Malachi

Tachen zusammen Nachdem ich schon länger hier angemeldet bin, sollt ich mich mal 'offiziell' vorstellen. Gestatten, Malachi, seines Zeichens Hobby-3D-Schiffebastler und interessiert an allem, was die französische Marine betrifft. Ingame wird man mich vorerst nicht sehen, muss erst meinen PC wieder auf Vordermann bringen. Aber bis dahin kann ich ja schon mal die ganzen guides lesen, die von der tollen com hier bereits zusammen gestellt wurden. Man sieht sich

There isn´t much to find, I´m afraid The info about her service history is from the 'Dictionnaire des bâtiments de la flotte de guerre française de Colbert à nos jours', a more detailed account on her actions and commanding officer at the Battle of the Lizard can be found the 'Histoire militaire du Regne de Louis Le Grand' (1726). And she´s mentioned in a rather strange place, the 'Histoire des Mathematiques' (1802). Okay, it´s not as strange as it sounds, as the chapter deals with the use of advanced mathematical methods to improve ship construction. The author complains about the fact that although Pangalo made vessels with all the desired qualities (refering to Le Lys, 74 guns), he also made a secret of his design principles and thus impeded the overall progress of french ship building ([...]. On vit aussi l'Amazone, le Jason, qui feroient même à présent de trés bon voiliers; mais on faisoit un secret des plans et des moyens de construction. [...]) She packed quite a punch as demi-batterie, yes But I´m building her after the rebuild/refonte, so she´s 'just' a 8-pounder frigate* like the Renommée (*cough* and the historical Surprise/Unité *cough*) Way ahead of her time in the 1720s/1730s, but a quite common ship type in the late 1750s. * her armarment as a frigate isn´t mentioned anywhere, I can only assume that she carried 8-pounders based on the size of the gunports and the distance between them.

Plan (from the Riksarkivet, Kopenhagen) Service history Designed by Blaise Pangalo (also known as maître Blaise) at Brest Keel laid down: 09. 1706 First Commissioned 10. 1707 21.10. 1707 Battle of the Lizard/Bataille d'Ouessant (I linked the english and the french wiki entries) Capture of the Ruby, 50 guns, and several merchant ships 1708 Cruise to the Azores, again as part of the escadre Duguay-Trouin, taking three prices 1711 Expedition to Rio de Janeiro 1712 Return to Brest 1728 Cruise to Tripoli, Bombardement of Tripoli 1741 hulked at Brest 1748 broken up Dimensions ( as demi - batterie, in pied de Roi) Length 118' Breadth 31'6'' Depth in hold 13'6'' Armarment Gundeck 6, later 8* 12 pounders Upper Deck 26* 8 pounders Forecastle and Quarterdeck 8* 4 pounders Dimensions (as frigate) Length 118'9'' Breadth 32' Depth in hold 13'8 1/2'' Armarment Upper Deck 26* 8 pounders Forecastle and Quarterdeck ? A couple of words about Blaise Pangalo, as he was quite an illustrious and mysterious figure: Originally from Venice, he went to France to work as a shipwright and was 'discovered' by Admiral de Tourville in the late 1670s. With this kind of patronage and his exceptional talents , he quickly rose through the ranks and finally became master shipwright at Brest, the most senior position in the hierachy of french naval engineers. While in french service, he designed and built at least 23 vessels, including five first rates. Pangalo´s ships were famed for stability, speed and weatherliness and his work had an huge impact on french ship design and provided a major influence for Blaise Ollivier, one of the most eminent figures in 18th century ship building ( and he built 'our' Renommée, by the way). Pangalo - most probably - died in 1714 in Brest, although it´s possible that he faked his own death in a rather creative effort to escape substantial financial troubles and contined working in Russia under Peter the Great until 1719. L'Amazone was one the first demi-batteries, 'designed specifically for commerce raiding' (Sailing Ships at War, Howard), with a fully armed upper deck and half a tier of guns on the gun deck. It´s not clear when the rebuilt took place, but given the service history of L'Amazone, I think it´s safe to assume that it happened either under the supervision of Joseph Ollivier, Blaise´s father, as master shipwright at Brest or in the early years of B. Ollivier´s tenure at the same post. In either case, she was one of the very first steps in the evolution of the 'true' frigate. Sources: Ships and Shipbuilders: Pioneers of Design and Construction, Walker, 2010 18th Century Shipbuilding: Remarks on the Navies of the English & the Dutch. Olliver, 1737, edited by Roberts, 1992 Snau and Fregat: Small Cruisers in the Danish Navy 1650 - 1750, Auer, 2008 Vaisseau de 64 cannons Le Fleuron, Boudriot/Delacroix, 1995 WIP pics As the plan leaves much to be desired, I have to do things a bit differently this time (read: oldschool) and build the ship from the ground up. The 'frames' aren´t the actual frames, just the station lines with the thickness of the planking already added, should serve as a nice visual aid to determine the final hull shape. The stuff not depicted on the plan (e.g. positions/dimensions of the masts, a proper deck plan) will come from contemporary treatises and tables. This is going to be fun

Maybe I misunterstood your definition of 'big ships'. For me, it´s everything above a 5th/ small 4th rate, starting with 60 gun SoLs, maybe. And Denmark had a lot of those, as did Sweden, although to a lesser extent (including 8 ships with an guncount above 80)

You´re kidding, right? Denmark built 93 ships of the line between 1700 and 1820 (including 5 1st rates), Sweden 68. Shouldn´t be hard to find a 'special' big ship for these factions...

Paints also protected the wood from wind/water and were applied at regular intervals, even on expanded voyages. So the faded look wouldn´t last long.

http://www.itv.com/news/meridian/update/2015-08-19/a-pink-paint-job-for-hms-victory/ "It´s not the colour we were expecting when we started out on this" yeah, right...

Oh my....

26*12-pounder on the upper deck, 6*6-pounder on the quarterdeck

18 pounders on a ship with that kind of tumblehome? Interessant. And there were very few cases where an upgrading from french 8-pounders to british 12-pounders did happen (e.g. Ambuscade of 1744 or Bellone/Repulse), but I don´t think a switch form 12 to 18 pounders was possible, at least not without severly damaging the structural integrity of the ship, not to mention the sailing characteristics.

The ingame model is the 12-pounder Belle Poule of 1765. The 1806 Belle Poule was a Venus-Virginie class 18-pounder by Sané, so either GL messed up their research or it´s for balance purposes until we get a proper french 18 pounder vessel (would prefer a design by Forfait, though). While we´re at messed-up research/balance, does the Renommée still have these ridiculous stern chasers on the upper deck?

Its the Eendracht of 1769, a 24 gun frigate. The small ports on the gundeck are for oars, pretty much every dutch 5th or 6th rate had those. length : 124' breadth: 34' 0" Wrecked in 1786.

goddamit CA, that´s hot indeed. Swedish is correct, the year is correct and although Chapman isn´t mentioned as the designer of this ship class (Sohlberg is), I´m 99% sure it´s one of his. But I didn´t use the plans posted in the shipyard, I had a copy from the swedish naval museum

And hopefully, this gets restricted to 'modern' ships. Upgrading a vessel like the Bonne Citoyenne from 18 6-pounders to 18 32-pounder carronades is all fine and dandy, a Renommee with 26 carronades would be the immersion killer of the century.

Thanks, Wind!! I summarise the information I gathered about the Amazon/Panthère tomorrow so you can update the OP

Thanks That´s because she´s her little sister, same shipyard, same designer and launched in the same year. Hull shape´s a bit different, though, and she´s 11 feet shorter. Armarment was 20 french six-pounder.

*blowsthedustoffthismodel* Stern is heavy WIP (again), those baroque shapes are driving me crazy...(again)... If there´s interest, I can make a seperate WIP thread with additional info (history, dimensions, sailing report etc.) about this cute little ship.

Hehe...no, it´s not the Shtandart.

The 'Niger-Class' Alarm of 1758? No. And 'my' ship never served under the Union Jack.

Uh, it´s getting closer...wrong gun count for the Richmond, though. And the Unicorn was a french design (well, kind of), so I would have lied in my reply to maturin

Good looking ship! The only problem is that the body plan doesn´t show lines above the whales, resulting in a lot of guess work if someone wants to model it

And the bb on french frigates (usually) was more of a small 'step' compared to what could be found on english and dutch vessels. Sorry, maturin, not a french design. The 24 12-pounder Gracieuse of 1750 would have been tempting, though.

Uh, which one? But no, neither of the amercian Bostons had a beakhead bulkhead (the only US Navy ship with a bb was Confederacy, if I remember correctly). The Boston of 1747 had one, but she never carried 12-pounders on her gundeck. Anyway, nice guess

Something to keep me occupied until we get an official statement regarding user created content: And to keep you occupied as well, we´ll play a little 'guess the ship´s name` As there´s not much to see at the moment, a small hint: she carried 12-pounders during her rather long carreer.

Nicht wirklich Shanties, aber trotzdem sehr schön an zu hören: Nu aba ein richtiges Shanty: