o Barão Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 Battle AI feedback The new changes to AI formations are in general very good. The issue is when this same logic is applied to hunter torpedo divisions. Here a solo BB is in a battle against 5 TBs. In a first moment, the leading TB division after some time tries to get close enough for a torpedo run. No luck, but what comes after is where the issue happens. The TB division will try to form a battle line to trade shots with a powerful BB? I didn't tried to run away. I simply sailed in a straight line to see what the AI would do, and the result is in general poor. Now if I was controlling the TB division I would probably detach all of them and rush the lonely BB. I am not asking the same thing from the AI, but I would like to see more aggressiveness in these situations and to get close for the kill. Damage feedback The battle ended with 8 shots blocked; 42 overpen and 8 penetration only by using HE against TBs with no armor. I don't know if this is a blessing or a curse. In one side, I can't understand how this results are possible by using HE against targets without no armor, but in the other side, I am glad that it did so it can balance the crazy accuracy values present in this battle. (1890 - 50% crew quality) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admiralsnackbar Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 16 minutes ago, o Barão said: Battle AI feedback The new changes to AI formations are in general very good. The issue is when this same logic is applied to hunter torpedo divisions. Here a solo BB is in a battle against 5 TBs. In a first moment, the leading TB division after some time tries to get close enough for a torpedo run. No luck, but what comes after is where the issue happens. The TB division will try to form a battle line to trade shots with a powerful BB? I didn't tried to run away. I simply sailed in a straight line to see what the AI would do, and the result is in general poor. Now if I was controlling the TB division I would probably detach all of them and rush the lonely BB. I am not asking the same thing from the AI, but I would like to see more aggressiveness in these situations and to get close for the kill. Damage feedback The battle ended with 8 shots blocked; 42 overpen and 8 penetration only by using HE against TBs with no armor. I don't know if this is a blessing or a curse. In one side, I can't understand how this results are possible by using HE against targets without no armor, but in the other side, I am glad that it did so it can balance the crazy accuracy values present in this battle. (1890 - 50% crew quality) Just remember that no ships actually have 0 armor. They have a minimum amount of armor set within parameters, but that minimum has been decreasing the last few months. Originally it was 12.5mm or about half an inch. Now IIRC it's 3mm. There's also a skew factor but I don't know exactly how that works, but I think there is always a trivial possibility of a shell failing to penetrate. Thinning the base armor further is arguably a cure worse than the disease, because the number of overpens [with high explosive] is 5x the size of blocked shells. And as the minimum thickness approaches 0 the likelihood of a penetration [shell penetration is roughly between 1-2x effective armor] as opposed to an overpenetration goes to zero as well since it's increasingly unlikely that your penetration value falls between a smaller and smaller range. 2 years in and I have never liked arguing whether the penetration results make sense. People keep complaining and the devs keep making tweaks [which makes me think there is or was something wrong] but without more info from the tool tip (Shell w/ pen X -> [ship part] angle Y degrees effective thickness Z outcome = ) There's always uncertainty. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warspite96 Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 Despite it being supposedly fixed, I'm still getting my ships stuck in the ladder aiming bug. Now instead of being stuck at 0%, they simply get stuck at a higher number than 0. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
o Barão Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 33 minutes ago, admiralsnackbar said: Just remember that no ships actually have 0 armor. They have a minimum amount of armor set within parameters, but that minimum has been decreasing the last few months. Originally it was 12.5mm or about half an inch. Now IIRC it's 3mm. There's also a skew factor but I don't know exactly how that works, but I think there is always a trivial possibility of a shell failing to penetrate. Thinning the base armor further is arguably a cure worse than the disease, because the number of overpens [with high explosive] is 5x the size of blocked shells. And as the minimum thickness approaches 0 the likelihood of a penetration [shell penetration is roughly between 1-2x effective armor] as opposed to an overpenetration goes to zero as well since it's increasingly unlikely that your penetration value falls between a smaller and smaller range. 2 years in and I have never liked arguing whether the penetration results make sense. People keep complaining and the devs keep making tweaks [which makes me think there is or was something wrong] but without more info from the tool tip (Shell w/ pen X -> [ship part] angle Y degrees effective thickness Z outcome = ) There's always uncertainty. I agree with what you are saying. I will add that at the first, I thought this was because those targets, are thin hulls, and so maybe, the shells didn't have the time to arm. So I run a similar test against merchants. A similar result, but now with only 1 block. Maybe if I use incendiary shells I will get better results? Better. But still very strange to see so many overpens with a -100% shell Fuze time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admiralsnackbar Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 I don't know where or even if shell fuse timers interface. I always assumed it was a placeholder variable rather than something that the game made use of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
German CL mk II guns Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 just played a battle, 3in, 4in penetrates main belt 10in loads HE, cant pen, (fire though, yay!) force AP, blocked, blocked, blocked, blocked, blocked, blocked, blocked, blocked, blocked, blocked, blocked, blocked, blocked, blocked, blocked, blocked, blocked, blocked, blocked, blocked, blocked, overpen, blocked, blocked, blocked, blocked, blocked, blocked, blocked, blocked, blocked, blocked, blocked, blocked, blocked, blocked, blocked, blocked, blocked, blocked, blocked, blocked, blocked, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suribachi Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 24 minutes ago, admiralsnackbar said: I don't know where or even if shell fuse timers interface. I always assumed it was a placeholder variable rather than something that the game made use of. Being in danger of going full nerd with this, but I always thought that the game used fuse time to determine when to decide if a shell pen'd or overpen'd by comparing that to the armor thickness and the shell's velocity with a preset fuse time depending on the shell type used. This way, the game makes a calculation to determine if the shell exploded on the armor (block), inside the armor (partial pen), past the armor but before the citadel (pen) or out the far end of the ship before exploding (over-pen). But like I said, I could be way off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admiralsnackbar Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 46 minutes ago, Suribachi said: Being in danger of going full nerd with this, but I always thought that the game used fuse time to determine when to decide if a shell pen'd or overpen'd by comparing that to the armor thickness and the shell's velocity with a preset fuse time depending on the shell type used. This way, the game makes a calculation to determine if the shell exploded on the armor (block), inside the armor (partial pen), past the armor but before the citadel (pen) or out the far end of the ship before exploding (over-pen). But like I said, I could be way off. AAFAICT overpenetration occurs if penetration > 2x armor value (does this factor in the skewing? idk) [I change this to 3.5x in the rebalance mod] Fuse timer isn't referenced anywhere in the penetration text file or the parameters text file, only in technology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suribachi Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 5 minutes ago, admiralsnackbar said: AAFAICT overpenetration occurs if penetration > 2x armor value (does this factor in the skewing? idk) [I change this to 3.5x in the rebalance mod] Fuse timer isn't referenced anywhere in the penetration text file or the parameters text file, only in technology. I understand. What I said above was more of how I would expect the fuse timer to work in game. But it is probably not modeled like this if at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
applegrcoug Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 A few things I have noticed: When I go to save game, save isnt an option...it is now load. Sometimes when I initiate a naval I get the mission indicator the next turn and sometimes not, despite a lot of tonnage adjacent. When I do get a naval invasion mission, if I put more tonnage there, does it increase my chances of success? As others have said, GDP growth of the USA is ridiculous; 11-12% while in a perpetual war. Playing as the UK starting in 1910 now in 1939 I have an army of 568,000...ungoverned Spain is 2x mine. It is so small it cant do anything. How does it ever get big enough to do anything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDHansen Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 (edited) a UI bug seem to have slipped passed the release of this patch, as others have mentioned. It's just visual, buttons work and do what they need to do, as far as I can tell. @applegrcoug even if it says load, it is actually save and for the record, I am (currently) playing with a clean resource file. reported ingame Edited February 17, 2023 by MDHansen 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kineuhansen Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 really hope there is plans on adding some new british towers for late tech nelson towers could be nice also for early tech and new hulls royal navy lack some bc without quarterdeck also would love tosee some new towers for modern heavy cruisers 1 been the same since begining britain have so many lovely ships from interwar cruisers like norfolk york leander town also would love to see less copy psate hulls knowing japanese using some british towers and there more but i dont know them all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suribachi Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 Another UI issue Investing in Shipyards in the campaign in the Finances tab do not reflect any option accurately. However, the feature still does work as intended. In game bug report sent. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deathbringer221 Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 I gotta say the "Save" button saying "Load" gave me a bit of heart attack, would be a great April fool joke though! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Käptn_Flitschauge Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 Got 13% growth for the US as well, in the 1890's. The growth of everyone else is a lot more sane, in the 4s and 5s, so I don't think you need to do much about them, just the US Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senta95 Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 The thing I noticed is that guns have insane pen values, I was testing with mark 3, 15 inch 50 cal gun 1930 tech. Which makes everything just overpen, because it pens 109 inch of armor at 15km distance. Sometimes even with 200 inch pen @ 1 km the enemy ships just blocks the shell, lol. Ships point blank are hitting deck, somehow. Aim bug is back, or was never fixed. (ships goes to 0 aim and does ladder aiming with 0% progress). So, nothing about penetration is fixed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Thomadis Posted February 17, 2023 Author Share Posted February 17, 2023 Dear Admirals, We provide the following fixes and improvements with goal to be the last set of urgent hotfixes after the full release. Hotfix Update v1.2.2 17/2/2023https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/1069660/view/3656396815336910930 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDHansen Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 I get directed to the 1.2.1 patch notes through that link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Thomadis Posted February 17, 2023 Author Share Posted February 17, 2023 1 minute ago, MDHansen said: I get directed to the 1.2.1 patch notes through that link Fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richie_b Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 I've just had the convoy bug back. Take down the escort & the game ended, despite the transports being in sight... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Thomadis Posted February 17, 2023 Author Share Posted February 17, 2023 Uploaded repair of missing Naval Funds data in the campaign main window. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senta95 Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 Literally cant pen a ships with 13 inches of belt armor with guns that can pen 130 inches at that distance. Pen chance on the little hoover pen calculator thing was 90%. All you get is blocked blocked, overpen, blocked blocked, then I pen his gun. Pretty much only thing I can pen is guns. I had 250 inch pen gun @ 1 km, went 1 km close to the ship fired a few salvos, blocked blocked (deck ofc, what else could you hit point blank), overpen overpen, gun pen, blocked blabla im just repeating myself. Awful. Pen values after the update got DOUBLED, not things make even less sense, pen chance, armor, angles w/e, nothing makes any sense at all. On top of that every second salvo just fires half of my guns, the front ones. Aim bug happens frequently. Do u even go to custom battles and playtest anything? Like I'm actually curious. Horrible. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lima Posted February 18, 2023 Share Posted February 18, 2023 10 hours ago, Nick Thomadis said: Uploaded repair of missing Naval Funds data in the campaign main window. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrfox1918 Posted February 18, 2023 Share Posted February 18, 2023 Both the main guns and secondary guns are back to almost never firing and or not rotating to target. Tried a few different classes and eras and nations seems pretty prolific, also made in game report. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinrellren Posted February 18, 2023 Share Posted February 18, 2023 Feedback on 1.2.2R 1. Aiming bug still persists,hitting all the other ships except the one that I aim at. 2. Penetration bug is still there, I can pen everything fine when the range is more than 5km, but once it gets closer, things get blocked way too much for a gun that can penetrate 115cm of armor. Deck hits still happen if the enemy is close by (Makes me think that my gun fired like a mortar... a big mortar) 3. When I conduct a naval invasion with my BBs CAs, and CLs, the enemy usually sends one single DD to engage. Proceed to run away, just using 30x time compression for a long time before ending the battle, THEN THE ENTIRE FLEET RETURN TO PORT WHICH TOOK 5 TURNS TO MOVE. I thought that was not the case a long time ago? To anyone asking if they are going to add aircraft carriers... Please no, there are still bugs to fix. Adding features before fixing bugs is precisely why ancients bug show up again after all this time. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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