Pirates should only gain XP from PvP kills

[SKurj.]

I'll vote yes to this when automated deliveries are removed, and players have to haul their own stuff at their own risk.

 

Even as part of the largest faction there is hardly any pvp'n going on.  Its a swarm around the capital clubbing AI, or a swarm on the way to attack/defend the next port.  Not much else..

[Konali89]

I'm Dutch, the only time since testing since i have seen a pirate was near Conil. i have seen 80-90% of the map and as a Dutch guy i have to admit i hardly encounter any pirates.

I think pirates should be classed the same as other nations as it currently is. Pirates should be able to live from raiding  and capturing ships and selling those goods trough fishy smugglers. 

For all i care it does not matter what ships pirates sail as this is a game and not real life, but their expansionism should not soley come down onto the US as it currently basically is.

[DeathGenie]

It's really discouraging to consistently hear this. Treating Pirates like an empire-sustaining faction is just not consistent with history. And yet so much historical detail has gone into this game. Which is frustrating, because an inconsistency like this is like watching Saving Private Ryan, but at the end Matt Damon uses a lightsaber on the Germans at Ramelle.

 

The best response I can give is from a thread I posted in a couple weeks ago:

 

In real life, GB, USA, and France were able to limit Piracy because Piracy was decentralized and lacking concerted firepower relative to the Nationals.

One can't make an historical argument ("well they suppressed piracy in real life, you can too") if Pirates ingame are afforded such non-historical luxuries as a centralized location with an unassailable defense fleet.

Also, Pirates were inherently different than the U.S. Founding Fathers in terms of political goals. The analogy posited is false. Aspiring nations such as the United States sought independence under a common banner, with the hopes of creating either a centralized political structure, or, in the case of the U.S., a looser decentralized confederation.

Any research on Pirates shows that Piracy was primarily motivated by short term, personally achievable goals such as profit, and freedom from debt collectors or the law. Nation-building is motivated by long-term, collective goals, that require independent actors to forego short term gain for a larger concept, for historical posterity and glory for future generations.

As short-term actors, many Pirates quarreled with and possessed animosity towards certain other Pirates more than they had towards nations. Yes, a select few literate Pirates did write of dreams of a Pirate paradyse, a land under the black flag, but such musings are akin to disruptive teenagers of the current age dreaming of a utopia without laws and police. They were pipe dreams, not based on what was realistically feasible, in other words. And this was yet a minority: most Pirates saw no future beyond the well being of their purses and their ships.

To treat Pirates as some sort of unified front that historically wanted to band together under a common flag and create a cohesive political empire that would span generations is, simply, wrong in the historical realm. I'm quite disappointed to hear that admin wants to treat them as such, as this game is so good at honoring history in other ways. This seems astonishingly inconsistent with history.

 

In addition to the inconsistency with history, there are also gameplay reasons to want the Pirate experience to be different. It's more fun for everyone if piracy is the scourge of the entire Caribbean, not just the scourge of the area surrounding Mortimer town, or whatever territory they own. To accomplish this, there should be uncaptureable pirate havens spread around the map, and gameplay reasons to keep Pirates visiting each haven (perhaps their endgame RvR goal is to sink a certain amount of tonnage in each sector). It seems like a huge missed opportunity if a Pirate "empire" spreads around Mortimer Town (arbitrary location), and players of Spanish, French, Dutch factions who rarely leave the Lower Antilles almost never encounter a single Pirate.

 

Anyways there were pirates that historically wanted to make a pirate nation, Blackbeard is one, there was also a group on Nassau who wanted to become an independent nation, before the english killed them that is... Not as a short term goal, they actually made steps to become their own nation.

 

 

 

Genie, it's not my goal to preach about making the Pirate faction being harder, but I do believe the faction should be different from the others. I want all you guys to have fun too. I know and like and respect many Pirate players. I want this game to succeed and that means making the best possible gameplay experience for all. In fact, if you read other posts I've made I actually suggest unique buffs to Pirate play, unique ships, customization, modules, etc, that nationals cannot have.

 

As stated above there's just so many gameplay opportunities that can be unlocked by allowing Pirates to fill their historical role. It would help the economy, diplomacy, RvR strategy, and it would just feel so fresh coming from a game like this. We already have 7 factions...is it more important to have an 8th that's completely identical, or more important to have an 8th that's capable of filling a unique and fun role?

 

Anyway, I hope what you say is correct about changes coming to Pirates, because I have not heard anything like that confirmed.'Sharpe, on 06 Jan 2016 - 2:31 PM, said:

 Actually

 

Pirates are intended to be the most difficult faction.

 

 

 You did start your post off complaining about how we're not the hardest faction and complaining that we xp farm off each other, which actually hasn't happened since honor kills were removed. When there are more players and more traders pirates will look like pirates rather than conquesting all of america's ports, because there will be reason to pirate, there isn't right now. You're pointing your finger in the wrong direction, the solution is not located in changing the pirate nation, but changing the other nations to encourage trade.

 

So from what I understand the reason you actually made this post was because you're butt hurt that the pirates are stronger than you and stealing all your ports, suggesting changes because butt hurt is not the right path.

Edited January 7, 2016 by DeathGenie

[Toothless Jack]

Pirates are intended to be the most difficult faction. Piracy is supposed to mean something significant. Pirates are supposed to fight with each other.

These are, to my understanding, what has been stated as the developers' goals.

None of this is happening right now. Pirates are a big happy primarily PvE grinding group where every player is welcomed warmly. The Pirate population is booming to astronomical levels, risking any semblance of historical realism ingame.

As a simple fix, why not this:

*After the first two levels, Pirate XP is accumulated only through PvP kills - of other Pirates or other nations.*

Not just damage, but kills (to avoid risk free damage farming). Kill XP amount can be increased to account for no damage XP.

The benefits of this:

-Pirate rivalries will emerge due to PvP grinding. The Pirate faction will not be a cohesive whole, but rather fragmented into different alliances. This will do wonders for ingame diplomacy, for all nations. Imagining a national guild hiring a Pirate guild (letter of marque) as a mercenary force to fight other Pirates or nationals. The diplomacy outcomes are much more robust than are currently ingame.

-Pirates will take their rightful place as feared PvP players. Grinding entirely on PvP will give them comparatively much more experience in this area than nationals who can grind on PvE, and having the black flag actually inspire fear is something the game should aspire to (and no multiplayer game has yet achieved).

-The Pirate population will have a natural control, to stop it from numerical domination with countless ships of the line. It takes a certain calibre of player to be willing to earn XP entirely through PvP. This ensures that only the bloodthirsty can fly the flag, as it should be historically.

I already see what would happen if group will decide to play pirate nation with the current system and your suggestions implemented.

First they would all start in small/easy nation, get ranks up, farm resources craft ships. Once they done they will turn to pirates.. Nothing much you can do about it unless http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/8135-changing-nations/

Or second thing if it happens and other nations will capture all our other ports but MT how pirates supposed to gather resources to rebuild their ships?

Again with the current delivery system you can not hunt for trader ships and i am sure there wont be much pvp for pirates if they all sailing in cutters unless http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/7895-tweak-to-the-craftingeconomy-side/( look up for my comment )

Now i don't mind if they make pirates hardcore nation.. but what you suggesting i would say they would be much better to remove pirates at all then .

[Powderhorn]

Now i don't mind if they make pirates hardcore nation.. but what you suggesting i would say they would be much better to remove pirates at all then .

I'm glad to see that you agree that pirates are not "hard mode" or really any different than any other nation.

The key question behind this discussion, and one the developers themselves will have to answer, is whether the pirate faction is meant to be "Pirates as brought to you by history" or "Pirates as brought to you by Disney."

[Ned Loe]

Doesn't that, by definition, make pirates "easy mode"...?

Not really, National ports are closed for them, they can get under attack from other Pirates and Nationals. I think this is enough punishment. 

[Bart Smith]

Just give us this revolution charter...asap

Edited January 7, 2016 by Bart Smith

[Toothless Jack]

I'm glad to see that you agree that pirates are not "hard mode" or really any different than any other nation.

The key question behind this discussion, and one the developers themselves will have to answer, is whether the pirate faction is meant to be "Pirates as brought to you by history" or "Pirates as brought to you by Disney."

I understand devs intended pirates to be a hard playing style..

Everyone agrees that pirates did not build Ships of the line or 1st rates. Ok lets make pirates different from all nations take away 1st rate and SOL craft.

How to balance it out? Let just pirates and only pirates capture ships. Let pirates tweak frigate size ships.. More cannons, more speed etc. Different? yes . Hard?. yes. 

It will not be easy to fight in PB's with tweaked 3rd rates. Pirates probably would mostly have some shallow water ports and would not have that many resources but thats where delivery balancing comes in place.

Don't forget that pirates must do at least some pirating Traders that wants to make a lot and easy money would be pirates target. All the rest nations would go to pirates for attacking trading ship.

Pirates must do pirating. Otherwise call them just another nation

[Powderhorn]

Not really, National ports are closed for them, they can get under attack from other Pirates and Nationals. I think this is enough punishment. 

 

National ports are closed to other nations as well.  Nationals can also be attacked by pirates and any other nation.  The diplomacy feature may resolve this, but that's pinning a lot on something that will only exist in some form in the future.  Right now, the only difference between pirates and any other nation is that pirates can attack each other.  However, this can also be used as an easy-mode farming technique.  At the very best, it's a wash.

[Deepgift]

I understand devs intended pirates to be a hard playing style..

Everyone agrees that pirates did not build Ships of the line or 1st rates. Ok lets make pirates different from all nations take away 1st rate and SOL craft.

How to balance it out? Let just pirates and only pirates capture ships. Let pirates tweak frigate size ships.. More cannons, more speed etc. Different? yes . Hard?. yes. 

It will not be easy to fight in PB's with tweaked 3rd rates. Pirates probably would mostly have some shallow water ports and would not have that many resources but thats where delivery balancing comes in place.

Don't forget that pirates must do at least some pirating Traders that wants to make a lot and easy money would be pirates target. All the rest nations would go to pirates for attacking trading ship.

Pirates must do pirating. Otherwise call them just another nation

 

Im not the biggest fan of having the crafting being restricted. and while letting the pirates being able to tweak ships is not a bad idea i think that it would be something that is hard to implement.

 

And with the way the current crafting system is to my understanding is that players from nations don't have to go very far to get there trading done and from what i cant tell Im not sure if there are the numbers of players for pirates to hunt. Heck ive taken trader ships out for hours and haven't had to worry about being attacked because we have this massive map and no more then 300 people at a time to play on it .

 

I think that given time and as the game grows pirates will be seen doing more pirating when theirs more people to pirate.

 

As for the diplomacy aspect of pirates once that gets introduced pirates will be able to be attacked by everyone which will make them a target where as national players will have 2-3 other national nations who they will likely be able to and not be able to attack. Which also makes the pirates ports targets  as they are open to attack from any nation.

 

But to me one of the most exciting reasons i joined pirates is that I can hop in any fight, lets say one of the under maned nations is attacked at the last second and are caught unawares they look for help to defend there port and make a stand outside before there port battle but there undermanned and would benefit from having help, Thats where the pirates come in with coordination and some diplomacy next thing you know the pirates have become mercenaries and helped even the odds for for a nation that would have otherwise been unable to defend.

 

Over all I dont wanna see the pirates limited too much and i think admin had a good idea towards some of the earlier posts in this thread if the pirates are getting to big there is Every Other Nation who can pitch in and help reduce the threat. 

[Ned Loe]

National ports are closed to other nations as well.  Nationals can also be attacked by pirates and any other nation.  The diplomacy feature may resolve this, but that's pinning a lot on something that will only exist in some form in the future.  Right now, the only difference between pirates and any other nation is that pirates can attack each other.  However, this can also be used as an easy-mode farming technique.  At the very best, it's a wash.

That's a developer fault and should be taken into consideration. I have noticed a bunch of players asking why they can't enter other ports if nations are in peace and trade goods. In my opinion I would just add governors for each port and let them control open and closed doors with taxes for each nation. I do agree with you on that one. 

['Sharpe]

You did start your post off complaining about how we're not the hardest faction and complaining that we xp farm off each other, which actually hasn't happened since honor kills were removed. When there are more players and more traders pirates will look like pirates rather than conquesting all of america's ports, because there will be reason to pirate, there isn't right now. You're pointing your finger in the wrong direction, the solution is not located in changing the pirate nation, but changing the other nations to encourage trade.

So from what I understand the reason you actually made this post was because you're butt hurt that the pirates are stronger than you and stealing all your ports, suggesting changes because butt hurt is not the right path.

You're clearly a teenager, and a fine example of the type of Disney Pirates the current faction mechanic has brought into this community. Is this the kind of behavior and language that the devs want to keep bringing into Naval Action?

If you read my second paragraph (right below the first, dontcha know) you will see that these were the stated goals of the game, and right now the reality is not consistent with the goals. It's not a personal complaint, I've quite enjoyed sinking you and other Pirates; PvP was getting a bit dull before the game was made available to the public.

The purpose of testing this game and participating in the forums is to create discussions about features that need further development - or those that seem broken/incomplete, based on previous development plans for the game.

Pirates won't magically change their behavior to only raid trade routes when there are more traders available to sink - they'll still continue to attempt national-style empire building, which is kind of boring considering all else they should be allowed to be capable of.

Edited January 7, 2016 by 'Sharpe

[William the Drake]

It always amuses me that whenever there is discussion or debate of any type of pirate organization, it is written off as "Fantasy/Disney" Pirates. These users are lauded and called Jack Sparrows, and summarily mocked for almost any type of stance that remotely promotes some sort of pirate mechanic that may be deemed useful.

 

Don't get me wrong, these sort of characters do in fact exist; PotCO was not a game I got into, and with good reason. There are indeed characters who will see this game as one of the few age-of-sail games either in development or on the market and think "Oh look, a pirate game, Pirates need to rule the wave because pirates are awesome! We need a Black Pearl and a erroneous Queen Anne's Revenge that's a Man-o-War-Galleon-Super-Lineship, because Pirates!" Yes these characters do exist, however this has been the scapegoat for almost anyone advocating pirates and piracy on this forum and in game, especially during the early months when pirates had yet been implemented.

 

Now to my point: Did pirates fight amongst each other? Yes. Did they also band together, in small groups, from time to time? Yes. Did pirates ever organize themselves to such an extent as to be considered a sizable threat and entity? Yes, and while there are admittedly only a handful of occurances, they happened and were similar enough in nature to prompt the idea that pirates being a "faction" and working together is not fart-fetched and is historically accurate. (NOTE: the idea of pirates as a faction, NOT as a carbon copy Nation).

 

Example include:

• Madagascar
• Port Royal (Though this could be argued as a "privateer haven". However the port and its inhabitants were often described as "vagabonds," "miscreants," and "A collection of the most uncouth characters there ever was." Take that with what you will. "You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy."
• Nassau
• Tortuga

Now, were pirates capable of working together in large numbers, even to form various pirate Republics. Yes. Did pirates want to create a pirate empire, to besiege and more importantly occupy numerous ports? Absolutely not. Pirates were ill-fitted to take on the National navies, and direct conflict was nit in the pirate's playbook. I have said it many times and will continue to say it: pirates should not be concerned with "conquering" a map. We should have our own, unique (and probably separate) victory mode: An Approach to Piracy

[Deepgift]

It always amuses me that whenever there is discussion or debate of any type of pirate organization, it is written off as "Fantasy/Disney" Pirates. These users are lauded and called Jack Sparrows, and summarily mocked for almost any type of stance that remotely promotes some sort of pirate mechanic that may be deemed useful.

 

Don't get me wrong, these sort of characters do in fact exist; PotCO was not a game I got into, and with good reason. There are indeed characters who will see this game as one of the few age-of-sail games either in development or on the market and think "Oh look, a pirate game, Pirates need to rule the wave because pirates are awesome! We need a Black Pearl and a erroneous Queen Anne's Revenge that's a Man-o-War-Galleon-Super-Lineship, because Pirates!" Yes these characters do exist, however this has been the scapegoat for almost anyone advocating pirates and piracy on this forum and in game, especially during the early months when pirates had yet been implemented.

 

Now to my point: Did pirates fight amongst each other? Yes. Did they also band together, in small groups, from time to time? Yes. Did pirates ever organize themselves to such an extent as to be considered a sizable threat and entity? Yes, and while there are admittedly only a handful of occurances, they happened and were similar enough in nature to prompt the idea that pirates being a "faction" and working together is not fart-fetched and is historically accurate. (NOTE: the idea of pirates as a faction, NOT as a carbon copy Nation).

 

Example include:

• Madagascar
• Port Royal (Though this could be argued as a "privateer haven". However the port and its inhabitants were often described as "vagabonds," "miscreants," and "A collection of the most uncouth characters there ever was." Take that with what you will. "You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy."
• Nassau
• Tortuga

Now, were pirates capable of working together in large numbers, even to form various pirate Republics. Yes. Did pirates want to create a pirate empire, to besiege and more importantly occupy numerous ports? Absolutely not. Pirates were ill-fitted to take on the National navies, and direct conflict was nit in the pirate's playbook. I have said it many times and will continue to say it: pirates should not be concerned with "conquering" a map. We should have our own, unique (and probably separate) victory mode: An Approach to Piracy

I like what you have to say on this, an I think a approach like this would be better limiting there XP

Edited January 7, 2016 by Deepgift

[Ian2492]

Maybe pirate port battles could be changed to raids, so pirates have unconquerable ports (havens) on the map, when they get a big fleet up to raid a nation's town instead of capturing it they raid it, which gives penalties to that town's economy for x amount of days and a large amount of goods to the pirate raiders. This could go and in hand with William the Drake's excellents suggestions in this post : http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/6664-pirate-havens-port-security-and-trade-regulations/?p=125864


Also, removing the pirate's ''national'' chat might help them break off into smaller groups, if that is your end goal.

[SKurj.]

Also, removing the pirate's ''national'' chat might help them break off into smaller groups, if that is your end goal.

 

Not a fan of this idea at all..  BUT... I had thought all nation chat should be range restricted.. but then some twit decided to invent things like teamspeak...

[BuccaneerFlint]

You're clearly a teenager, and a fine example of the type of Disney Pirates the current faction mechanic has brought into this community. Is this the kind of behavior and language that the devs want to keep bringing into Naval Action?

If you read my second paragraph (right below the first, dontcha know) you will see that these were the stated goals of the game, and right now the reality is not consistent with the goals. It's not a personal complaint, I've quite enjoyed sinking you and other Pirates; PvP was getting a bit dull before the game was made available to the public.

The purpose of testing this game and participating in the forums is to create discussions about features that need further development - or those that seem broken/incomplete, based on previous development plans for the game.

Pirates won't magically change their behavior to only raid trade routes when there are more traders available to sink - they'll still continue to attempt national-style empire building, which is kind of boring considering all else they should be allowed to be capable of.

I like how you are insulting people with s teenage attitude with a teenage mind. Those acts show a miserable bungler like yourself not liking that your idea is not going your way.  Also don't even try to give yourself a good account because as George Orwell once said " A man who gives a good account of himself is probably lying".

Edited January 7, 2016 by BuccaneerFlint

[DeathGenie]

You're clearly a teenager, and a fine example of the type of Disney Pirates the current faction mechanic has brought into this community. Is this the kind of behavior and language that the devs want to keep bringing into Naval Action?

If you read my second paragraph (right below the first, dontcha know) you will see that these were the stated goals of the game, and right now the reality is not consistent with the goals. It's not a personal complaint, I've quite enjoyed sinking you and other Pirates; PvP was getting a bit dull before the game was made available to the public.

The purpose of testing this game and participating in the forums is to create discussions about features that need further development - or those that seem broken/incomplete, based on previous development plans for the game.

Pirates won't magically change their behavior to only raid trade routes when there are more traders available to sink - they'll still continue to attempt national-style empire building, which is kind of boring considering all else they should be allowed to be capable of.

 

Gotta love when someone starts clearly losing a debate that's obviously founded on butthurt-ness turns into an age thing. Best way to start recovery is admitting there is a problem my friend. I read all your paragraphs, and in the other forums you've posted its all the same, I've never once seen a single good idea come from you because every change you've suggested only has your own goals in mind and not the goals for a flourishing game.

 

I suppose I should make it clear what I'd like to see for the pirate faction instead of just being sarcastic and passive aggressive toward Sharpe, which to set the record straight I've yet to even see in game or be sunk by, anyways off my random tangent there.

 

I enjoy pirates as they are, and from what I understand there are changes already coming that the devs have thought of, so I've yet to actually post my suggestions because I trust the devs, probably some of the best devs I've seen in game making so far. What I'd like to see is the removal of the conquest option for pirates, right now thats not a feasible option since there isnt terribly much to do in game besides sink npcs and go on conquests or pvp, but I'd also like to see ports that are pirate ports become uncapturable, when I started the map was static and ports didn't change, there were plenty of random places around the map that a pirate could port at and make a nice home base of, perfectly dotted around the map so pirates could become a presence that causes all nation's trade to be at risk if they didn't take the long way past the pirate ports. If pirates could never capture or lose ports it would encourage groups to take up residence long term at a port and make it their goal to control the area and disrupt trading, and as traders get better they start dodging pirated areas and the smarter traders get away, but then it forces the pirates to adapt and so on and so forth creating the vicious piracy cycle we've all expected. This also encourages pirate v pirate conflict as the only real thing pirates fought each other for was plunder, the pirate that could dominate the best shipping lanes made the most money.

 

Before any changes happen to pirates however there needs to be changes to the other nations to encourage piracy to begin with, the current trade and economic system does not encourage sailing around looking for traders to capture.. since there are no traders, its far more profitable at the moment to just go sink everything in sight than trade. We need to see the nations changed in such a way that a trader from a nation can trade with another nation for its goods that only that nation has, as they are a luxury in places they are not produced. In times of war trade did not stop, but tariffs and blockades were a good way to control the trading.

 

Anyways to sum everything up, 'Sharpe, quit being butt hurt, change trade, adjust the nations to allow a trade system between nations, and then change the pirates so they are a unique faction and not just an empire building nation with a black flag. 

 

Much love

-Death Genie

[Scorpio Shirica]

What if pirates could "raid" them instead of conquest them? If a nation failed to stop a pirate attack on a port, then it would simply be contested until server reset the next day and have less resources than before? Maybe give pirates increased booty and allow them to purchase "raid" flags from every free port or designated pirate port?

 

Thoughts? 

Edited January 8, 2016 by Scorpio Shirica

[DeathGenie]

What if pirates could "raid" them instead of conquest them? If a nation failed to stop a pirate attack on a port, then it would simply be contested until server reset the next day and have less resources than before? Maybe give pirates increased booty and allow them to purchase "raid" flags from every free port or designated pirate port?

 

Thoughts? 

 

I like the idea of raiding ports, the reason I didn't add it to my post is I'm pretty sure its been suggested before, I do like the idea of it being contested until the next day, then pirates can "conquest" and still do the port battles and stuff, but it would then have no long term affects on the controller of the port. Perhaps make the "raid flags" cheaper than conquest flags since you don't actually get a port out of it.

[Xoosch]

why everybody wants to limit pirates so much?

Capture their ports keeping them only to Mortimer town and they are done without iron or gold.

 

Unless you cant

 

then of course pirates will grow very powerful and build their own country. Perhaps Poland or Glorious Republic of Kazachrstan

 

I do not want them limited, i just want them out entirely. A "Pirate Nation" defending/capturing Cities and building 1st rate Ships of the Line on mass....common this is so unrealistic, it almost ruins the game for me.

[DeathGenie]

I do not want them limited, i just want them out entirely. A "Pirate Nation" defending/capturing Cities and building 1st rate Ships of the Line on mass....common this is so unrealistic, it almost ruins the game for me.

 

I guess I didn't realize other nations building 1st rates was realistic either, oh wait, it isn't. Very few times did the major nations send ships of the line to the caribbean, and almost every time it was done was to quell piracy. Can't have an age of sail game without pirates mate.

[Scorpio Shirica]

Yeah, Admin mentioned in another thread the idea of pirates being able to form their own nations. Sounded like a cool idea as well, not limiting and gives them more potential.

 

However, the "raid" idea would encourage piracy in different corners of the map and make them a unique threat everywhere. 

 

People should just stop their wishful thinking of pirates being perfectly historical, wouldn't be as fun in a sandbox like this one. 

[Xoosch]

I guess I didn't realize other nations building 1st rates was realistic either, oh wait, it isn't. Very few times did the major nations send ships of the line to the caribbean, and almost every time it was done was to quell piracy. Can't have an age of sail game without pirates mate.

 

You are right. But Netherlands or Denmark Building one is at least a possibility. The have the technical knowledge the immense infrastructure and the money to do it. A bunch of Pirates Building one just isn't a possibility.

[DeathGenie]

You are right. But Netherlands or Denmark Building one is at least a possibility. The have the technical knowledge the immense infrastructure and the money to do it. A bunch of Pirates Building one just isn't a possibility.

 

The only nation that actually built a ship of the line in the caribbean is spain, in Havana, and that's only because they owned most of cuba and its immense size allowed for the immense resources required to build a ship of the line, there has to be a balance between realism and fun, if they wanted to go full realism I doubt we would see ships of the line in the caribbean at all, and we most certainly wouldn't see more than two per nation if we even got any. We'd also be able to dock large ships in shallow water ports by using a longboat to get to the shore.