ObiQuiet Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 As I write this, there's a perfect illustration of how the wind is concetrated around the islands we're so familar with in the game: http://earth.nullschool.net/#current/wind/surface/level/orthographic=-70.84,17.86,2274 Here's a static view: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackjack Symons Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 It's beautiful. If our wind system could be based off something like that.... but I digress, it'd be troublesome to say the least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admin Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 It's beautiful. If our wind system could be based off something like that.... but I digress, it'd be troublesome to say the least. So if I am sailing from Mortimer town (Inagua) to Port royal (Jamaica) according to this map. I will have to sail to Florida first; then around Cuba through the Cayman islands and then voila - I am at Port royal 10 hours real time later. Another question - what is the best route from Christiansted to Trindad island according to that route? Is it possible or i will have to wait till spring for winds to change (as in real life). It looks good on paper, but in game I am not sure it will be playable 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ned Loe Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 So if I am sailing from Mortimer town (Inagua) to Port royal (Jamaica) according to this map. I will have to sail to Florida first; then around Cuba through the Cayman islands and then voila - I am at Port royal 10 hours real time later. Another question - what is the best route from Christiansted to Trindad island according to that route? Is it possible or i will have to wait till spring for winds to change (as in real life). It looks good on paper, but in game I am not sure it will be playable Just make bad wind timer shorter(payers spend less time annoyed) and randomize wind angle turns. Ex. Turn clockwise 25% (timer until it reaches needed angle 45 secs, freeze angle timer 2 min) Turn Counter Clockwise 5% ( timer until it reaches needed angle 30 secs, freeze angle timer 1 min) Turn Clockwise 45% (timer until it reaches needed angle 1 min, freeze angle timer 3 min) etc... I think you can code this easily. This will create realistic feel and random wind movement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackjack Symons Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 It looks good on paper, but in game I am not sure it will be playable That's my point It looks great on paper, but probably not implementable at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OlavDeng2 Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Just make bad wind timer shorter(payers spend less time annoyed) and randomize wind angle turns. Ex. Turn clockwise 25% (timer until it reaches needed angle 45 secs, freeze angle timer 2 min) Turn Counter Clockwise 5% ( timer until it reaches needed angle 30 secs, freeze angle timer 1 min) Turn Clockwise 45% (timer until it reaches needed angle 1 min, freeze angle timer 3 min) etc... I think you can code this easily. This will create realistic feel and random wind movement. the problem with this is either, who would the bad wind timer be based on for global wind.... or would everyone have their own wind? it would not work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teatrader Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Beautifull windmap Wauw! Looks like the centre of the storm is above Deadman's Cay Lol. How appropriate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ned Loe Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 the problem with this is either, who would the bad wind timer be based on for global wind.... or would everyone have their own wind? it would not work. Divide map into regions like in potbs. So, each region will have it's own weather code running and will control wind change. I do not see why this can be a problem. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyShelby Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Divide map into regions like in potbs. So, each region will have it's own weather code running and will control wind change. I do not see why this can be a problem. Actually this could work if we spent some time setting up different versions for wind changes. It would make us able to have variable wind speeds in the future as well. I think this is brilliant to be honest. Simple but genius! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OlavDeng2 Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Divide map into regions like in potbs. So, each region will have it's own weather code running and will control wind change. I do not see why this can be a problem. ok, but what if we have enough players in one region, where atleast one end up with bad wind. what would happen? would the wind go crazy? it would go from being a cool thing to being extreamly frustrating and gamy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyShelby Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 ok, but what if we have enough players in one region, where atleast one end up with bad wind. what would happen? would the wind go crazy? it would go from being a cool thing to being extreamly frustrating and gamy. Erhm, i think the wind will change once in a while? ^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OlavDeng2 Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Erhm, i think the wind will change once in a while? ^^ yeah, i got that, but how? how will it be taken into account that some will always have bad wind, wind proposed it to fix the bad wind issue, but what i am saying here is that it simply wont be possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyShelby Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Well the wind would change every 10-15-20 minutes? - Ofcourse there will always be someone who has the wind against them. Does it suck? Yeah. Is it part of the age of sail? Yeah. If you never had bad wind wouldn't it be just as easy to install engines on all the ships instead of sails and just forget all about the wind? I honestly think the current clockwise wind pattern sucks big time. Wind's idea would be atleast as good and with changing wind noone would ever be stuck for more than 10-15-20 minutes depending on when the wind changes.. - Right now we can get stuck in certain ports for 10-15-20 minutes as well so i don't see why we couldn't at the very least try out a system like the one suggested in this thread. ^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OlavDeng2 Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Well the wind would change every 10-15-20 minutes? - Ofcourse there will always be someone who has the wind against them. Does it suck? Yeah. Is it part of the age of sail? Yeah. If you never had bad wind wouldn't it be just as easy to install engines on all the ships instead of sails and just forget all about the wind? I honestly think the current clockwise wind pattern sucks big time. Wind's idea would be atleast as good and with changing wind noone would ever be stuck for more than 10-15-20 minutes depending on when the wind changes.. - Right now we can get stuck in certain ports for 10-15-20 minutes as well so i don't see why we couldn't at the very least try out a system like the one suggested in this thread. ^^ I agree, that system would be cool, however what wind wants this system to do is making sure no one ever is in bad wind, which i highly disagree with, that being said a more natural wind system would be amazing but i dont think it should take players into account what so ever(which wind(the guy) wants to do as to avoid sitting in bad wind) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyShelby Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 I agree, that system would be cool, however what wind wants this system to do is making sure no one ever is in bad wind, which i highly disagree with, that being said a more natural wind system would be amazing but i dont think it should take players into account what so ever(which wind(the guy) wants to do as to avoid sitting in bad wind) Ahh, i see. Okay so to clarify: Personally i think winds idea with different regions and such is awesome. That said, i agree with Olav that it shouldn't take the players into account what so ever. Being stuck or almost stuck for 10-20 minutes is just part of the game. I'd also like the wind changes to be somewhat random while still following a pattern. This would make the wind unpredicable to some extend but still allow us to plan our trips. Planning a route is a part of the age of sail and i think it should be properly represented ingame. If you don't plan properly then you will end up stuck in irons and get annoyed. It's how it should be.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ned Loe Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 ok, but what if we have enough players in one region, where atleast one end up with bad wind. what would happen? would the wind go crazy? it would go from being a cool thing to being extreamly frustrating and gamy. Devs can set up how long bad wind can last for all in one code. As I said before it needs one code to dice wind changes for each region. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ObiQuiet Posted October 2, 2015 Author Share Posted October 2, 2015 I think it depends on whether the open world will be part of the strategic game, or if it will just be a way to travel between battles and go shoppng. If strategic, then prevailing winds, port depth and locations will play an important role in influencing trade routes, risk for traders etc, strategic value of defending areas, etc. If open world is just a way to get from place to place, then wind will be an annoyance with no real purpose and only adds a little bit of realism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OlavDeng2 Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Devs can set up how long bad wind can last for all in one code. As I said before it needs one code to dice wind changes for each region. Like i said, i dont like the idea and as i have said plenty of times, if we have 360 players in one region going 360 direction, which of the 360 people would the bad wind be for? and how would it react considering then somebody else is in a bad wind? there are just too many variables and issues when taking into account multiple people, one person in a single player game, that sure works but we are talking about a game which will have hundreds, even thousands of people in the world and even in different regions. I think it depends on whether the open world will be part of the strategic game, or if it will just be a way to travel between battles and go shoppng. If strategic, then prevailing winds, port depth and locations will play an important role in influencing trade routes, risk for traders etc, strategic value of defending areas, etc. If open world is just a way to get from place to place, then wind will be an annoyance with no real purpose and only adds a little bit of realism. Considering port battles and all that and resources and such it looks like the open world will be part of a strategic game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ned Loe Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Like i said, i dont like the idea and as i have said plenty of times, if we have 360 players in one region going 360 direction, which of the 360 people would the bad wind be for? and how would it react considering then somebody else is in a bad wind? there are just too many variables and issues when taking into account multiple people, one person in a single player game, that sure works but we are talking about a game which will have hundreds, even thousands of people in the world and even in different regions. Considering port battles and all that and resources and such it looks like the open world will be part of a strategic game. It's simple fix. Bad wind angle timer should be no more than 1 minute. Players can sit for a minute and wait for wind change. I do agree that current wind timer is way too long and boring and will effect 1000s of players. Port battle wind code should be separate from open world because it will be an instance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyShelby Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 It's part of the game. If you don't like having bad wind you should be playing Navy Field or World of Warships to be honest. The wind is a big part of the age of sail, you can't just take it out because you dislike it.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maturin Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 So if I am sailing from Mortimer town (Inagua) to Port royal (Jamaica) according to this map. I will have to sail to Florida first; then around Cuba through the Cayman islands and then voila - I am at Port royal 10 hours real time later. Another question - what is the best route from Christiansted to Trindad island according to that route? Is it possible or i will have to wait till spring for winds to change (as in real life). It looks good on paper, but in game I am not sure it will be playable Square riggers can sail at 45 degrees to the wind in the game, so there are zero problems.Also, when I log in and want to sail to Habana from Baracoa, I have no idea what the wind is doing. That is potentially frustrating. If I can predict the wind pattern (with 70% accuracy, as sometimes the prevailing winds will shift in my favor), then I can plan ahead. I can develop logistical strategies for trade and war. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ObiQuiet Posted October 2, 2015 Author Share Posted October 2, 2015 It's part of the game. If you don't like having bad wind you should be playing Navy Field or World of Warships to be honest. The wind is a big part of the age of sail, you can't just take it out because you dislike it.. Absolutely true. We have to have a wind model. The one we have right now is too simple. I've been pondering proposing a better one since I got into OW, but i dont have a refined idea yet. The question about having regional or local winds is the big one for devs to consider. For wind to be a strategy factor, we could argue for local winds and prevailibg winds both as a necessity. If wind is just to be a part if the scenery, then a simple model with a little more variety is enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prater Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 It's simple fix. Bad wind angle timer should be no more than 1 minute. Players can sit for a minute and wait for wind change. I do agree that current wind timer is way too long and boring and will effect 1000s of players. Port battle wind code should be separate from open world because it will be an instance. This doesn't fix anything. You still have the same distance to travel, all that changes is the interval of the change, it doesn't actually change the amount of time it takes to go to places or the amount of time you spend fighting the wind. You will be annoyed more often, but the annoyance will last less; whereas now you are annoyed less often, but for a longer time. It doesn't really change the system, only the interval of the system. The one problem with a realistic or semi realistic wind system is this: Say I am at St. Nicolas and the Wind is coming from the South. I travel for 10 minutes North chasing down an npc or player. I now need to go back because unlike historically, I primarily operate out of local ports for gameplay reasons and I don't live on my ship and have real life. So it takes me 50 minutes to travel the distance it just took me only 10 minutes to travel just to get back. Whenever I travel from St. Nicolas, I will always be fighting the wind when trying to get back to port to log off. I won't want to chase that player or npc for more than 2-3 minutes, because more than that, and it will take me over 15 minutes to get back. With how it is now, I will only ever have bad wind for at max several minutes, unless my course follows the wind change. The current model mostly encourages local travel but discourages long distance. A realistic/semi realistic system would encourage long distance travel in a specific direction, but discourage any kind of local travel where you need to return to your starting location. Of course, in the current system you could leave port when the wind is against you and fight the wind the entire way, but you can always count on the wind changing to a more favorable wind at some point in the wind cycle. I honestly don't know which would be better. Players are always going to be fighting the wind no matter what. If the devs want to spend the time developing it, I am all for it. However, if they don't then I support that decision. This is more like the icing on the cake in my opinion, and not necessarily needed. I can see, however, where a realistic/semi realistic system will have a significant impact on the server and take quite a bit of time to develop. Though, Obi knows a lot more than me so I could be wrong. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ObiQuiet Posted October 3, 2015 Author Share Posted October 3, 2015 [...] I now need to go back because unlike historically, I primarily operate out of local ports for gameplay reasons and I don't live on my ship and have real life. So it takes me 50 minutes to travel the distance it just took me only 10 minutes to travel just to get back. Whenever I travel from St. Nicolas, I will always be fighting the wind when trying to get back to port to log off. [...] The current model mostly encourages local travel but discourages long distance. A realistic/semi realistic system would encourage long distance travel in a specific direction, but discourage any kind of local travel where you need to return to your starting location. This is a significant insight. I think it's another reason to leave realistic winds out, and find a compromise with a simple model that feels less mechanical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyShelby Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 My suggestion: - Take the idea of wind regions that wind had. - Make the wind change in every region every X minutes. Such a simple solution that could make the wind feel less artifical, encouraging long range travels a bit more than the current system while still keeping local travel nice and simple. - Ofcourse it would take time to come up with regions and wind changes but i think it would be very nice compromise between what we have and realistic winds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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