>>> v1.06-1.08+ Feedback<<<(17/8/2022)

[Knobby]

AI gets victory points for ships that start the battle pre-damaged.

For instance, a battle where I don't catch up with the enemy and end the battle when that becomes possible. No ships have been sighted, no shots fired, but because some of my ships started damaged, the AI is awarded the victory and some victory points

[Sturmalex]

2 hours ago, Zyw said:

I'm still curious to know why we have to go with the gimnick of clone refit/build insted of directly building it.

I mean, peoples are constantly asking for it, if you don't allow it there must be a reason, right?

As a Dev myself I guess technical debt or in laymans terms: Spaghetti Code 😛 Seeing how much stuff gets broken everytime they introduce or change something their codebase must be funny.

[o Barão]

3 hours ago, The PC Collector said:

The reason is that they don't want to allow us, plain and simple. I have captures which prove that the AI is allowed to, so there is no technical reason for not allowing us to, besides them not wanting to.

I can't remember the details, but Nick gave a reason a few weeks ago.  Also, if that was so simple to implement, sure the devs would like for us to have that option in game.

[Nick Thomadis]

4 hours ago, torpedoBoatAddict said:

Urgent bug! Hi Nick,

It seems like upon the introduction of the R2 fix, there is now a major bug with Mothballing, such that whenever you re-crew a mothballed ship, it has to go through a considerable period of repair (2-4 months for DDs, 12 months for BBs!), rendering it out of service for that duration and making the mothball mechanic to save maintenance cost completely worthless. Please fix asap as my Campaign rely heavily on mothballing ships in peace time that can be reactivated to war in short notice.

Hello, the function of mothballing was abused by players to cheat and it caused bugs as we know with ships of low health participating in battles. In reality, crew of a ship cannot be commissioned instantly, so players will have to plan ahead when they want to save money for some ships and not instantly make them available in the next turn. We will improve further the logic in the next patches so that the time delay can be not so severe, but at the moment it was the best compromise to address the main bug and the cheating players.

[o Barão]

@Nick Thomadis another player mention this issue a few days ago. There is a big issue with accuracy values when increasing the 8-inch caliber.

Stock values

20% barrel length increase. All fine.

20% barrel length increase and caliber increased to 8.9 inch. Crazy accuracy values!

Caliber increased to 8.9 inch, stock barrel length. Crazy accuracy values.

In short, the issue here is not the barrel length (working fine) but the caliber increase mechanic around the 8 inch guns.

*Tested in Mk 1 and Mk2 guns.

I tested all the other caliber guns available to CAs and this issue only happens with the 8-inch guns.

 

 

[jw62]

1 hour ago, Nick Thomadis said:

Hello, the function of mothballing was abused by players to cheat and it caused bugs as we know with ships of low health participating in battles. In reality, crew of a ship cannot be commissioned instantly, so players will have to plan ahead when they want to save money for some ships and not instantly make them available in the next turn. We will improve further the logic in the next patches so that the time delay can be not so severe, but at the moment it was the best compromise to address the main bug and the cheating players.

I'm not sure what you call cheating with mothballing, I had mothballed two battleships while Germany was taking a breather so I could put some bank away (100 million for two ships in the north sea for Britain 1947-8), Germany is now contemplating war, after building 50 new ships up from 0. Now it's 11 months for my carefully horded seasoned crew to get back aboard, while my other three battleships and 1 bc are handling Italy and AH. I noticed a bug with mothballed ships instantly refitting, but hey, that's on you, not me, and I figured it's a gift for putting up with playing this campaign since 108.0 1890 through to today somewhere in 1948. I'm enjoying the game, but you just put 30% of my BB's into an 11 month refit, now there's a narrative twist!

so, I've constantly creamed the oppo since 1890. I've taken most of the GDP choices. I've got the little german island and Tunis. I've blockaded and smacked convoys for forty years. Why is my GDP total shit compared to Germany and AH? As a method of ensuring I have lots of ships to sink, fine. I'm actually inclined to think my campaign is bonked because of all the patches since I started playing it, but I should be cleaning up instead of being forced to mothball a third of my fleet between re-engagements. It's also true I keep saying no to peace agreements and am usually fighting three oppo and ignoring France (mostly because I don't want to use their ships so I wont ally)

1.Game needs a Savegame system. It would be nice and not cheating to go back a decade and make a different move

2.On the design page there should be a column for how many ships of each type and refit

3.It should be easier to determine the Mark levels of a ship's guns/torpedoes on the Fleet page

4.You should be able to click on a ship on the Fleet page and open to it in the World Map

5.You should be able to adjust ship settings on a ship by right clicking on it from the World map

6.You should mark for each Research item whether it requires a Shipyard Refit or will be applied on the next turn

7.The Boiler research menu is a little longer than all the rest, almost had coal fired diesel engines

Good job so far, it's a work in progress, I've certainly spent enough time for it to be at the top of my list

[Urst]

54 minutes ago, jw62 said:

I'm not sure what you call cheating with mothballing, I had mothballed two battleships while Germany was taking a breather so I could put some bank away (100 million for two ships in the north sea for Britain 1947-8), Germany is now contemplating war, after building 50 new ships up from 0. Now it's 11 months for my carefully horded seasoned crew to get back aboard, while my other three battleships and 1 bc are handling Italy and AH. I noticed a bug with mothballed ships instantly refitting, but hey, that's on you, not me, and I figured it's a gift for putting up with playing this campaign since 108.0 1890 through to today somewhere in 1948. I'm enjoying the game, but you just put 30% of my BB's into an 11 month refit, now there's a narrative twist!

so, I've constantly creamed the oppo since 1890. I've taken most of the GDP choices. I've got the little german island and Tunis. I've blockaded and smacked convoys for forty years. Why is my GDP total shit compared to Germany and AH? As a method of ensuring I have lots of ships to sink, fine. I'm actually inclined to think my campaign is bonked because of all the patches since I started playing it, but I should be cleaning up instead of being forced to mothball a third of my fleet between re-engagements. It's also true I keep saying no to peace agreements and am usually fighting three oppo and ignoring France (mostly because I don't want to use their ships so I wont ally)

1.Game needs a Savegame system. It would be nice and not cheating to go back a decade and make a different move

2.On the design page there should be a column for how many ships of each type and refit

3.It should be easier to determine the Mark levels of a ship's guns/torpedoes on the Fleet page

4.You should be able to click on a ship on the Fleet page and open to it in the World Map

5.You should be able to adjust ship settings on a ship by right clicking on it from the World map

6.You should mark for each Research item whether it requires a Shipyard Refit or will be applied on the next turn

7.The Boiler research menu is a little longer than all the rest, almost had coal fired diesel engines

Good job so far, it's a work in progress, I've certainly spent enough time for it to be at the top of my list

You do know that it takes a LONG time to get a ship out of a mothballed state, yes?

Here's a video explaining:

 

[Hale]

 

This still isn't fixed?

[Nick Thomadis]

9 hours ago, o Barão said:

@Nick Thomadis another player mention this issue a few days ago. There is a big issue with accuracy values when increasing the 8-inch caliber.

Stock values

20% barrel length increase. All fine.

20% barrel length increase and caliber increased to 8.9 inch. Crazy accuracy values!

Caliber increased to 8.9 inch, stock barrel length. Crazy accuracy values.

In short, the issue here is not the barrel length (working fine) but the caliber increase mechanic around the 8 inch guns.

*Tested in Mk 1 and Mk2 guns.

I tested all the other caliber guns available to CAs and this issue only happens with the 8-inch guns.

 

 

What if you compare these values with a 9 inch gun and +20% length increase. How different are they? They should be almost the same. So the problem is not the interpolation between different calibers but, arguably, the accuracy increase due to the increased range.

[Nick Thomadis]

6 hours ago, Hale said:

 

This still isn't fixed?

What is this exactly? You play in campaign? The technology tree may have been corrupted after the last patches due to new techs. Please restart your campaign.

Please everyone read this:

 

[Nick Thomadis]

7 hours ago, Urst said:

You do know that it takes a LONG time to get a ship out of a mothballed state, yes?

Here's a video explaining:

 

Players have to wait for the next major update to improve this further. Until then, no abusing of mothballing to save costs. I am sorry, let's imagine that the "repair" indication is actually re-commissioning time. Players can still mothball their ships in a more sensible way, without exploitations. 

[The PC Collector]

52 minutes ago, Nick Thomadis said:

Players have to wait for the next major update to improve this further. Until then, no abusing of mothballing to save costs. I am sorry, let's imagine that the "repair" indication is actually re-commissioning time. Players can still mothball their ships in a more sensible way, without exploitations. 

So you're telling me that is an intended feature? A whole year to have my BBs back in action? Why not get rid of the mothball function althogether? Why did you even introduced it on the first place?

Edited August 18, 2022 by The PC Collector

[Hale]

32 minutes ago, Nick Thomadis said:

What is this exactly? You play in campaign? The technology tree may have been corrupted after the last patches due to new techs. Please restart your campaign.
 

 

Yea this was in the campaign, I'll start a new one.  Thanks!

[Nick Thomadis]

6 minutes ago, The PC Collector said:

So you're telling me that is an intended feature? That is the most stupid function ever introduced! A whole year to have my BBs back in action? Why not get rid of the mothball function althogether? Why did you even introduced it on the first place?

There was a decision to keep having a major bug or this and to fix in a short time. It is actually something that works realistically but needs a different UI (to not call it "repairing") and less time, that can be done in the next update. Your post needs re-edit to be less offensive.

[The PC Collector]

6 minutes ago, Nick Thomadis said:

There was a decision to keep having a major bug or this and to fix in a short time.

There are things the players are more concerned than this which have gone unadressed for 8 months at this point, then you decide to simple ruin every single campaign implementing this? Without planning to be more offensive, I think you need to re-evaluate your priorities.

Friendly reminder than the whole mothball abuse is a problem that you created by continuously increasing upkeep costs in a failed attemp to keep the AI at bay from having tons of ships.

Edited August 18, 2022 by The PC Collector

[Fangoriously]

Id think ships 'mothballed' for less than a year should not need much time at all to reactivate, even ships out of service for several years should only need a fraction of the ship's actual build time to reactivate. Its currently a year to 'repair' a mothballed battleship? At least until the later years, you might as well build a new one instead for that time sink.

[The PC Collector]

1 hour ago, Fangoriously said:

Its currently a year to 'repair' a mothballed battleship?

Currently, 3-4 months to reactivate a DD. A new one costs 8 months to build. 6 months for a CL, 14 months to build a new one. I might aswell simply scrap them once a war ends and build new ones once I get at war again.

And yes, 13 months for my BBs. Which means that the average war will be over before my ship is in action again, so what is the point on even keeping them? I might aswell scrap everything but my first fleet (20 ships) and maybe a small buffer of spare ships to be able to keep it at the sea at any time.

Edited August 18, 2022 by The PC Collector

[Urst]

1 hour ago, Nick Thomadis said:

There was a decision to keep having a major bug or this and to fix in a short time. It is actually something that works realistically but needs a different UI (to not call it "repairing") and less time, that can be done in the next update. Your post needs re-edit to be less offensive.

The time is just fine if it's been in mothball for a while. It should scale to a maximum of 3 years and a minimum of 1 month depending on how much time has passed since it was put into mothball and what your technology level is for repairing and building ships.

[Urst]

28 minutes ago, The PC Collector said:

Currently, 3-4 months to reactivate a DD. A new one costs 8 months to build. 6 months for a CL, 14 months to build a new one. I might aswell simply scrap them once a war ends and build new ones once I get at war again.

And yes, 13 months for my BBs. Which means that the average war will be over before my ship is in action again, so what is the point on even keeping them? I might aswell scrap everything but my first fleet (20 ships) and maybe a small buffer of spare ships to be able to keep it at the sea at any time.

Pay more attention to the politics page. When someone's within 15 points of declaring war on you start activating your fleet.

[The PC Collector]

30 minutes ago, Urst said:

It should scale to a maximum of 3 years

Ehrm... I'm at 1930 and my newest, state of the art BB takes 28 months to build. No navy in the world would keep a ship which they would take three years to reactivate, they would simply scrap it and build a new one. Reactivation time should be a 10% of the build time of the ship, tops.

[The PC Collector]

32 minutes ago, Urst said:

Pay more attention to the politics page. When someone's within 15 points of declaring war on you start activating your fleet.

And your economy will sink because of the cost of the reactivation, which will be impossible to assume without war income.

[Revanchist95]

Since the patch today I'm having trouble with getting stuck in between turns I'll get up and leave the computer for 10 minutes come back and still stuck. French 1920 campaign. Exiting back to main menu proceeds to the next turn, just gets tedious after a bit. 

[Vinrellren]

I agree that right now maintanance cost are absurd. Usually I can maintain 20 BBs (average BB, not that great) with around 30 to 40 escorts (DD/CL) or around 10 well designed BBs and similar amount of escorts just fine. Now I am even struggling to maintain a 4 well designed and expensive BBs with no escort at all while playing germany 1920.

I build 20 of the state of the art BBs and now 16 of them on Mothballed without any chance to ever fight a battle, in addition to the fact that maintaining this 4 BBs has made me bankrupt twice, reactivating one of my BBs immediately puts me in negative although at war budget (8% naval budget) and as @The PC Collectorsaid, it took soo much time that I rather scrap the BB and build a new (arguably better) one.

Here I am struggling to maintain a positive monthly with 4 BB's. I have 2 Billion in funds but let's see how that holds if I try to reactivate all of my BB's (20 BB)

Voila! Now I am down 552 MILLION PER MONTH! So within 4 months all of my 9 years of saving (and two war reparation) just gone... reduced to atoms. All of my BBs need 13 MONTHS to reactivate leaving me no chance to actually reactive all my BBs. 

 

Never thought UAD will simulate 1929 Great Depression (Economy goes brrrr)

You can also see, I sunk a lot of the AI fleet (which after this update only hovers around 60-70 ships, only the british can maintain 100+ ships) that they spent a lot of money in building and maintaning new ships which resulted in their tech lagging behind and make the AI easier to beat (This is on hard difficulty).

 

AI building a new ships is an excellent change, but they always focus on building smaller classes
(Look at those CLs and CAs)

This made the game so much easier, by just build a BB's or a BC's that has a small turning circle and have big guns and all of those fancy ships will sank without too much trouble for us.

 

So, what I can say is that there must be a economy rework and probably maintanance cost rework.

Research focus button are too powerfull (Heck even 100% research budget in this update is too strong)

We can easily beat the AI by just researching the best tech early and proceed to build an overpowered battleship/Heavy cruisers and proceed to annihilate the entire AI fleet.

[The PC Collector]

I don't have words to express how frustrated and disappointed I am at the devs right now. Well, I have them, but they will get me banned, so I won't use them. I will just say that, when the game was finally starting to be enjoyable, they decided to, once more, instead of fixing or adding things that we have been asking for months, deploy a hastily and poorly implemented fix for something that nobody had requested and that was solving a "problem" which was created by them to start with.

My campaign is functionally ended, as I can't even keep my fleet on war income, as soon as the war ends I'll have to scrap everything only to not go bankrupt. I'll have more other feedback to give, but I don't feel like it is worth the effort at this point, as I don't feel like it matters. As it has happened with some veterans like Littorio, they have simply made me give up. I hope to be proven wrong, but I no longer have hopes that this game will ever become remotely close to the potential it has. Because, once more, instead of teaching the AI proper skills, their solution is limiting players more and more and more.

[o Barão]

7 hours ago, Nick Thomadis said:

What if you compare these values with a 9 inch gun and +20% length increase. How different are they? They should be almost the same.

They are almost the same. The issue is not the barrel length.

The issue is increasing the caliber of the 8-inch guns to 8.9 inches.

8-inch guns stock values.

8.9-inch guns for comparison

9 inches stock values for comparison

AP accuracy table values summary, for comparison (8 inches vs 8.9 inches vs 9 inches):

1000 m : 17% vs 86% vs 24%

2500 m : 5.3% vs 22% vs 6.3%

5000 m : 1.9% vs 5% vs 1.4%

NOTE:

- The default barrel length for the 8 inches guns is 20.3cm/46 and for the 9 inches gun is 22.9cm/39

 

If we increase the 9-inch guns barrel to have the same proportion as the 8-inch guns, we have these values:

22.9cm/46 (+17% barrel length)

1000 m : 30%

2500 m : 8.8%

5000 m : 3.3%

 

So in conclusion, there is nothing wrong with the barrel length mechanic.

The issue is increasing the caliber of the 8-inch guns to 8.9 inches that will give unrealistic accuracy values.

This only happens with the 8-inch guns.