>>> v1.06-1.08+ Feedback<<<(17/8/2022)

[Eclipse]

When are we getting subs?

[Gsam]

45 minutes ago, Eclipse said:

When are we getting subs?

I hope they focusing on improving the existing content and making it work properly before adding more to the mix. tHey still have a long way to go about balancing the tech tree's improving them and giving each country a national flavor. Not to mention fixing things like accuracy, economy, angling of armor, etc.

[The PC Collector]

4 hours ago, Nick Thomadis said:

We have repaired a major problem that caused lag and crashes, especially in the campaign. Furthermore, we offer fixes and improvements that you recently requested. Please take a look at the changelog:

Sweet! Finaly seeing my french cruisers with the flag that rightfully theyhad to show was a nice point for immersion.

However, is there any plans for adding at the very least the possibility of doing partial refits of captured ships anytime soon? Although I understand the reasons that isn't allowed, captured ships being refitted by thir new owners were not unheard of. In fact, replacing the radio equipment was common, to ease and standardize communications among the fleet.

Even total reconstructions aren't unheard of. For example, Spain's first seaplane tender was built over an old german ship which Spain was given as war reparation after WWI in compesation for the merchants sunk during the unrestricted U-boote campaigns.

[mk4m]

Refits captured ships will be nice, and 100% historical.

Russian Orel refits by japans, before and after:

 

Edited July 29, 2022 by mk4m

[Fangoriously]

Not sure about anything being made lighter in the new patch, the BBs in my current campaign now have a 104% displacement weight when i checked it out in the ship builder.

[BuckleUpBones]

Quote

• Armor weight adjustments to rise exponentially and prevent the creation of unrealistic ships with too much unnatural armor for the size of the ship.

Quote

@DARTIS[developer] 26 Jul @ 5:52am   "I do not know how you managed to squeeze so much armor and create these abominations but it will be the last time this will be allowed in the game )). If Belt and Deck armor are not heavy enough at very high widths, it is something we need to fix."

I'm getting figures upwards of 5.5% 1910 BB increases in armor weights. See on my previous post Schwaben design, it's has gone from 32000 tons to 33761 tons.

Which means I or we have to reduce armor for successful designs, that then means all AI armor will reduce too. I guess that all ships have become weaker because of this, they are now more vulnerable. So with reduced armor the game is changing to a shoot-'em-up meta? Is it becoming more arcady? 

[Gsam]

7 minutes ago, BuckleUpBones said:

I'm getting figures upwards of 5.5% 1910 BB increases in armor weights. See on my previous post Schwaben design, it's has gone from 32000 tons to 33761 tons.

Which means I or we have to reduce armor for successful designs, that then means all AI armor will reduce too. I guess that all ships have become weaker because of this, they are now more vulnerable. So with reduced armor the game is changing to a shoot-'em-up meta? Is it becoming more arcady? 

Im noticing the same thing. I normally go battlecruisers. I can't build them with 16inch guns anymore without stripping the things bare.  Yesterday I could

[Panzergraf]

40 minutes ago, BuckleUpBones said:

I'm getting figures upwards of 5.5% 1910 BB increases in armor weights. See on my previous post Schwaben design, it's has gone from 32000 tons to 33761 tons.

Which means I or we have to reduce armor for successful designs, that then means all AI armor will reduce too. I guess that all ships have become weaker because of this, they are now more vulnerable. So with reduced armor the game is changing to a shoot-'em-up meta? Is it becoming more arcady? 

You could reduce firepower by mounting smaller and/or fewer guns to get the same armor. Overall that will make ships less vulnerable than before, as protection remains the same but firepower is reduced.

[The PC Collector]

After playing a bit the new hotfix, the feed back I have to give:

- Thanks for solving the flag issue. Seeing my captured ships with french/brit flags was crippling the immersion.

- Whatever you did to the ship's movement physics, is a clearly downgrade from the previous iteration and should be reverted ASAP. Now the ships move like carousel horses, not like actual ships anymore.

- The weight changes maybe got a bit overboard, specially for pre dreds.

Edited July 29, 2022 by The PC Collector
The cause of most of the overweight problem was discovered

[ZorinW]

I am not sure what the problem is. You want more armor than was historically applied? Sure, you can do that, but now you have to make sacrifices in other areas, which is perfectly fine.

Also, BBs are not really the main target of this change anyway. It's the DDs and CLs that could be maxed out armorwise and yet stay easily within displacement limits.

[ZorinW]

3 minutes ago, The PC Collector said:

After playing a bit the new hotfix, the feed back I have to give:

- Thanks for solving the flag issue. Seeing my captured ships with french/brit flags was crippling the immersion.

- Whatever you did to the ship's movement physics, is a clearly downgrade from the previous iteration and should be reverted ASAP. Now the ships move like carousel horses, not like actual ships anymore.

- I'm joining the trend that went way out the way with the armour weight changes. My 1898 pre dred, which has a pretty standard weaponry of 2 twin 28 cm main guns, 12 single 17 cm on casemates and 6 twin 10,5 cm on turrets, has come from less than 18000 t to more than 19600. Are you telling me that this super pre dred really can't sport a 32 cm main belt and a 15 cm for and aft belt? That THAT armour (which is barely more than the one the designer put by default when I choose the hull?

You could argue that said ship is fairly fast for a pre dred at 20 knots, but even with a reduction to a more standard pre dred speed of 18 knots, the ship weights 19190 t.

Then, I started stripping things off, and, TADA! the problem appeared. I removed my turrets, and I discovered that they weight like 4 to 6 times more than they should. even wit all the armour stripped off, reduced to 0, my front and aft main turrets weight around 3000 and 2000 t respectively, when according to the game they should weight 550 t. So, it appears that they armour update messed up the turret weight calculations.

@Nick Thomadis Please solve ASAP, because game is not playable anymore.
 

When removing your main turrets did you take into account that that also shortened the citadel and therefor reduced the weight of that as well?

[Kane]

Well, reading these comments.
I understand now why when I went in to refit my battleships for a 2nd time, they are now grossly overweight, leaving me unable to do anything with them.
Great job...

Edited July 29, 2022 by Kane

[The PC Collector]

23 minutes ago, ZorinW said:

When removing your main turrets did you take into account that that also shortened the citadel and therefor reduced the weight of that as well?

Yes, I did. That's why I wrote "turret/citadel weight calculations".

Apparently is intentional, that the more far from the center of the ship they are, the heavier the citadel is. Which won't be a serious problem if it weren't because pre-dreds don't have any other turret placement option save for the very ends of the hull.

[The PC Collector]

This post is voided because there was a mistake on the original one.

Edited July 29, 2022 by The PC Collector

[The PC Collector]

Also, while we are at it: Marking hulls and other stuff as obsolete should be AI only, to ensure that the AI doesn't build garbage. But the players should be allowed to build obsolete ships if they want. Because those can have tactical use, for example cheap, expendable coastal defence ships.

Edited July 29, 2022 by The PC Collector

[TAKTCOM]

9 hours ago, Nick Thomadis said:

Repaired problems of the auto-design which could cause too long campaign turns when building ships.

Thanks, I see an improvement.

Could you be so kind and do something with the tension mechanics? After the relationship becomes 50, it becomes very difficult to change it in the reverse side, whether it is - 50->0 or + 50->0 

Parking of the entire fleet with positive relationships not give a negative attitude.

On 7/27/2022 at 5:51 PM, mk4m said:

Historical many protected and armoured cruisers have main guns in casemates.

We have been talking about this since 2019, I believe.

[Baboulinet]

On 7/7/2022 at 12:09 AM, Nick Thomadis said:

Armor weight adjustments to rise exponentially and prevent the creation of unrealistic ships with too much unnatural armor for the size of the ship.

This is a nice change, but it needs tweaking. Now I can put more armor on CAs than on BBs. In my campaign on pre-dreads (French BB V hull), going from 13 to 13.1 inches of belt armor gives me around 500t more 

[o Barão]

3 hours ago, BuckleUpBones said:

Which means I or we have to reduce armor for successful designs, that then means all AI armor will reduce too.

Not really. If you go with AI normal values, you will notice the impact is minimum. Now, if you want to go with crazy values. 16 inch armor belt as an example, then you will notice a huge impact.

This new mechanic still allows the player to place crazy armor values, but there is a trade off.

If it helps in balancing the player vs AI designs, then is a positive thing IMO.  I still need to run more tests, but at first glance it seems a good solution.

[The PC Collector]

23 minutes ago, o Barão said:

If it helps in balancing the player vs AI designs, then is a positive thing IMO.  I still need to run more tests, but at first glance it seems a good solution.

I disagree. I tried to desing new BBs, and the default armour value the game puts on BBs already make pre-dreds go overweight if you fit anything but the smallest guns.

Besides, the Lord Nelson class had more or less the same displacement as the BB I show in the image, similar belt thickness, and much heavier weaponry. (305 vs 280 mm as mains and 10 240 mm guns as secondaries on turrets instead of my 12 170 mm casemates). Yet mine, even reducing it to Lord Nelson's top speed would be grossly overweight. So no, my ship is not overarmoured, even if it is on the high part of the spectrum.

[o Barão]

52 minutes ago, The PC Collector said:

I disagree. I tried to desing new BBs, and the default armour value the game puts on BBs already make pre-dreds go overweight if you fit anything but the smallest guns.

Besides, the Lord Nelson class had more or less the same displacement as the BB I show in the image, similar belt thickness, and much heavier weaponry. (305 vs 280 mm as mains and 10 240 mm guns as secondaries on turrets instead of my 12 170 mm casemates). Yet mine, even reducing it to Lord Nelson's top speed would be grossly overweight. So no, my ship is not overarmoured, even if it is on the high part of the spectrum.

Strange, I had no issues in designing Lord Nelson.

Well is missing one funnel type from Nelson real design.

[ZorinW]

1 hour ago, The PC Collector said:

I disagree. I tried to desing new BBs, and the default armour value the game puts on BBs already make pre-dreds go overweight if you fit anything but the smallest guns.

Besides, the Lord Nelson class had more or less the same displacement as the BB I show in the image, similar belt thickness, and much heavier weaponry. (305 vs 280 mm as mains and 10 240 mm guns as secondaries on turrets instead of my 12 170 mm casemates). Yet mine, even reducing it to Lord Nelson's top speed would be grossly overweight. So no, my ship is not overarmoured, even if it is on the high part of the spectrum.

Buildning a Lord Nelson is absolutely no problem.

 

[The PC Collector]

Okay, Lord Nelson can be done. But that doesn't mean that pre dreds aren't messed up right now. Right now CAs can have more armour than BBs, for most of the pre dred era, at least with german hulls.

Edited July 29, 2022 by The PC Collector

[ZorinW]

4 minutes ago, The PC Collector said:

Okay, Lord Nelson can be done. But that doesn't mean that pre dreds aren't messed up right now. Right now CAs can have more armour than BBs.

@Nick Thomadis Same for light cruisers. They can still be easily overarmored.  

[o Barão]

6 minutes ago, The PC Collector said:

Okay, Lord Nelson can be done. But that doesn't mean that pre dreds aren't messed up right now. Right now CAs can have more armour than BBs, for most of the pre dred era, at least with german hulls.

All CAs are limited to 15 inch armored belt. That is still too much IMO, but still the BB can have more. So what you are saying?

[The PC Collector]

@o Barão @ZorinW

Nevermind. While refitting my older ships, I didn't notice they were older than I remember. Applying the correct techs solved (most) of the overweight issues.