>>>v1.09+ Feedback<<<

[MKsuper]

Before the last patch AI would never run away in naval academy, now all they do is run away even if the level says otherwise.

[Eirchirfir]

21 hours ago, Nick Thomadis said:

There are remaining issues with VP, known, that we will either fix with a small update or in the next major update. 

As always, it will help to use the in-game report when you notice something not working right for VP.

So I have enconterd the free VP bug in my current campaign which is well repported and I have also repported in a earlier campaign. I will instead try to give context in the situation it ouccered under.

To start with the Russians are haveing a bad time with 7 diffrent wars at the same time and also has the smallest navy due to severe losses in their constant state of war.

We can also see that there are war going on that is independent from the Russian wars so the world is caotic.

When we look at the world map allow us to see that there are currently no missions left to do and there are only 1BB, 1 CA and 1 CL of the russian navy in the Northeast Asia. It also show the current VP standing in each war I am fighting and that there are no current blockades I am involed with.

So if every thing works as intended so will the VP stay the same after I hit next turn but it did not stay the same. During April 1903 I hade 27,774 VP vs Russias 335 VP became 27,774 VP for me and 585 VP for Russia during May 1903. My VP stayed the same (27,774-27,774=0) and Russias VP changed by 250 VP (585-335=250).

To explane the change in fleets so can I say I hade a task force return for repair and the russian fleet ran into the chinse doomstak. There also did not generate any missions due to the russian/chinse battle so no other reason for VP gain.

At futher observation of the to diffrent turns also shows how random it can be as the VP in the German and Frence war has also changed during the diffrent turns but I was the one gaining from it. In the Frence war my VP went from 81,463 VP to 81,713 VP so a change of 250 VP (81,713-81,463=250) and the Frence stayed the same (331-331=0). For the German war is the same story with my VP going from 26,479 VP to 26,729 VP with the 250 VP change (26,729-26,479=250) and the German staying the same (80-80=0).

Even the alliance war screens VP changed for some reason to diffrent numbers with me gaining 2,000 VP (323,118-321,118=2,000) and German/Frence alliance gaining 2,750 VP (122,693-119,943=2,750). The fact that the alliance VP gains are can be divided by 250 (2,000/250=8 and 2,750/250=250) is intressting but not sure of what to make of it.

[Grayknight]

I play as China or rather i loose as China being forced to restart few campaigns. Main problem? TBs became very uneffectice, incapable of actually aiming their torpedoes

[Admiral Donuts]

2 hours ago, Grayknight said:

I play as China or rather i loose as China being forced to restart few campaigns. Main problem? TBs became very uneffectice, incapable of actually aiming their torpedoes

What helps is, I just relax into the fight. Like a colonoscopy.

After the most recent live update, I'm having problems sinking ships before they get me, when I am superior in applied technology in every way. I think the AI is cheating again.

edit - example - most recent fight against Russia as Japan. I have sent the TBs and CLs on retreat after scrapping the screening force. I have 1 DN 13" and 2 CAs 11" battling a Russian DN. That DN at fairly close range is suffering 0.8 to hit. And is absolutely MANGLING mine. Critical hit after critical hit. Meanwhile, my 3 ships are struggling to even hit, with between 30-40%. What's more, when they do hit they are not penning the Harvey armor. While my Krupp is getting WTF pwned.

I barely escaped with my bacon intact. With superior ships limping away.

Edited November 12, 2022 by Admiral Donuts

[Pappystein]

Had hoped this was fixed...   But invisible weapons and uptakes etc....  Yay

 

[Grayknight]

2 hours ago, Admiral Donuts said:

What helps is, I just relax into the fight. Like a colonoscopy.

After the most recent live update, I'm having problems sinking ships before they get me, when I am superior in applied technology in every way. I think the AI is cheating again.

edit - example - most recent fight against Russia as Japan. I have sent the TBs and CLs on retreat after scrapping the screening force. I have 1 DN 13" and 2 CAs 11" battling a Russian DN. That DN at fairly close range is suffering 0.8 to hit. And is absolutely MANGLING mine. Critical hit after critical hit. Meanwhile, my 3 ships are struggling to even hit, with between 30-40%. What's more, when they do hit they are not penning the Harvey armor. While my Krupp is getting WTF pwned.

I barely escaped with my bacon intact. With superior ships limping away.

Yea... started legendary campaign. On the que Japan declers war after 1 year and i get nice small battle. My 1 ca (2x2 11.5 inch guns and 4x2 5 inch guns 2x2 per side). and for some reason my ship cannot score hits on 3-4 km distance against enemy cruiser which is heaply pounding me. So i check % and i have resonable 5-7 % hit chance while enemy has.... about 15-20%??? WTF? and TBs are like.... really bad i had one shoting torps to the wrong side....

[spinaker]

Submarines work wonders. Well, okay, they finally started attacking surface ships, but now they can chase them for months. So I had two enemy submarines able to sink 3BB and 7 or 8 smaller ships. They did this for 7-8 moves, and all this time I was trying to take my connection to the port. To no avail - it did not budge and was eventually destroyed.
And there are also such fights. It's good that they end in a draw))

Well, from the interesting - torpedo tubes began to be installed on transports.

Edited November 12, 2022 by spinaker

[Marshall99]

Hello Everyone!

It's been a while since I last checked the game. I had many life issues and problemes.

But finally I had some time to check out the progression of this game. I started the french campaign (1890) and now I am in 1901. It is enjoyable. Of course I encounterd some bugs, but I read the forum and the testers noted them already.

The peace agreements are a bit weird. I am not saying that I am greedy or something but if there are some choices on territorial gains and the enemy is entirely crushed, I want the region. I want to rule it. 

Many testers mentioned previously the huge enemy fleet. Well I encounterd the same with USA with around 150 ships. And I am very happy to see the devs response, so this will be fixed. (One frame per second in a battle, ouch 😅). 

I tested the auto resolve battle option too. Well... it is interesting. I had 7 BBs 8 CAs more CLs and even more TBs against one ~3k ton CL. Still resulting in a draw. The draw result would be believable if I had only BBs, so the enemy CL could run away as fast as possible, but I gad TBs and of course fast CLs, so in real life I would catch her and sink her. 

The political and diplomacy aspect in the game need some improvement in my opinion. Diplomacy between countries are very complicated nevermind politics. More diplomacy options would be great in my opinion. Because at the moment sometimes I find it strange that I am at war with a country, but I don't know what was the reason. More options in negotiations between countries would be cool I think. 

Overall, I like the game. But of course there is always room for improvements. But as a very early tester, I have to say that huge progress were made. Keep up the good work! 😊

Edited November 12, 2022 by Marshall99

[Pappystein]

42 minutes ago, Marshall99 said:

Hello Everyone!

I tested the auto resolve battle option too. Well... it is interesting. I had 7 BBs 8 CAs more CLs and even more TBs against one ~3k ton CL. Still resulting in a draw. The draw result would be believable if I had only BBs, so the enemy CL could run away as fast as possible, but I gad TBs and of course fast CLs, so in real life I would catch her and sink her.

The results, Win Draw, Loss are based on the mission's orders.   If you are ordered to destroy ALL enemy ships and only heavily damage them then it is either a draw or a loss. 

This is the reason why Convoys need to stay around even if we accidentally destroy all their escorts first!

[Marshall99]

5 minutes ago, Pappystein said:

The results, Win Draw, Loss are based on the mission's orders.   If you are ordered to destroy ALL enemy ships and only heavily damage them then it is either a draw or a loss. 

This is the reason why Convoys need to stay around even if we accidentally destroy all their escorts first!

Oh I see! I didn't know about this. Thank you for the explanation 😊

[Grayknight]

4 minutes ago, Pappystein said:

The results, Win Draw, Loss are based on the mission's orders.   If you are ordered to destroy ALL enemy ships and only heavily damage them then it is either a draw or a loss. 

This is the reason why Convoys need to stay around even if we accidentally destroy all their escorts first!

i had one small battle 1 ca 1 cl and 1tb vs 1 ca 4 tbs

 

My CA got damage (20%) and i lost 1 TB. Enemy lost 3 TBs and his CA also got damage  about (5-10%)

 

My tb has about 750 tones his have about 450 tones so i lost

750 vs his 1350.

 

Why the hell did he got 1200 vp while i got 700?

[Skeksis]

WTF, transports are now packing torpedo's!

 

 

[o Barão]

18 minutes ago, Skeksis said:

WTF, transports are now packing torpedo's!

 

 

wtf? SERIOUS?!!! 😁

Must be Q-Ships on a mission.

Edited November 12, 2022 by o Barão

[Makko]

Is the penetration formula broken? 

 

I am firing on a CL with my BB. I have 20 inches of deck pen at 10km

 

The CL has 3 inches of main deck armor with 140% bonus, so let's call that 8 inches to be nice and round up. 

 

How is a partial penetration possible? 

 

I overmatch by more than twice, 250% the value of the defending armor. 
 

And to be clear it's not like it happened once, it has happened with the majority of hits I land. 

Edited November 13, 2022 by Makko

[Pappystein]

3 hours ago, Skeksis said:

WTF, transports are now packing torpedo's!

 

Err, have been for a while?    Since the first 1.09 beta atleast   I know I lost an armored cruiser to one :*(

 

[HistoricalAccuracyMan]

3 hours ago, Makko said:

Is the penetration formula broken? 

 

I am firing on a CL with my BB. I have 20 inches of deck pen at 10km

 

The CL has 3 inches of main deck armor with 140% bonus, so let's call that 8 inches to be nice and round up. 

 

How is a partial penetration possible? 

 

I overmatch by more than twice, 250% the value of the defending armor. 
 

And to be clear it's not like it happened once, it has happened with the majority of hits I land. 

May I refer you to an earlier post I made where I discuss/attempt to explain gun penetration in greater detail? I don't know the penetration formula or calculations...but you don't necessarily need to, you just need to know the basics and what conditions will give you the greatest chance of a penetration.

If I had to guess, the angle of impact between your shell and the enemy CLs armor is probably too steep/shallow (depending on which side you measure from). The more of an angle your shell has at the point of impact, the more effective armor you have to penetrate.

For an illustration of what I mean, we can look at a square and measure it (for simplicity sake, I'll just use 2 inches as an example side length). If you measure from top to bottom or from side to side, you will get 2 inches...no surprise there. HOWEVER...if you measure from corner to corner across the middle, you get a length of 2.82 inches (that is just the Pythagorean Theorem of a^2 + b^2 = c^2, and plugging 2 in for a and b to solve for c). If we bump that up to 5 inches, you suddenly have a length of over 7 inches from corner to corner (which would translate to 7 inches of effective armor), and the larger the side length--or to put it another way, the thicker the armor--the worse it gets.

Now, when you draw a line between those two corners, you'll notice that it's a 45 degree angle. Now, how does that tie in? Well, treat that 2 inch square as a section of armor. If your shell hits the flat armor plate at an angle of 90 degrees (perfectly perpendicular) and said shell has 2 inches of penetration, you should score a full pen. But if your shell hits the plate at any angle whatsoever...your shell has to penetrate more effective armor, meaning that your shell will fail to fully penetrate the armor (in the 2 inches at 45 degrees example, you would need almost another full inch of pen). And this is all without considering armor quality and citadel choice (and as I'm sure you're aware, citadels add additional decks/belts that you have to penetrate).

Like I said at the beginning, I don't know the penetration formula...but what I tried to explain above an in my linked post should at least explain how to give yourself the best possible chances of penetrating armor.

TL;DR I don't have the formula, and there's a lot that goes into it. Basically, the angle of impact plays a large part in penetrating armor. If your angle of impact is to steep/shallow, it increases the distance it has to travel through the armor...which in turn means that you need more penetration power/higher penetration values. The closer to perpendicular your shell hits, the more likely you are to penetrate...because that will give you the shortest distance to the other side of the armor plating.

Edited November 13, 2022 by HistoricalAccuracyMan

[Pappystein]

5 hours ago, Grayknight said:

i had one small battle 1 ca 1 cl and 1tb vs 1 ca 4 tbs

 

My CA got damage (20%) and i lost 1 TB. Enemy lost 3 TBs and his CA also got damage  about (5-10%)

 

My tb has about 750 tones his have about 450 tones so i lost

750 vs his 1350.

 

Why the hell did he got 1200 vp while i got 700?

It has been stated over and over that Victory Points have issues... when you see this immediately post a bug (CTRL-J)  

*BUT* VP also are modified by what the mission orders are it seems (badly mind you)  

 

3 hours ago, Makko said:

Is the penetration formula broken? 

 

I am firing on a CL with my BB. I have 20 inches of deck pen at 10km

 

The CL has 3 inches of main deck armor with 140% bonus, so let's call that 8 inches to be nice and round up. 

 

How is a partial penetration possible? 

 

I overmatch by more than twice, 250% the value of the defending armor. 
 

And to be clear it's not like it happened once, it has happened with the majority of hits I land. 

TL:DR,   Don't Bother looking at the Penetration values as anything more than a way to compare which cannon is best for your boat...   The numbers are not going to "seem" accurate in the real world... but a gun with 20" penetration will do better at cracking any armor than a gun with 16" of penetration.   

===============================================================

*the more complete story*

Unless you are running Heavy shells and NO BARREL LENGTH   (we are talking sub 20 caliber which is nearly impossible at the point of the game you seem to be in given the 140% armor the AI has.)   you are hitting the sides of the ship and not the deck.  So no you are not going to penetrate the deck.  

 

But to quote many a COB   "That is all fine and dandy, but this here is the REAL NAVY"

The Penetration number is something that represents a "tested value"   It isn't ALWAYS correct and it isn't ALWAYS applicable.  

 

Angle of Impact,   Velocity of impact, Quality of Armor, and actually ship motions ALL affect the amount of penetration (or if penetration is even possible.  

In a laboratory all of those are for the most part controllable.   But in the real world (or the game in this case)   None of those are controllable by you, the player that fired the gun with 20" of penetration.  

Hope that is helpful

 

Also if you really want to learn about advanced armor penetration,   Get the data right from the expert (well via intermediaries)

http://www.navweaps.com/index_nathan/index_nathan.php

 

Edited November 13, 2022 by Pappystein

[Skeksis]

50 minutes ago, Pappystein said:

Err, have been for a while?    Since the first 1.09 beta atleast   I know I lost an armored cruiser to one :*(

 

I've only played 1910 US 1.09 (many restarts) and you don't actually get that many battles and of the convoys, even fewer chances at taking down transports. I don't know the year of this tech, so (obviously) I haven't reached that far into the campaign to notice it, well until now. 

But now I know, I will be very wary of transports. 

[Admiral Donuts]

I like the new submarine ranges, and I like the fact that destroyer research has finally been fixed.

Still a long way to go. Here's one, I keep getting Dreadnought Improvements discoveries, but there's no improvements in them. And Hull Strapping must have been moved to a later research year, because, as Japan anyway, I got Dreadnoughts III and IV, then achieved Dreadnought II later.

Just a couple things to toss out there.

 

[Grayknight]

7 hours ago, Pappystein said:

It has been stated over and over that Victory Points have issues... when you see this immediately post a bug (CTRL-J)  

*BUT* VP also are modified by what the mission orders are it seems (badly mind you)  

 

TL:DR,   Don't Bother looking at the Penetration values as anything more than a way to compare which cannon is best for your boat...   The numbers are not going to "seem" accurate in the real world... but a gun with 20" penetration will do better at cracking any armor than a gun with 16" of penetration.   

===============================================================

*the more complete story*

Unless you are running Heavy shells and NO BARREL LENGTH   (we are talking sub 20 caliber which is nearly impossible at the point of the game you seem to be in given the 140% armor the AI has.)   you are hitting the sides of the ship and not the deck.  So no you are not going to penetrate the deck.  

 

But to quote many a COB   "That is all fine and dandy, but this here is the REAL NAVY"

The Penetration number is something that represents a "tested value"   It isn't ALWAYS correct and it isn't ALWAYS applicable.  

 

Angle of Impact,   Velocity of impact, Quality of Armor, and actually ship motions ALL affect the amount of penetration (or if penetration is even possible.  

In a laboratory all of those are for the most part controllable.   But in the real world (or the game in this case)   None of those are controllable by you, the player that fired the gun with 20" of penetration.  

Hope that is helpful

 

Also if you really want to learn about advanced armor penetration,   Get the data right from the expert (well via intermediaries)

http://www.navweaps.com/index_nathan/index_nathan.php

 

Badly given the fact that i chased of enemy fleet protecting MINE transports, that did not sustain any damage. I think i will give China a pass for some time or wait for some more fixes.

[Narbar]

My game has been stable, turns don't take to long and no game breaking bugs.

 

The last change to shell dispersion I think has made the game feel better, not so many constant 100% accuracy in all situations.  

 

I think the research rate isn't to bad, I've got my funding into 100% research but I don't instantly become over powered, takes a good few years to start pulling ahead which I like.

 

My main problems I'm finding at the moment, playing as 1910 to 1925 Spain for example, is no matter what I try I'm in constant war.  Mainly with the US and Russia.  I have won all the wars but after 6 months they have restarted the war.  The main problem been after 15 years my economy has dropped to a low where I'm struggling to cope as my growth is in a constant negative due to been at constant war.  It would be nice to have a minimum peace period or a option to try and make friendly advances to nations to deter wars.  

 

The other main issue I have are my CA's primary weapons not firing consistently while my secondary weapons are firing.

 

Overall though I am enjoying the game and feel it's moving in the right direction.  Thanks for all the hard work and i look forward to future updates

Edited November 13, 2022 by Narbar

[Admiral Donuts]

War Score

VP totals on the War Score box are tallying up every war ever fought without resetting, regardless of whether the player was involved in that war. If you're stuck on the wrong side of that VP total, there's nothing you can do to overcome that disparity outside the fact of the most recent large VP totals for actual fights.

Take those away and now there's no way to win. The campaign is over.

First we need to either fix the War Score box, or do away with it entirely. It's redundant anyway, the actual score's tallied on the right hand side of the screen.

Replace the War Score box with a picture of Nick

[Grayknight]

Well i just had strange... strange war with russia and even stranger war with japan (which asked for peace after loosing 2-3 dds due to a submarines. One destroyer sunk and 3 destroyers damaged were worth 26k points.... i mean... i will be waiting for some fixes before progressing with game. I mean that was funny.

 

 

AND PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD REMOVE POWER PROJECTION BASED BLOCADE UNTIL IT IS FIXED!

[Käptn_Flitschauge]

It seems that the world war against Russia is created by them moving their entire navy into the Pacific, and in turn pissing off anyone on the way. I would suggest a fleet moving through waters in proximity of someone to not to inflict damage to relations unless both nations are already hostile

[Makko]

I had assumed that the penetration values were against vertical and horizontal armor for belt and deck respectively, factoring in the trajectory of the shell at the given range. That's why deck penetration is so bad at short ranges. Otherwise that deck penetration value makes no sense whatsoever. 

I am well aware that hitting at less than perpendicular will increase the amount of armor that has to be  penetrated, but in these circumstances I am talking about where they are roughly perpendicular it should not matter. It's not increasing it by 250% for the majority of shots. 
 

 

Overall I don't really care if the ballistics and armor are not 1 to 1 accurate to real life as long as the overall result is roughly accurate, but it is very much not.

Armor is far too effective and hard to penetrate and far to easy to apply to ships. 

6 and 8 inch guns are largely ineffective

 

CLs and CAs just don't seem to work like they should, I built a CA with 12 rapid fire advanced 9 inch guns (almost 60 shells per minute) with the most advanced anti armor rounds I could get and a veteran crew and good coincidence fire control. This should absolutely shred CLs with 5 inches of belt armor and a couple inches on the front and back at ranges of sub 10km, these vessels were weak to 5, 6 and 8 inch guns historically. Somehow though it takes dozens of hits to cripple a ship, and the majority of direct hits  to the broadside at approximately 90 degrees inflict minimal to no damage at all. 

 

It ends up that this ship is worse at killing lightly armored CLs than conventional battleship with slow firing ~15 inch guns, which... does not make any sense realistically.