[PVP2] Server "Health"

[Lord_Howe]

And last night was another perfect example. The Brits attacked Fredericksted with over 10,000 BR -- average BR for them was about 450. French actually showed up with 21 defenders but only about 5000 BR -- sorry, but that's really the best we can do at our rank. So the Brits quickly killed the towers and won. It could have been a great fight, 25 v 21, but the Brits literally leveled their way out of PvP. I have to imagine that was a pretty boring night for them, capping off a pretty boring month. (I don't think anyone sunk on either side. It was over that fast. I was hitting a 3rd rate with no armor and the fight ended faster than his ship could fill with water.)

 

While I don't altogether disagree with your position, i do find it rather hypocritical.

There used to be only a couple small Brit clans in the East, and for the most part we were having great little skirmishes with the Swedes, with them usually having a modest BR advantage (modest enough that folks on both sides could still enjoy the fights).

Then you and the French turn up with huge BR fleets to try and stomp on us. You always claim you want great PvP, but you never let it happen yourselves... and then you complain when the other side return the favor.

 

You actually did have the BR in the area to mount a defense at the port last night, but chose not to commit it all.

I'm not really a fan of these huge battles myself, but you failed not because you couldn't defend, but because you chose caution.

Rather than just point out the negative though, I'll offer my observation...

PvP as it stands right now, massively favors the overpowered side. With the increase in Gold and XP for kills and assists it has become even more beneficial to ensure you are on the winning side in an engagement (because as we all know, in most one sided battles the loser gets few if any kills). The weaker side will almost always lose, and gets barely anything as a result. They also suffers the loss of ships.

Add to that the often toxic nature of the chat from the team that is winning not because of any skill, but simply numbers, and you have an environment that actively discourages PvP from anything but the most hardcore player (and they are the ones forming ever larger fleets to ensure the win). The PvP game is not likely to thrive if it doesn't encourage the more casual player to participate.

No captain would be rewarded for squandering limited resources in fights against much weaker opponents. Perhaps the rewards should be weighted by the sizes of the two teams, or more emphasis given to doing well despite being at a disadvantage in a fight. The very best rewards should be given for emerging victorious against a superior foe.

[Bach]

This is what im worried about. I know the devs are keeping pretty firm in their stance on what this game will be but ive seen to many games ruined by squeeky wheels and then they quit anyways.

Exacly and I have seen the same over the past 20 years. You either build a game to pvp or you build a game to PVE. The best you can hope for is to offer one server for each crowd and hope they stick too it. The cross over players tend to herald in a games destruction more so than pvp or PVE players.

Cross overs are the restriction PVPrs that don't fit into pvp or PVE. I tend to call them gladiators. These are the guys that think every pvp fight should be fair. If it's not fair they start whining up a storm in the forums insisting on restrictions placed into pvp so they don't get ganked on open world pvp. Far worse than PVE players. Give a PVE player his own server and he is happy. The gladiators always feel they MUST change the pvp open world to fit their arena fight style version of pvp elitism. The funny part is that they are really limited PVPrs.

I first came across this concept in Ultima online. This pvp elite ace in my guild was supposed to be training me. Inside the confines of a tower walls he had no equal one on one. So we go out into the dungeons to "patrol". We come across a guy harvesting ore from an enemy guild. He quickly kills him. Then we go into a dungeon where we get ambushed by a player who kills us both. Coming out of that we walk into 4 players that kill us.So then later in another dungeon where we meet up with four more of our guild. We go hunting the guy that ambushed us and find him in another dungeon. He uses the terrain to divide us, drags us through mobs that agro on us and ends up killing all 6 of us by himself. So my guild elite pvp ace begins complaining constantly that the game is broken. You either always get jumped by greater numbers, the mobs agro to easy or whatever else to explain his overland pvp losses. He would be perfectly happy if every battle took place 1v1 in the confines of the tower walls. So I quit the guild and he asks me why. I tell him it's because he is a gladiator and I want to be a soldier. So I go find that guy that ambushed us and ask him to teach me to pvp no matter the terrain, the numbers or the weapons. Best move I ever made in gaming.

Edited March 14, 2016 by Bach

[Black Knight the first]

While I don't altogether disagree with your position, i do find it rather hypocritical.

There used to be only a couple small Brit clans in the East, and for the most part we were having great little skirmishes with the Swedes, with them usually having a modest BR advantage (modest enough that folks on both sides could still enjoy the fights).

Then you and the French turn up with huge BR fleets to try and stomp on us. You always claim you want great PvP, but you never let it happen yourselves... and then you complain when the other side return the favor.

 

You actually did have the BR in the area to mount a defense at the port last night, but chose not to commit it all.

I'm not really a fan of these huge battles myself, but you failed not because you couldn't defend, but because you chose caution.

Rather than just point out the negative though, I'll offer my observation...

PvP as it stands right now, massively favors the overpowered side. With the increase in Gold and XP for kills and assists it has become even more beneficial to ensure you are on the winning side in an engagement (because as we all know, in most one sided battles the loser gets few if any kills). The weaker side will almost always lose, and gets barely anything as a result. They also suffers the loss of ships.

Add to that the often toxic nature of the chat from the team that is winning not because of any skill, but simply numbers, and you have an environment that actively discourages PvP from anything but the most hardcore player (and they are the ones forming ever larger fleets to ensure the win). The PvP game is not likely to thrive if it doesn't encourage the more casual player to participate.

No captain would be rewarded for squandering limited resources in fights against much weaker opponents. Perhaps the rewards should be weighted by the sizes of the two teams, or more emphasis given to doing well despite being at a disadvantage in a fight. The very best rewards should be given for emerging victorious against a superior foe.

 

 

Allow me to expound upon your commentary here- keep in mind that I honestly bear you no animosity despite the back and forth commentary - to me that's part of any game.  As chats go, I've found this to be one of the least annoying games for it.  I don't really care to resort to half-hearted personal insults today, so I'm going to be as level with you in this post as I can.  If it gets rambly, It's been a long day at work, so bear with me please.

 

There are two primary clans of French rolling in that area, supporting our Swede allies.  We work together pretty well, and you'll see some overlap.  The third major French clan is in and out of the area.  Now, as far as rolling heavy: OMG, my clan, tends to roll heavy.  We have the ships for it, and that's what we do.  Purge runs smaller, right now, because they haven't put in the time grinding for fights like we had previously.  That's okay- they're damned good fighters too.  Now: we like to fight.  We generally attack and fight what we see floating around an area.  Our prime times line up; so we're often grouping together, working together, because again, that's kind of what we do.  Now: we like PVP.  We like to fight.  But what we don't enjoy is the dock-sitting reinforcement-ganking that we so often see you use.  No worries, as the game stands- that's part of the mechanics of it.  Y'all got me once with it, and y'all smoked my Frig when I was outnumbered by yours.  Such is the nature of the game.  You win, and you lose.

 

Now, we're in the area, because that's where the fight is at.  There's been a lot of back and forth acrimonious posts; I generally tend to try and keep it light hearted - this is a game after all, and hey, nobody's shooting at me for real.  But frustrations come up, and sometimes, as they say, shit happens.  

What happened last night as far as the port battle is that some of our guys either couldn't commit, or had to bail due to circumstances.  Again, shit happens.  No big deal.  It's a game, I'm sure we'll fight some more.

 

As it goes: timeline of events looks like this, at least from my perspective.  I'm sure some of my French brethren can further expound upon the situation as needs dictate:

 

OMG re-rolls French, initiates what is called the Pirate Red Wedding.  Fun is had by all.

 

We join the fight in the southern bay for a while, slowly re-securing our ports there.

 

The French has some breathing room; we initiate resecuring the Antilles as blue.

 

As we do so, LMN goes to poke around Louisiana, since the US started taking our ports up there.  Purge and OMG start kicking around in the Puerto Rico area because we've been contacted by the Swedes, who we ally with.  We start fighting you guys in small numbers.  Battles ramp up, you guys start bringing in steadily increasing numbers.  All well and good.  No worries, it's a fight.  That's what we're there for.  Last night, you brought in some real heavies, which sucked, 'cause if the BR difference hadn't swung completely, there, we'd have had a real interesting fight on our hands.  Also: Victories friggin' hurt.

 

So: with the above timeline of events, there's a reason we've gone that way: we're looking for a fight, and we're generally pretty well united in that cause.  All the shit-talking, forum-sniping, and everything else we've been doing?  Well, that's 'cause that's kinda who we are.  Nothing personal.

[Vllad]

  Purge runs smaller, right now, because they haven't put in the time grinding for fights like we had previously.  

 

Hah, so true.

 

Purge levels off of pvp primarily. We try to do PVE occasionally but we aren't very good at it. Our exp is primarily earned through PVP which is much slower. Their is no kind of fight we won't pick on the open sea's but having a crew like Purge doesn't help on the port battle front though.

 

If you see French sails near the British capitol it is most likely Purge guys hunting down players. For Port Battles that is more OMG. That is why we are a good fit with each other. Like Rocky once said "She has gaps and I have gaps, together we fill gaps".

[Arsilon]

While I don't altogether disagree with your position, i do find it rather hypocritical.

There used to be only a couple small Brit clans in the East, and for the most part we were having great little skirmishes with the Swedes, with them usually having a modest BR advantage (modest enough that folks on both sides could still enjoy the fights).

Then you and the French turn up with huge BR fleets to try and stomp on us. You always claim you want great PvP, but you never let it happen yourselves... and then you complain when the other side return the favor.

 

You actually did have the BR in the area to mount a defense at the port last night, but chose not to commit it all.

I'm not really a fan of these huge battles myself, but you failed not because you couldn't defend, but because you chose caution.

Rather than just point out the negative though, I'll offer my observation...

PvP as it stands right now, massively favors the overpowered side. With the increase in Gold and XP for kills and assists it has become even more beneficial to ensure you are on the winning side in an engagement (because as we all know, in most one sided battles the loser gets few if any kills). The weaker side will almost always lose, and gets barely anything as a result. They also suffers the loss of ships.

Add to that the often toxic nature of the chat from the team that is winning not because of any skill, but simply numbers, and you have an environment that actively discourages PvP from anything but the most hardcore player (and they are the ones forming ever larger fleets to ensure the win). The PvP game is not likely to thrive if it doesn't encourage the more casual player to participate.

No captain would be rewarded for squandering limited resources in fights against much weaker opponents. Perhaps the rewards should be weighted by the sizes of the two teams, or more emphasis given to doing well despite being at a disadvantage in a fight. The very best rewards should be given for emerging victorious against a superior foe.

 

It was, and still is my intention of keeping politics out of this thread and focusing instead on what is and is not healthy.  What should be be able to learn as a server that will help the devs put the correct mehanics in game to encourage those things that make it healthy?

 

In many ways I think what is now happening in Puerto Rico between the Brits/Swedes/French actually is a very healthy sign.  All three nations have something to rally around and something to care about.  We can nitpick on use of strategies and game imbalance etc that are also part of this but at its core, what is happening there is what I believe should be going on across that map and for some reason it isn't?

 

Is it just because the French have a different mindset to this game and were able to really stoke the Pirate conflict into a 2 week free for all?  You've said that it wasn't until the French entered the picture in Puerto Rico that things escalated.  The Swedes were able to pull in their neighbor to the south to help them.

 

Even looking at the Danish, they were able to get the aid of Britain in their cause.   Why did DNN choose to re-roll before that alliance could actually work out?

 

So is it just good use of diplomacy that has created a new fun spot for the involved parties?  Is this the mechanic that is missing? 

 

Why is there not more of this going on across the map?  What is keeping the US and Britain from going at it full on like everyone else thinks they should?

 

The Spain situation is an interesting one since they are surrounding by Zerg's to either side.  Should they have tried to work something out with the Dutch instead of fighting them?  Was the Zerg mentality so overpowering that they were doomed from the start?  (I have heard of some diplomatic shortcomings that may have set Spain down this course but I do not know if this is true and to what extent an escape would have been possible short of some implosion similar to what happened to the pirates?)

[RURickJames]

 

 

Even looking at the Danish, they were able to get the aid of Britain in their cause.   Why did DNN choose to re-roll before that alliance could actually work out?

 

 

The answer to this is quite simple, and one I mentioned in my earlier post:

 

There may have been some new DNN players that jumped to the Brits after seeing little chance to do resource trading (no ports)/personal missions (constantly ganked), but probably less than 6 total over the last couple weeks.

[ajffighter86]

Yea lots of people have reached high ranks and do not have content to play but this and alpha so its ok.  but numbers are low.

 

I think the high rankers need to go back and revisit some of the smaller ships. I still jump in a pickle or privateer every now and then even though I can captain a trinc.

 

Most players have viewed this as a grind-game from the very outset. "IF I can just get my Santisima, I can go around ROFLstomping everyone". Then they get bored, because they've dedicated so much time to grinding rather than taking their time and enjoying the game, and they can't find equal competition to give them the challenge.

[Lord Roberts]

France is still remarkably healthy and I will go out on a limb and say it's because we have been one of the most focused "actual PvP" teams.

 

Not trying to be political here, just not sure of another way to put it, but what we've seen of the Pirates and the Brits is what's killing the game: grinding their way up to higher ranks and then simply showing up with so many numbers and so much weight that you can't fight them. The irony is that it kills the game for them more than for the people they "fight".

 

I have to imagine a lot of the pirates really did get bored out of the game. They grinded their way to high level ships (boring!) and then finally went on the attack only to discover that we left our port battles undefended because there was literally no point in trying -- they were too high level and too numerous.

 

And last night was another perfect example. The Brits attacked Fredericksted with over 10,000 BR -- average BR for them was about 450. French actually showed up with 21 defenders but only about 5000 BR -- sorry, but that's really the best we can do at our rank. So the Brits quickly killed the towers and won. It could have been a great fight, 25 v 21, but the Brits literally leveled their way out of PvP. I have to imagine that was a pretty boring night for them, capping off a pretty boring month. (I don't think anyone sunk on either side. It was over that fast. I was hitting a 3rd rate with no armor and the fight ended faster than his ship could fill with water.)

 

 

Meanwhile, we still spend a lot of time hunting on the OS (this, in fact, is why we are lower level) and can generally find people to pick off. So we're losing PvT port battles but getting a lot of open sea PvP. That keeps us entertained while our enemies are literally boring themselves out of the game.

 

There's a lot of fault we can place on the game design here that we could talk about, but the players share a lot of blame here as well.

 

Grind -> grind -> grind -> grind -> show up for port battles that nobody else can even fight you in -> quit.

Open world PvP -> awesome fun -> everyone still playing after 30 days but you can't defend ports.

 

Pick one.

wait you are upset because we brits got better ships than you? and that we don't PVP but you then say we do and that you guys got destroyed, it's part of the game mate, don't like it? leave.

 

Stop having a sook because there are better people our there than you, go grind so that you can use a better ship in PVP like the Brits have done.

Edited March 15, 2016 by Lord Roberts

[HMCS Warrior]

wait you are upset because we brits got better ships than you? and that we don't PVP but you then say we do and that you guys got destroyed, it's part of the game mate, don't like it? leave.

 

Stop having a sook because there are better people our there than you, go grind so that you can use a better ship in PVP like the Brits have done.

Many of us in SoB have done both AI grinding and gone out in small raiding groups and fleets. You can do both. Slamz, its seems like you want it your way or the highway. I understand that the Pirates did not give you much of a choice. You do have the option now. Find the balance and enjoy!  Cheers.

Edited March 15, 2016 by HMCS Warrior

[Bach]

wait you are upset because we brits got better ships than you? and that we don't PVP but you then say we do and that you guys got destroyed, it's part of the game mate, don't like it? leave.

 

Stop having a sook because there are better people our there than you, go grind so that you can use a better ship in PVP like the Brits have done.

 

No man, Slamz is right.  I was almost there at that battle and listened to all the short length of it.  That battle was over so fast many of us couldn't even sail to it from Visquez.  As soon as the towers went down the >2-1 starting BR instantly ended the fight.  You knew it was going to go that way and its why you set it up as such.  It guaranteed a win without a fight and is the epitomy of zerging.  If that is what you want you got it.  I am not going grind NPC's until my eyes bleed to play that game.  Take all the ports you want they are yours for the taking with no actual game play to be had by anyone.  What your doing is not PVP and didn't require any skills beyond math.

Edited March 15, 2016 by Bach

[Sir Robert Calder]

Yes, as much as I enjoyed this patch, I frown on it being called a "big content patch".

 

It was a nice combat mechanics patch with a tentative resource revamp (tentative because until NPC resources are shut off, the new resource system can be largely ignored). It was not a "big content patch", which to me implies some substantial new things to do.

 

And while adding ships to the game is nice, it's really not going to change anything. I doubt that "lack of ships" is anyone's top reason for quitting.

 

 

What I'd really like to see, I think, is a massive rework of port battle mechanics. Somehow it has to not be a battle of "he who brings the biggest ships wins".

 

 

I completely agree with Slamz. Factions that have not had the luxury of owning half of the map while also having the playerbase to more or less secure it have benefited GREATLY from having near boundless resources, favorable PvP engagements, and the ability to farm fleets effectively without being harassed for the most part. That is not a complaint either, just a fact, and one that grossly shows itself as a problem when it comes to port battle mechanics when it completely counter-acts any possible PvP while a superior force can just run a train around all 5 towers and kill them in one pass then leave.

Edited March 15, 2016 by Federico Gravina

[Rosko]

No man, Slamz is right.  I was almost there at that battle and listened to all the short length of it.  That battle was over so fast many of us couldn't even sail to it from Visquez.  As soon as the towers went down the >2-1 starting BR instantly ended the fight.  You knew it was going to go that way and its why you set it up as such.  It guaranteed a win without a fight and is the epitomy of zerging.  If that is what you want you got it.  I am not going grind NPC's until my eyes bleed to play that game.  Take all the ports you want they are yours for the taking with no actual game play to be had by anyone.  What your doing is not PVP and didn't require any skills beyond math.

 

Zerging, Using massive amounts of weak, or generic units, to attack an enemy. http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=zerging

 

So what your saying is, it's unfair for people to advance in the game because you don't want to?  Do what you need to do to get better, your time could be better spent hitting a few fleets instead of whining on the forums.

 

I completely agree with Slamz. Factions that have not had the luxury of owning half of the map while also having the playerbase to more or less secure it have benefited GREATLY from having near boundless resources, favorable PvP engagements, and the ability to farm fleets effectively without being harassed for the most part. That is not a complaint either, just a fact, and one that grossly shows itself as a problem when it comes to port battle mechanics when it completely counter-acts any possible PvP while a superior force can just run a train around all 5 towers and kill them in one pass then leave.

 

From the outside looking in it may look like that but we get our fair share of problems. There has never been endless resources, we have had droughts of certain basic materials. It has never been harassment free fleeting either, other nations like to jump or players in missions, there is usually a group out to gank us every day from multiple boarders. We are a large nation but every clan has a different opinion on what we should be doing so a unified nation we are not. I am glad every other nation thinks we have it easy, it could mean we are doing something right or either we just don't complain about it in the forums. I do actually believe port battles are broken but not in the way you think. You can't just sail around and kill 5 towers then leave in defend battles, you actually have to sink a few ships. The french could have beat us if they brought their big ships out, they had a Victory in port that they choose not to use. In the battle they were very unorganized and it seemed they didn't want to commit to the fight when they had towers on their side. I was expecting some losses but they just let us walk in there and take it. After the towers were down we only had to sink one or two ships for the BR difference in order to win the port. I don't like that their has to be a BR difference to win, we have easily defended ports in the past with lower BR and numbers just from having those towers on our side. It should be harder for the attacker but something does need to change.

[Lord Roberts]

No man, Slamz is right.  I was almost there at that battle and listened to all the short length of it.  That battle was over so fast many of us couldn't even sail to it from Visquez.  As soon as the towers went down the >2-1 starting BR instantly ended the fight.  You knew it was going to go that way and its why you set it up as such.  It guaranteed a win without a fight and is the epitomy of zerging.  If that is what you want you got it.  I am not going grind NPC's until my eyes bleed to play that game.  Take all the ports you want they are yours for the taking with no actual game play to be had by anyone.  What your doing is not PVP and didn't require any skills beyond math.

I was actually in the battle myself and the french had some big ships, bigger than some of the Brits and guess what the french did? they ran from their own towers and were very unorganized. The French have the same numbers as the brits due to the pirates joining them and swedes helping too. Don't blame others because the french are too lazy to get better ships, the game is not going to be always fair and the devs won't give you an advantage because you cry on the forums each time you guys are destroyed in battle.

[The Ghost Ship]

No man, Slamz is right.  I was almost there at that battle and listened to all the short length of it.  That battle was over so fast many of us couldn't even sail to it from Visquez.  As soon as the towers went down the >2-1 starting BR instantly ended the fight.  You knew it was going to go that way and its why you set it up as such.  It guaranteed a win without a fight and is the epitomy of zerging.  If that is what you want you got it.  I am not going grind NPC's until my eyes bleed to play that game.  Take all the ports you want they are yours for the taking with no actual game play to be had by anyone.  What your doing is not PVP and didn't require any skills beyond math.

We're not sitting down with calculators thinking how to break port battles, we just say 'hey who wants to do a port battle, maybe we'll get some PVP' and everyone puts up their hand. We're starved for PVP around Jamaica. Spain isn't able to put up a fight, the Pirates have been in the Antilles for a month, and the American steamroller seems to have stopped (read: never really reached us). We've got nothing else to do except fight AI fleets and go on port cap expeditions.

 

I get that it's frustrating to be outshipped, I felt the same way when we were defeated at Aves. But trust me that as time goes on your players will rank up and the ship difference will become less and less of an issue.

I just don't see how our players can be blamed for loving the game, aggressively pursuing PVP, and organizing large groups. These are three attitudes that, as more people reach the endgame (level cap) will add a lot of content and excitement to the game.

Looking forward to the future when we can all enjoy some large-scale fleet battles, it'll happen.

[Critique]

You were outgunned in the port battle, how do you fix this?

 

"At some point, everything's gonna go south on you... everything's going to go south and you're going to say, this is it. This is how I end. Now you can either accept that, or you can get to work. That's all it is. You just begin. You do the math. You solve one problem... and you solve the next one... and then the next. And If you solve enough problems, you get to come home."

 

Complaining on the forums isn't going to help you, you need to start grinding. If you're too lazy for grinding the fleets, then the blame is on you, not other players.

Edited March 15, 2016 by Critique

[Vllad]

You Brits are lost again.

 

This thread is about the health of the server which I believe Slamz post pretty much sums it up. The French are healthy. They are healthy because we don't spend too much time grinding NPC's.

 

You don't have to grind fleets to get bigger ships. You can grind Brits as well. Its a little slower but the end result is the same only more fun. Since it is quite apparent that the Brits just don't get the French let me translate Slamz post for you.  

 

Grinding NPC's is dull and will chase people away from the game. The better way to grind is through PVP.  That way no matter what the results of the Port Battles your nation will be healthier. (again, this thread is about the health of nations on the server)

 

Slamz post is not a complaint but a warning to everyone out there doing nothing but grinding NPC's. The majority of players grinding NPC's won't be playing this game in a month and those teams will suffer attrition of players because the game will feel dull to them. Feel free to continue but you will pay for those actions later. Spending most of your time PVPing and leveling that way will make this game more fun and therefore lesson the attrition rate.

 

If you wish to disagree with Slamz argument on those merits feel free but at least make a small attempt to improve your reading comprehension and put the discussion in the topics relevance.

[SHiiF7Y]

I can clarify as to why the Pirates are suddenly so successful. After the formation of specifically two separate clans, DC and CURSE, the leaders decided to team up and start taking ports. Shortly afterwards, a small division from USS clan defected to Pirate and formed SSU. These 3 clans have now formed an alliance dedicated to the reclamation of The Bahamas. We are loyal to the pirate faction and are actively engaged with new Pirates on a daily basis trying to encourage people to stay with us. DC has grown to 28 players. I am unsure of the exact numbers of the other 2 clans mentioned, and we have had a surge of vitality within our non-clanned Pirates. All-in-all, it really came down to great communication and teamwork and we are continuing the push everyday!

[Bach]

I was actually in the battle myself and the french had some big ships, bigger than some of the Brits and guess what the french did? they ran from their own towers and were very unorganized. The French have the same numbers as the brits due to the pirates joining them and swedes helping too. Don't blame others because the french are too lazy to get better ships, the game is not going to be always fair and the devs won't give you an advantage because you cry on the forums each time you guys are destroyed in battle.

Yes they did. I am not blaming you. It's an arms race. OMG are working towards the same thing and even the Swedes. Everyone will eventually have to do this on every pvp server. Even on the OS the only ships we would see now are third rates and Trincomelees. I suspect that is mostly because the Tricoms can chase or it would just be all third rates.

If I seem angry I am angry at the game. I had such high hopes for it. We're only one month in and the pixel carribean is already filled with more third rates that the real world ever saw. Next month it's going to be Victory's. That's a PVE grind I'm just not willing to do. At the brig and frig level the game is awesome. At the rate ship level it's a second PVE job. Just picture what new players joining the game next month would see ahead of them to RVR. Most of them will just turn away. That grind is not healthy for the game or even in real life.

My suggestion, new players need to be RVR viable in their second week of game play. Currently we're drifting far far away from this. I think the ratio of shallow ports to deep should much higher to increase the relevance of shallow ports to give new players more opportunity. Rate ships should somehow be more rare and likely not achievable through NPC grinding. Maybe some kind of award from the government for pvp service or something. But they need to be more rare or they simply dominate the arms race and it becomes a necessity to RVR. Probably should also be another captains rank between Tricom and 3rd rate. That BR jump is just to huge and seems to make the Connie somewhat useless.

On a side note you said "French are to lazy to grind up to the ships they need". You call not doing that grind lazy. I call it not getting a divorce and losing the house and kids. Please pull your head out of your butt before you go saying things like that.

Edited March 15, 2016 by Bach

[Mrdoomed]

You Brits are lost again.

This thread is about the health of the server which I believe Slamz post pretty much sums it up. The French are healthy. They are healthy because we don't spend too much time grinding NPC's.

You don't have to grind fleets to get bigger ships. You can grind Brits as well. Its a little slower but the end result is the same only more fun. Since it is quite apparent that the Brits just don't get the French let me translate Slamz post for you.

Grinding NPC's is dull and will chase people away from the game. The better way to grind is through PVP. That way no matter what the results of the Port Battles your nation will be healthier. (again, this thread is about the health of nations on the server)

Slamz post is not a complaint but a warning to everyone out there doing nothing but grinding NPC's. The majority of players grinding NPC's won't be playing this game in a month and those teams will suffer attrition of players because the game will feel dull to them. Feel free to continue but you will pay for those actions later. Spending most of your time PVPing and leveling that way will make this game more fun and therefore lesson the attrition rate.

If you wish to disagree with Slamz argument on those merits feel free but at least make a small attempt to improve your reading comprehension and put the discussion in the topics relevance.

What you say about grinding pve amd mission players is spot on if the forum chat and nation chat is true. Every day i see less of the people hell bent on only doing pve amd working against, purposely, the pvp players.

Myself amd my friends completely have withdrawan from the pirate area because of their constant name calling and insults just because they were getting boared with the game. Its a shame too because the 4 of us pvp almost exclusively and only pve to supply ourselves with mats to build new ships to fight with.

The server seems stable for the last week with the population being 500-600 when ive looked even though the pirates are infighting again i think the server is ok.

It will continue to grow slowly while in EA and thr pve grinders will leave because they are bringing the wrong attitude to this kind of game.

On a side note ive fought LOTS of brits and some US and french and with only a few exeptions the player base is solid amd have good attitudes.

[Bach]

You were outgunned in the port battle, how do you fix this?

"At some point, everything's gonna go south on you... everything's going to go south and you're going to say, this is it. This is how I end. Now you can either accept that, or you can get to work. That's all it is. You just begin. You do the math. You solve one problem... and you solve the next one... and then the next. And If you solve enough problems, you get to come home."

Complaining on the forums isn't going to help you, you need to start grinding. If you're too lazy for grinding the fleets, then the blame is on you, not other players.

No one was out gunned but the towers. The ship to ship guns actually had nothing to do with the battle. I'm not complaining, I'm just telling it how I saw it. You are getting overly defensive and not looking at this for what it is. Step out of the British shoes and out of the French shoes. Your a new player joining the game listening to the battle. You hear the ship configuration used. You hear there was no actual ship to ship fighting that mattered. The computer simply ended the fight do to some numbers ratio. You then realize you have to get into one of those types of ships to compete. How long will this take you? Won't these guys be in even bigger ships by then? When will I be allowed into port battles? Is this game worth the time input?

These are all questions that went through my mind. I can't sail a third rate yet. Do I want to grind that many NPC? Logically next month this is going to escalate into Victories. Do I want to grind that many NPCs? For me that answer is no. I'm probably not going to be the only one. The game will hemorage players because this particular style of RVR combat only favors a few and is a huge deterant to new comers.

Edited March 15, 2016 by Bach

[Lord Roberts]

We grind PVE Fleets so we can get in better ships to PVP and guess what it works, if you don't want to PVE because you think it's silly then don't do it, just don't fucking tell others how to play and then complain about it because you are not grinding fleets.

 

What we are doing is part of the game, intended content, we are not exploiting or abusing anything, you guys can do it to, so go out there and do the same instead of crying on the forums each time someone better than you hurts you.

Edited March 15, 2016 by Henry d'Esterre Darby
Removed insult.

[Bach]

This is too funny, you idiots are complaining that we are playing the game a different way from you and that annoys and angers you because when we do PVP we destroy you. It's sad to see how childish you people really are about all of this.

We grind PVE Fleets so we can get in better ships to PVP and guess what it works, if you don't want to PVE because you think it's silly then don't do it, just don't fucking tell others how to play and then complain about it because you are not grinding fleets.

What we are doing is part of the game, intended content, we are not exploiting or abusing anything, you guys can do it to, so go out there and do the same instead of crying on the forums each time someone better than you hurts you.

Dude, you got to read the stuff your writing. Your still hung up on a battle. Wer'e all talking about the NPC grind requirement of that arms race. You keep pushing the grind as a good thing. What do you do for a living? Are you married? Do you have any kids? Are you so addicted to this that you don't think any of that matters? For the health of the game and it's players it matters. It really does. Edited March 15, 2016 by Bach

[Taralin Snow]

There is a terminology difference at work here.

 

For the French (and many others), "PvP" means player versus player combat, at the level of individual captains sailing individual ships.  "RvR" (a term stolen from GW2 I think) is nation versus nation combat, at the level of groups of players (typically clans) working towards common goals.

 

It is absolutely a valid RvR tactic to win a port battle by showing up with double the defenders' BR, but this RvR tactic involves no actual PvP aside from the need for individual captains to avoid making stupid mistakes that cost BR before the last tower is down.

 

Nobody is claiming that this is somehow unfair, what we are saying is that this is bad for the game because it puts RvR behind a PvE "pay wall".  Effectively it says that "in order to compete in RvR, you must pay your dues in PvE first.  Lots and lots of PvE".  Gating access to RvR behind PvE is what's bad for the game.

 

In a PvE game, gating access to content behind some kind of PvE grind is common and expected.  But this isn't a PvE game, it's a PvP game (this has been confirmed by admin in the past).  And putting that kind of PvE grind into a PvP game isn't good for the game in terms of attracting and keeping players.  It's bad for the players who can't (or won't) PvE as much, and it punishes players who didn't "get in on the ground floor" by forcing them to play to "catch up" rather than playing to "have fun".

 

What we need is for people to be viable and competitive in RvR just by doing PvP.  This can mean either making PvP rewards higher so that you can level that way just as fast as by doing PvE, or it can mean removing the gating requirements completely (e.g. removing rank requirements to crew ships in port battles).  The latter is probably better because arguably the barrier to entry in RvR should be very low so that people can have fun sooner rather than later.  It is not fun being told you must sit out a port battle because your rank is too low.

Edited March 15, 2016 by Taralin Snow

[Kiefer Cain]

It is a matter of pve leading to victory rather than pvp.  When it should be pvp and the battling of skill vs. skill that leads to victory on a pvp server.  Not the triumph of those that pve more over those that pvp more. 
 
Most of the French disappointment at Fredriskstad wasn't that we lost the PB, it was that we were not able to make that Brit victory a painful one, and from where I was perched on the perimeter of the battle several big Brits were about to get sunk.  It was the lack of pvp in that PB which everyone was irritated at.
 
Ultimately, the conclusion of this arms race will result in pvp players winning.  The smaller and 'slower' clans/nations will eventually catch up (if DEVS don't create more pve rewards to add to pvp/rvr fleets) and when they do we will see the return of skill vs. skill.  Rather than who can grind ai faster. 

 

The complaints being made are not because a port was lost, the complaints are of those sitting in the crows nest and seeing the fun factor falling off the pve grinding cliff of no return.  Trying to call it out before the entire population falls off that cliff.
 
The end-game health problem is that the end-game shouldn't be a grind to a Santisimma/Victory, at least not on a pvp server.

Edited March 15, 2016 by Kiefer Cain

[Vllad]

This is too funny, you idiots are complaining that we are playing the game a different way from you and that annoys and angers you because when we do PVP we destroy you. It's sad to see how childish you people really are about all of this.

 

We grind PVE Fleets so we can get in better ships to PVP and guess what it works, if you don't want to PVE because you think it's silly then don't do it, just don't fucking tell others how to play and then complain about it because you are not grinding fleets.

 

What we are doing is part of the game, intended content, we are not exploiting or abusing anything, you guys can do it to, so go out there and do the same instead of crying on the forums each time someone better than you hurts you.

 

You are obviously reading a different thread then I am.