenge a bit. So you do not know what to expect from battle to battle.

[CmdrMctoast]

I really dont like voting for least favorite as I feel they all surve a good purpose and allow all levels of gamers to play.

with that said determined is just plain fun to play, all out slugfest.

Cautous is easiest and is bottom pick for me.

 

I do play random most of the time and do like Blunts Idea, as that would make it more realistic as to "you never know

who is sitting over that ridge to counter your attack".

 

Random is fun sometimes but soon as you find out what personality they are it is easy to counter accordingly. An idea would be for each battle you progress to, a different personality will fight the battle. That could beef up the challenge a bit. So you do not know what to expect from battle to battle.

[Don't Escrow Taxes]

 

 

Random is fun sometimes but soon as you find out what personality they are it is easy to counter accordingly. An idea would be for each battle you progress to, a different personality will fight the battle. That could beef up the challenge a bit. So you do not know what to expect from battle to battle.

 

 

I have arrived at this conclusion as well and think it should be an option.  

I still play random every time so I'm shutting up now.

[David Fair]

"Cunning" is the most challenging in my experience - but is still too easy.

"Determined" results in too many AI casualties and drains the AI of infantry early in the game.

Ultimately this makes the results lopsided and increasingly easier as AI casualties rise.

[The Great Dane II]

I'm with REB Blunt and David on this one - even on 'cunning' the game's too easy, but changing personalities between phases would help.

 

To be honest I'v haven't played all personalities yet and will return soon to give a fair vote.

[Beowulf]

I am compelled to agree with David, "Determined" pushes really hard and provides challenge, but results in too many casualties. I finished the battle against "Determined" AI yesterday with this results: http://cloud-4.steampowered.com/ugc/586908646028883407/55826747DD4F75F53DDCB9D70D4C4496474CF237/

AI casualties seem rather high, despite me attacking in one scenario, and later attacking during Seminary Ridge defence.

I have to try Cunning, to see if the AI will preserve it's forces more.

[N.C.rebel]

The way that battle went Beowulf you killed more than half the army of Northern Virginia and ended the civil war right then and there lol

[Beowulf]

Unfortunately, yes. But in "real life" situation Lee would order a retreat when suffering even <20.000 casualties.

I hope I will find time to test Cunning and Dynamic AI to see if the don't overcommit.

[The Great Dane II]

Oh man ... this wote's a pain as it's really difficult to destinguish between all the AI's.

 

(Every game in this session was confederates)

What I can tell though is, that I - for the first time - tried out cautious and opportunist as I earlier on thought those would be boring for a veteran.

BUT I was really pleased and impressed by especially the opportunist AI, which I found made for one of the most realistic battles for me to date...

 

Risky made everything go into Chaos with the Union operating behind my lines with no regards as to defending the Victory points!

But I have to admit, that it did an effective job of breaking my artillery units in the rear.

 

Also: Had a rare crash in 4th session / 1st day and a AI Union unit frozen at the bottom of the map.

[Nick Thomadis]

In the latest version there is a targeting bug that affects AI very negatively and your units as well. 

We will upload today new urgent patch to fix this and other things.

[TheIronKing]

Will have to start playing on a set difficulty yet to play on anything but random should be interesting, looking forward to it!

[Herodotus]

Cautious you'd imagine would be the easiest setting against the Confederates, but as they sit by their cannon wiping out any challenge to VP's it's the least enjoyable. If only the Union weren't so gunshy when it came to capturing artillery batteries (which isn't an option but could and should be...in fact where is the prisoner count?) retreating in the face of one or two solid shot volleys where the South just keep coming no matter the vollies from Union barrels.

[Nick Thomadis]

Please post your impressions for AI after latest patch 0.84!

[Paul_KT]

Played Confeds 1st phase, Dynamic UI.

 

The Union seems much more interested in maintaining a cohesive line, with more retreating from positions to maintain that line.  This gave the impression that the Union was often retreating, almost too quickly.  But the effect was to maintain the army over all and not present any obvious weak points.  The AI seems much more willing to give ground to achieve other objectives, which I really liked.

 

AI attacks seemed more coordinated than before, with both single brigade attacks to tie down units, but critically these attacks did not overextend like before. Instead the Union would launch a cautious single brigade attack and withdraw before losing too many casualties or becoming cut off.   I loved this new behaviour.

 

There were also highly coordinated multiple unit attacks, focused on regaining VP locations or hitting over extended lines.  Overall it felt like the AI was much better at knowing where to spend units and where to be careful.

 

 

The only bad behaviour I saw, and this isn't unique to this patch, is units bunching up making great targets for artillery but blocking each others line of fire.  The AI needs to improve holding units in reserve is there is no space on the front line.  Ideally in a position where they can fill any gaps yet stay out of fire.

[Riekopo]

I have no idea what AI to pick when starting a battle or campaign. There should be a default AI that is already selected and this default AI should reflect the historical personalities of the commanders you're fighting.

[Zelekendel]

Let me preface this by saying that Sid Meier is a genius, really, And his 1996/7 AI for SMG still stands supreme in the real time tactics marketplace, too bad it wasn't applied to any other games

 

That said the AI is not bad at all. It gave me a good challenge when I started playing - and I'm a seasoned wargamer of 20+ years (which I realize is half of what some of the real old grognards here have!) - But it's not vicious - it doesn't strike where I'm most vulnerable, it leaves me a lot of room to maneuver, and is too passive in defense, and too aggressive and direct in offense

 

What I find wins me the battles in defense is active, maneuverable defense, but also with an economy of movement. You have to keep your units fresh

 

I think the AI either tires his units out - or then it keeps fully rested units needlessly in reserve when they could be taking over from exhausted ones or maneuver to flank me.

 

I think there's a lot of potential but the AI isn't quite there yet  - that said it's given me 75+ hours of enjoyment, so I clearly love the game - but at this point what I'm most waiting for is multiplayer. I know I'll get my behind kicked there.

 

HOWEVER, and this is a big point - Darth and the studio have proven that even in early access form, they've created a completely superior AI compared to Creative Assembly's Total War, and that is a mission accomplished for me, and I'd definitely be very happy if Total War had an AI this good.

[Nick Thomadis]

In the next patch we will do some necessary changes according to the remaining issues you report. 

AI should be able to be more eager to charge and take the initiative even to weaker personalities as a human player would do.

The problem is to fine tune this in a way that preserves the strategic feel of the game.

Let me tell you that we can make the AI to sweep everything with charges and create mass chaos that could overwhelm most users but would add more frustration and would affect negatively the realism factor we want for the game.

We will though try to make the AI even more challenging, without adding any cheats.

I remind that this AI does not use any cheats and obviously, even when you win, it causes many casualties to you.

[Paul_KT]

I've noticed playing as the Confederates since the latest patch, I can still win battles, but I'm wrecking my brigades to do it, when means in the next phase I'm really struggling.

I love that I'm now faced with the choice of winning a phase but loosing the battle, or rather accept limited victory points in the the first phase but still have an army left afterwards.

 

This dynamic of not going for victory at any cost is very thought provoking and introduces an excellent persistant campaign feeling

[R.E.B.Blunt]

Just finished a game on Offensive AI. I was Union.

 

My first battle I was able to hold all VP's and even pressed the attack after Rebels became exhausted to capture Herr's Ridge. Four Brigades against my 6 Brigades plus Skirmishers and Cavalry = no contest. Repeated charges with Cavalry and constant fire from the Skirmishers until 1st Corps appeared. Moved the Skirmishers to flanking positions and the rebels could do nothing but fallback. (No idea why people say Confederates get the upper hand on first day. I seem to be able to do just fine).

 

The second battle I allowed the confederates to capture all the VP's except Cemetery Ridge from which I fell back to on purpose. I did not engage any Brigades and allowed my units to fully rest.

 

The third battle the rebels attacked south and west towards the Round Top hills. I never allowed them close. I intercepted the Rebels before they got close. Brought half my cannons to the front line and the other half camped on top of the Hills. Set up multiple lines of defense. When rebels attacked I fell back behind leap frogging my Brigades behind one an other. This drained the enemy of Morale and Conditioning before they could even get close.

 

The fourth battle I decided to attack the Rebel center. The goal was Seminary Ridge. I pressed the attack. The rebels countered with Longstreets Corps. I fell back and brought up all of my Cannons. I placed them all in front of my battle line. In one giant line of Artillery. I let them pound the crap out of the center of the Rebel Army.After a while my guns began to rout from exhaustion, Then I did my leap frog technique and advanced my Brigades one after the other. Pressed the attack after the second Rebel assault pushed past the rebel cannons. Pushed them almost to the edge of the map before the game ended. It was very simple I had no close moments and I was in control the entire time.

 

I won the game in a Major Victory. 12,000 Union Deaths: 19,000 Confederate Deaths give or take a few and the majority of the VP's captured.

 

My conclusion. Though I find it lacking in challenge. No matter what the difficulty I play on the AI is very predictive. I would like to see the AI use the HOLD ability more often. They press the attack but still do not hold the ground. They just advance till they are exhausted and then fall back. If I can keep up the pressure I can push them back indefinitely. As well they are not careful in protecting their flanks and allow me to set up one or two Brigades on their flanks and engage in enfilade fire. This does not last long cause they will then soon run in terror.

 

All said and done I love this game though!

Can't wait for Multi-player. I Just hope you add more than 1v1. I wanna do some Team Battles.

 

"Brigade, Support Arms"

"Brigade, Fix Bayonets"

"Brigade, Support Arms"

"Brigade, Right Shoulder Shift"

"Brigade, forward march"

"Brigade, Port Arms"

"Brigade, At the quickstep"

"Brigade, CHARGE!!!!!!!!"
 

[Nick Thomadis]

In next patch AI will be much more active. Key aspect is to make Union AI able to hold Cemetery Hill in 1st day with larger probability without making the Union side overpowered.

[subunit]

Just bought the game and played through 3 battles in quick succession, against one random Confederate AI (would be nice if it told you at the end of the battle which one you were fighting), one Dynamic Union AI, and one Determined Confederate AI. I trounced the AI in all three battles, with Decisive, Epic, and Decisive victories respectively. There are still some pretty glaring issues with the AI- the Dynamic Union AI, for instance, made no effort to take Round Top in the last day of battle, leaving it totally open to me. It was generally quite passive. The determined and random Confederate AIs were a bit more active but they spent a lot of time moving their units around in coverless valleys under the fire of my units on ridges and didn't get much done as a result. By the last phase of the battle against the Decisive Confederate AI (Union counterattack), I was literally just grouping 6-12 union brigades together and throwing them at the confederate lines, eyes glazed and paying no attention to terrain or tactics, and I still managed to mop the floor with them.

I don't have many bright ideas on how to improve the AI, but I think some of the mechanics make it difficult for the AI to play effectively- in particular the rout/morale mechanics are incredibly forgiving and with more than a handful of units on the map it rarely mattters if a few of them are routing, as you'll rapidly get command back. Absent any kind of surrender mechanic, I think routs need to be far more punishing, units need to become completely shattered and irrecoverable for the day if you really mess up. It doesn't make much sense to me that you can look at a unit with <10%morale, 0% condition, etc, and not really be worried about losing that unit even if they're totally surrounded. I was often making pretty bad positioning/movement errors and the AI just couldn't exploit them. As things stand, I found the primary challenge on defense was just shuffling units around on the line to maintain local numerical superiority to the AI's usually telegraphed attacks, while on attack it was just keeping everyone actually moving forward instead of shuffling away after firing a single volley.

In general I think I got my $10 worth, and I had fun with the game, but there's a lot of unrealised potential here. The AI is sometimes doing clever things, and there are moments of tension (particularly if you're not aware of the reinforcement schedule- I'm not sure how randomised this is), but even at the highest settings the AI seems to be struggling.

[Nick Thomadis]

Subunit thanks for the feedback. Can you please clarify which version you played? Patch 0.85 became available before some hours so I assume all the battles were played with older patch 0.845?

[subunit]

I bought it ~5 hrs ago, just finished playing. I've got .85 installed at the moment, and I don't recall seeing any update between the initial install and the various games I played, so I think they were all on .85. FWIW, the Union AI seemed to be struggling the most, the Confederate AI was more active. If I run into stuff like the AI failing to take Round Top or whatever again, is there some way to get the game state to you so you can have a look at what's going on?

[Nick Thomadis]

5h ago we had not the new patch. So please whenever you can, play test more to check AI in new patch. Just for info, in any game, an Update may be delayed by Steam. You need to either restart Steam or validate game integrity to update it instantly when patch is live. Patch version is visible in main menu so you will understand which version you have now on.