LeBoiteux

while many complain about afk sailing 🙂. Now : It makes you more watchful in OW and add content in it. Moreover, AI will attack only :

Si quelqu'un a fait la même chose pour le pavillon blanc du Roi, ce serait cool qu'il le partage. Je n'ai pas encore eu le temps de regarder comment on mod le drapeau.

NPC chasing abilities improvements + NPC aggression are great and long awaited news.

+ 1. Everything seems really great ! Will it be available to 7th (and 6th?)-rate warships to encourage their use in OW ? + 1. Great news. That's the last time I will ask it : will there be the French monarchic all white ensign ?

Let's imagine there are 30 available ship DLCs from say 7th to 5/4th Rates in Steam store. I mean ships with the same characteristics than those in-game (to put aside any debate about DLCs being OP or not). What would be the impact on in-game Economy ? PvE : because of the high Survivability, PvE-ers don't buy many ships. Thus, their using DLCs has almost no impact on Economy. PvP : because of the low Survivability, PvP-ers need a lots of ships to play. If each PvP-er uses his 30 DLC ships per day, the Economy = 0. Thus, to protect in-game economy, the number of DLC ships usable to PvP each day must be limited. A player can buy 30 DLC ships. Each day, he can use them all to PvE but only "x" of them to PvP. That way, casual gamers could PvE/PvP every day. And the implementation and financing of (a lot of) new ships could be done, without ruining the Economy. IMHO, it is a compromise solution to please everybody, because I think the following model is very good : (As far as I am concerned, I am for 1000 ship DLCs usable every time, everywhere, from 7th to 1st Rates 🙂 )

Looking forward to the upcoming Delacroix' monograph on L'Egyptienne (1799) to have his point of view on the Revolutionary/Empire paint schemes. btw I don't know what is said on the subject in the monograph of Le Cygne (1806).

@Surcouf On the wonderful pics and vids you kindly posted here, the red paint used on the replica of L'Hermione looks very light (French would say 'flashy', 'clair') compared to the red ochre that can be seen on some paintings and on Boudriot's books (see spoiler). When Boudriot talks about colors of the XVIIIth century French paint schemes, he uses the French term 'terne' (dull in English ?), except, of course, for the Azure ('bleu azur') when it is used and the Naples yellow that imitates gold. (btw, you who sail her will be able to tell us if there's any difference between the reds on the pics and on the RL ship.) My question : from what you know, is the red of the replica the same color as the one on the original one ? How did the rebuilders choose this red (contemporary evidence, personal preference...) ? Was there big differences between the reds used on XVIIth century ships, depending on shipyards or whatever ? Are there contemporary paintings showing light red ? As you may know, I'm interested in this subject. Any info would be welcome.🙂 Thx for your contribution on this thread.

Tous les nouveaux venus devront rejoindre un clan pour terminer le tutoriel et obtenir les récompenses. Donc, ils sont censés démarrer le jeu, en étant cocoonés / protégés.

Unfortunately I won't be able to translate in english and in detail the paint scheme of La Créole (a matter of vocabulary). However, along the same lines, Boudriot writes about this ship (built in 1827) and thus about the paint scheme(s) of the Bourbon Restoration (p. 100) : "Compared to the customs of the Ancien Regime and even of the Empire, we observe a real (significant) change with the (complete) abandoning of the traditional ochres. The black is everywhere with the white and the green, the only touch of whim ('fantaisie' in French) that will disappear, in turn, in 1835 - 1840."

Description of the paint scheme of La Créole, corvette of 1824 (Boudriot, p. 100) : the only things that can be painted in vermillon (red) are the gunports. They can also be painted in black : "Le tour des sabords en rouge vermillon ou en noir, les mantelets ou faux-sabords en noir en dehors". The other colors used on La Créole are the black, white and green (vert de mer ou vert empire) or light yellow.

Too bad for us. I for one would have been very interested in looking at a couple of meaningful Revolution/Empire examples. For my instruction. This history section is made for that. And this thread too... That's what I've begged for since post#5. However, you gave us a good list to start with (Antoine Roux's paintings and the Trianon models). Thx and Cheers 🙂

No generalization here when I write in this thread 'loss of interest' or 'phase-out of the ochres, especially the red ochre' during the Revolution/Empire. But maybe a mistake when translating Boudriot's statement : "A partir de la Révolution, la tendance est à l'abandon des ocres, surtout l'ocre rouge, ceci se confirme sous l'Empire. (L'ocre rouge) est pratiquement ignoré sous la Restauration". What is clear in Boudriot's words is that the Revolution/Empire period is a transitional phase when red ochre is less used, also a period of 'mixing', ie when 'no generalization' can be made. A period when it is worth observing individual cases. That's why I asked if you could post paintings made during the Revolution and First Empire periods. To look at them... But if you disagree with Boudriot, time for you to develop your argument, show strong evidences.... This thread is here for that. btw Boudriot knew Antoine Roux's paintings and the Trianon models.

Reconstitution of the paint scheme of a French light frigate (applicable to La Panthère, in accordance with Boudriot's recommendations) La Dauphine, 1703 (22x 8-pdr + 6x 4-pdr) (Source : Boudriot, History of the French Frigate, p. 64) wreck found near Saint-Malo (France), alongside with L'Aimable Grenot (1749) See plans, 3d reconstitution, vids by French Archaeologists : here.

@Wagram ^ Indeed, this is an extract of Boudriot's (copyrighted) article mentioned in OP. Some paintings made during the Revolution and First Empire periods, clearly showing the loss of interest in the ochres, especially the red ochre ?

OP updated

OP updated with more pics.

French paint scheme(s) ? I came across representations of that similar paint scheme on several kinds of French warships built between 1693 and 1787, a paint scheme French specialist Boudriot describes in several of his books : Le Saint-Philippe, 90-gun ship, 1693 (J.-C. Lemineur) L'Aurore, light frigate, 1697 (Reconstitution Lemineur) La Dauphine, 28-gun light frigate, 1703 (here). Video of her 3d model : Le Louis XV, 110-gun ship, 1720, (Musée de la marine) M. de Gennes de La Chancelière, Le Penthièvre, ship of the French East India Company, drawn at La Praya in 1743 (SHD Toulon) La Renommée, 9-pdr frigate, 1744 (from Boudriot's book) Le Comte d'Artois, fluyt of the French East India Company (Museum of Lorient) J. Vernet, 20-gun Corvette, 1758 L'Hermione, 12-pdr frigate, 1779 A 74-gun ship, 1780 (Boudriot) Le Rochefort, yacht, 1787 (G. Delacroix) My question : Was this paint scheme : historic ? If so, was it used : often/always ? on warships only ? Also on trade ships ? Also on the ships of the East India Company ? over what time period ? 16th-17th-18th centuries ? Till the Revolution ? After the Revolution ? only by one or a few shipyard(s) ? Are there other historic paint schemes used by the French Navy ? Any help and examples (convincing paintings...) would be welcome. 🙂 An answer in J. Boudriot, La couleur dans la marine classique, Neptunia n° 148 : Basically, in brief (for more info and a color chart, see Boudriot's article) : during the Ancien Regime (till c.179x) : underwater part of the hull in off-white ; topsides in black and yellow ochre ; red ochre for the interior paintwork ; Naples yellow for the sculpture. See this paint scheme above. On XVIIIth century paintings, those colors are dull (see Vernet's marine above). + sometimes an expensive blue on the upper part of the topsides (see L'Hermione) during the Revolution and more again during the 1st Empire (179x-1814) : phase-out of the ochres, especially the red ochre, in favor of the black and white. during the Bourbon Restoration and Louis-Philippe 1er (1814-1848) : use of the (sad) black and white only (see below). Favorite, 24-gun corvette, 1829 (Musée de la Marine) Bibliography on French paint schemes : J. Boudriot, The 74-gun ship, vol. 2, p. 88-89 J. Boudriot, La Renommée, p. 83 J. Boudriot, La couleur dans la marine classique, Neptunia n° 148 R. Portanier's thesis Musée de la Marine

Une dernière info sur la monographie de l'Aurore : une version traduite en Anglais vient de sortir (ici) et comme elle présente l'histoire des frégates légères de 1661 à 1750, elle peut intéresser certains sur le forum.

L'Aurore Light frigate, 1697-1716 Shipbuilder : Cochois at Le Havre (France) Armament : 18 x 6-pdr + 4 x 4-pdr (22 guns) Dimensions : 92'0'' x 24'8'' x 9'0'' (French ft) Ship models : here and here. Monograph (with plans, history of the light frigates from 1661-1750) : new in English, here. Excerpt : here. Other source on the Light frigates : Boudriot, History of the French frigates, p. 52-66 Very nice !!! 🙂

Elle est mignonne !!! 😍 18 x 6-pdr + 4 x 4-pdr Maquette : http://5500.forumactif.org/t2995-l-aurore-fregate-legere-par-un-modeliste-russe Autres couleurs : https://ancre.fr/1004-large_default/monographie-fregate-legere-l-aurore-1697.jpg

Merci, j'avais complètement zappé cette mono. Il faut dire qu'il y a des mono sur trois Aurore différentes. En fait, je pensais à un modèle plus récent, de pratiquement un demi-siècle. 🙂

ça peut pas être un copain à Napo ? (= un navire d'une puissance alliée qui... mouille... à Toulon) Le Danemark au hasard ou le grand duché de Machin Bidule (Je sens que je vais me faire souffler dans les bronches 😁)

Toujours d'après le même site, en septembre 1810 (donc trop tard pour le dessin de Roux), plusieurs vaisseaux de ligne hollandais sont également incorporés temporairement dans la Marine impériale suite à l’annexion du Royaume de Hollande par l’Empire français, dont cinq vaisseaux de 64 canons : Le Dogger Bank, Le Jean de Witt, Le Rotterdam, Le Tromp (ça ne s'invente pas !) et de l’Utrech.

J'ai regardé vite fait sur threedecks la liste ci-dessus. Le site a pour référence : Winfield (French warships in the Age of Sail) et le Gruppo Modellistico Trentino di Studio e recerca storica. Le résultat : seuls le Robert (ex-Eole), le Banel et le Frontin (ex-Médée) auraient eu 64 canons (Le Frontin aurait eu plusieurs configurations : 64, 70...). Pour le Banel, on perd sa trace en 1802. Les deux autres restent présents après 1806. Donc, globalement le même résultat qu'avec Demerliac. https://threedecks.org/index.php?display_type=show_ship&id=24953 https://threedecks.org/index.php?display_type=show_ship&id=2217 https://threedecks.org/index.php?display_type=show_ship&id=2277

Selon ce site : "Lors de la prise de Venise, en 1797, par l’armée d’Italie commandée par le général Bonaparte, plusieurs navires vénitiens sont incorporés dans la Marine française sous le nom des généraux tués durant la campagne d’Italie : Dubois, Causse, Robert, Banel, Sandos, Frantin, Laharpe, Beyraud, Stengel. Les frégates quant à elles prennent le nom de différentes victoires remportées par Napoléon Bonaparte en Italie : Mantoue, Leoben, Montenotte, Lonato, Lodi, Rivoli." Dans cette liste se trouve peut-être un navire de 64 présent à Toulon en 1806. Une information à vérifier et une piste à creuser... NB 1 : selon le site, "il semble que ces navires n’ont jamais véritablement servi dans la Marine française". D'ailleurs, le Beyrand ou le Stengel, par exemple, semblent avoir été cédés à l'Autriche dès 1799. NB 2 : parmi ces navires, il y aurait ceux que les français ont terminés (comme le Beyrand ou le Stengel) et ceux qui ont été capturés à quai (terminés et donc déjà baptisés par les Vénitiens).