>>> v1.06-1.08+ Feedback<<<(17/8/2022)

[The PC Collector]

6 hours ago, Baboulinet said:

To be fair, I don't know a lot of examples of ship captures post age of sail. I think that by "surrender" the game means "scuttling" which makes more sense for the time period ?

While I agree, you still should have a chance of getting it, since scuttling takes time. So a decreasing capture/recover % chance depending how much time passed since the ship surrendered and the end of the battle would work. I mean, even in the infamous Scapa Flow scuttling, in which the germans destroyed the valves and all the anti flood systems, the brits managed to save a few ships. Hence the time based %.

[The PC Collector]

Also, balance feedback: You should consider removing the ability to upscale 5" guns on DDs, or allow mid-late CLs to mount 8" guns. Otherwise, the way it is currently, CLs become pretty much obsolete as soon as you unlock a DD hull, which is around 1900

[Urst]

19 minutes ago, The PC Collector said:

Also, balance feedback: You should consider removing the ability to upscale 5" guns on DDs, or allow mid-late CLs to mount 8" guns. Otherwise, the way it is currently, CLs become pretty much obsolete as soon as you unlock a DD hull, which is around 1900

For the latter suggestion, what defines a Light Cruiser is quite literally nothing more than the size of the ships guns. A CL has a maximum gun size of 6" according to history, while a CA has a maximum gun size of 8". Anything larger than 6" bumps the ship into being a CA by virtue of how large the hull would have to be to support anything larger, and same thing for the CA. The Deutchland-class aren't CA, but small BBs. They're literally called "Pocket Battleships".

To the former, a 5.9" gun still isn't as good as a 6" gun damage-wise and penetration-wise. (Despite weighing more)

[mk4m]

53 minutes ago, Urst said:

For the latter suggestion, what defines a Light Cruiser is quite literally nothing more than the size of the ships guns. A CL has a maximum gun size of 6" according to history, while a CA has a maximum gun size of 8". Anything larger than 6" bumps the ship into being a CA by virtue of how large the hull would have to be to support anything larger, and same thing for the CA. The Deutchland-class aren't CA, but small BBs. They're literally called "Pocket Battleships".

To the former, a 5.9" gun still isn't as good as a 6" gun damage-wise and penetration-wise. (Despite weighing more)

Many light cruisers in pre-dreadhnout era have 8" amd 10" main guns. 

Edited July 26, 2022 by mk4m

[The PC Collector]

1 hour ago, Urst said:

For the latter suggestion, what defines a Light Cruiser is quite literally nothing more than the size of the ships guns. A CL has a maximum gun size of 6" according to history, while a CA has a maximum gun size of 8". Anything larger than 6" bumps the ship into being a CA by virtue of how large the hull would have to be to support anything larger, and same thing for the CA. The Deutchland-class aren't CA, but small BBs. They're literally called "Pocket Battleships".

To the former, a 5.9" gun still isn't as good as a 6" gun damage-wise and penetration-wise. (Despite weighing more)

I'm afraid you're wrong. 6" for CLs is the Washington treaty definition of CL, which this game doesn't go for.

About the 5'9" not being AS good as the 6" on CLs, they're close enough, while a 5.9 armed DD costs 1/4th or less than a 6" armed CL. Is the cost effectiveness of 5.9" armed DDs which make CLs obsolete, not the raw performance.

[o Barão]

2 hours ago, mk4m said:

Many light cruisers in pre-dreadhnout era have 8" amd 10" main guns. 

That is a protected cruiser, not a light cruiser.

In game, we have the hulls, but we don't have the mechanism to make true protected cruisers.

- We are missing the use of coal as armor.

- We don't have a slope deck that can also protect the citadel and engines from horizontal fire.

To simplify things in game, the devs decided to make all protected cruisers as light cruisers and armored cruisers as heavy cruisers. However, we also don't have any naval treaty to force nations to build heavy cruisers with a 10k ton limit and 8 inch guns, so we could argue that we also don't have heavy cruisers in game.

[Grizli60rus]

Two things are missing (among other things):
1) Manual placement of ships before battle
2) Changes in relations in diplomacy for money. For example: paid 2 million, and improved or worsened relations by 10 units

[Urst]

3 hours ago, The PC Collector said:

I'm afraid you're wrong. 6" for CLs is the Washington treaty definition of CL, which this game doesn't go for.

About the 5'9" not being AS good as the 6" on CLs, they're close enough, while a 5.9 armed DD costs 1/4th or less than a 6" armed CL. Is the cost effectiveness of 5.9" armed DDs which make CLs obsolete, not the raw performance.

You can't exactly fit more than 2 of those 5.9" guns on most DD hulls until they break 1700 ton maximum displacement anyway, and they're deleted from existence far more easily. Just use more heavy cruisers with HE combined with a few of your own DDs as spotters.

[Narbar]

Hi, trying to use the Italian scout cruiser, but struggling with gun firing arcs as the life boats do not disappear when things are built near them.

 

Thanks Dean 

Edited July 26, 2022 by Narbar
Added photos

[The PC Collector]

51 minutes ago, Urst said:

You can't exactly fit more than 2 of those 5.9" guns on most DD hulls until they break 1700 ton maximum displacement anyway, and they're deleted from existence far more easily. Just use more heavy cruisers with HE combined with a few of your own DDs as spotters.

I managed to fit as many as 7 on a 794 t DD on my AH campaign. And a 1500 one can comfortably fit 4 superfiring guns plus 2 triple torpedo launchers. Sure, I used 5,6" and not 5.9", but you get the point, as the 5.9" fitted all the same, I used 14 cm guns because it looked more germanic.

Either way, if your argument is that "You can't do it on early DDs", which I can prove as not true, and even if it were, it would be only delaying the issue a few years. So the point still stands.

Edited July 26, 2022 by The PC Collector

[Mike L]

5 hours ago, Urst said:

For the latter suggestion, what defines a Light Cruiser is quite literally nothing more than the size of the ships guns. A CL has a maximum gun size of 6" according to history, while a CA has a maximum gun size of 8". Anything larger than 6" bumps the ship into being a CA by virtue of how large the hull would have to be to support anything larger, and same thing for the CA. The Deutchland-class aren't CA, but small BBs. They're literally called "Pocket Battleships".

To the former, a 5.9" gun still isn't as good as a 6" gun damage-wise and penetration-wise. (Despite weighing more)

Thos "Pocket Battleships" were built with were advertised to have a 10,000 ton displacement to meet the treaty's limit for a heavy cruiser.  However, the Germans lied about the actual displacement, just as the Italians and Japanese did for some of their cruisers.  

The US Brooklyn class light cruisers had 5 triple 6" turrets.  They had a heavier broadside than some actual heavy cruisers.  The Japanese Mogami class also started with 5 triple 6" turrets but were upgraded to 5 twin 8" turrets, changing them from light to heavy cruisers.  The distinction between the types was pretty arbitrary.

[TAKTCOM]

CLs right now just bad. They do not stand up to competition with DD as scouts, screen and torpedo platforms. Too big, too slow.

They are also noncompetitive in comparison with CA in the matter of artillery. Typical stability CL hull 1890-1919 is ~30, which means a penalty of about 25% to accuracy. Worse, the double turrets for CL are ~1917, which means that lack of raw firepower.

Light cruisers before 1920, i.e. the first half of the game, are terrible and you should not expect anything good from using CLs. They're kind of OK by 1930, but why use them if you have destroyer leaders anyway...

I don't understand why restrictions on the size of guns are needed, in real history there were no problems installing 10-inch guns on 3k cruisers, or even a 320mm gun on a 4.2k cruiser. It's not that we have any Washington Naval Treaty or something.

[Urst]

8 minutes ago, The PC Collector said:

I managed to fit as many as 7 on a 794 t DD on my AH campaign. And a 1500 one can comfortably fit 4 superfiring guns plus 2 triple torpedo launchers. Sure, I used 5,6" and not 5.9", but you get the point, as the 5.9" fitted all the same, I used 14 cm guns because it looked more germanic.

Either way, if your argument is that "You can't do it on early DDs", which I can prove as not true, and even if it were, it would be only delaying the issue a few years. So the point still stands.

It doesn't delay anything because your ships' armor should defeat all 5" guns by the time it could become an actual issue.

Overall, you still outrange the 5" guns with any heavy cruiser or battleship you could build if you're not being silly about it.
My heavy cruisers for 1920 have 12" of belt armor with 6" of bow and stern armor at +136% quality and 4x dual-mount 8"/48 caliber guns on each side. Can a 5.9" gun beat 14.16" of armor on my bow? What about my 28.32" of belt armor?
Answer is usually "no" even if it's at maximum barrel length at normal combat distances. The DDs torpedos are far more dangerous than its guns at all times if it's close enough to penetrate my armor.

At the very BEST that I can make a 5" gun, with APBC II, maximum bore and barrel length (5.9/51 calibers), Dunnite, Cordite I, heavy shells, it can get up to 26.5" of penetration at 90° at 1000 yards. 14.7" at 5000 yards What does this mean? It's almost never going to penetrate my CA's hull, even at its best, and I'm far more advanced in all of these techs than all of the AI are.

[Ninja]

On 7/25/2022 at 7:43 AM, The PC Collector said:

@Nick Thomadis I'm afraid that you're going to have to take the "on leaving ship designer memory leak" out of the list of solved bugs

This screenshot is from a few minutes ago, ruined the new campaign I was going to start.

 

Exactly the same here, will happily climb to whatever RAM is available. Mine reached 24gb by itself before freezing on return to campaign map from the ship designer.

Whatever you did had zero effect as it's exactly the same as before, so either that particular fix did not make it into the build or however you are testing it internally does not match real world. Also the advice about leaving it and it will recover, yea no, it just straight up crash locks. 

[Kraut]

7 hours ago, Urst said:

For the latter suggestion, what defines a Light Cruiser is quite literally nothing more than the size of the ships guns. A CL has a maximum gun size of 6" according to history, while a CA has a maximum gun size of 8". Anything larger than 6" bumps the ship into being a CA by virtue of how large the hull would have to be to support anything larger, and same thing for the CA. The Deutchland-class aren't CA, but small BBs. They're literally called "Pocket Battleships".

To the former, a 5.9" gun still isn't as good as a 6" gun damage-wise and penetration-wise. (Despite weighing more)

The  1931 Deutschland-Klasse ships were initially labeled Panzer-Kreuzer and later during War-times as Heavy Cruisers.

The Term Pocket-Battleship is a non-official term created from the British and they were referring to the fact, that the rather small ships with their 28cm guns would rival older BBs and outclassing any other Heavy Cruisers of the time, not modern Battleships of the 30ties.

[ZorinW]

Has anyone else noticed that the tech level of the AI makes impossible leaps?

I have my tech slider on 100% since day one and for like 20 years the AI struggles to be "Average" in terms of tech and out of the blue they are also "Very Advanced". That should not be possible.

[Narbar]

I'm finding on CA's that primary and sometimes secondary guns won't fire unless you right click the enemy ship, and then only fires once until you right click the enemy ship again then repeats the single fire.

 

Also in my 1920 Italian campaign, I'm currently at peace after a short war with France, my gpd is going up but my monthly naval budget is going down.  Their are multiple other Wars going on, not sure if this as intended.

 

3 years into my campaign, not even completed its first war, the British are out of the game due to been dissolved thanks to financial collapse.  Maybe the bug effected them to? Was set at Legendary difficulty

Edited July 26, 2022 by Narbar

[Eirchirfir]

38 minutes ago, ZorinW said:

Has anyone else noticed that the tech level of the AI makes impossible leaps?

I have my tech slider on 100% since day one and for like 20 years the AI struggles to be "Average" in terms of tech and out of the blue they are also "Very Advanced". That should not be possible.

I have seen AI having "Very Advanced" but it often happens after an AI nations collaps. A collapsed nation still count towards the "Average" tech level of every nation even if the collapsed nation no longer gain new tech.

It is very easy for an AI nation with tech from 1921 to be "Very Advanced" compared to a collapsed nation stuck at 1904.

The label "Very Advanced" can be missleading so it is better to try to lock at what tech the AI unlock each turn to see where they are tech wise.

If you have tech slider at 100% then most likely you whould be ahead of AI when it comes to tech no matter what even if the AI is "Very Advanced" as you should be more advanced.

[Fangoriously]

Regarding the heavy cruiser and light cruiser types in game, I think the range of main gun for whats considered a light cruiser should be between 5 in and 8 in, wile whats considered a 'heavy cruiser' should have a main gun range between 8 in and 12 in. Plenty of those light cruiser hulls can exceed heavy cruiser treaty weight restrictions, put 8 in guns on them and they are de facto how you make treaty heavy cruisers in game, or smaller 6 in gun (medium) heavy cruisers. The heavy cruiser type should be what a nation might build with no limits imposed on them, something like the Deutschland class should be an average type of ship you would build out of modern heavy cruiser hulls.

Some types of hulls should have different caliber restrictions though. The protected cruiser hulls maybe should be limited to 6 in max, but with a larger casemate selection, and the more modern light cruiser hulls that look more like large destroyers should be 6 in limited as well. Older style armored cruiser hulls maybe should have a 10 in gun limit, but also up to 8 in casemate guns available.

[King_Tiger_II]

This 11 inch mount is somehow blocked by the sponson mounts, this is not how things are supposed to work.

[The PC Collector]

7 hours ago, Eirchirfir said:

The label "Very Advanced" can be missleading so it is better to try to lock at what tech the AI unlock each turn to see where they are tech wise.

That's why I suggested that insted of that, we should get the average year of the tech each country has unlocked. Would be much more informative.

[Kane]

Came back after some weeks to give them game another try.
Playing as Germany, earliest start point.
1)  Took Ireland from the British.  Britain dissolved in the next war.
2)  At war with France.
3)  Have been at war with France since 1900.
4)  Had France blockaded between 1900-1920.  French economy is still growing.  I have ships both in the Atlantic and Med, no longer sinking French transports.  French economy is still growing.  One transport gets sunk maybe every 5 turns.  Both fleets are set to invade.
5)  Have kicked the crap out of the Italians because my fleets blockading France make them feel insecure.  Having to cough up a lot of dough to avoid provoking Asutrio-Hungary (also enemies of the French) who seems to build ships and grow their fleet at a preternatural pace.
Nevermind that the Italians were my allies fighting the French right alongside me.  Until they decided they don't let me being in the Med...helping them fight their enemy...

Something needs to be addressed here.  20 years of blockade should be an issue.  .  By 1910 France had less than 10 warships, none of them battleships.  While I have complete control of the waters around their nation, shouldn't I be doing things like bombarding their ports?  Shouldn't they have run out of snails and started eating each other years ago?

Hopefully some of this will be expanded on in the future, but the failure of this 20 year blockade to bring down the French is...annoying.

Also
A battleship's radios should not weigh more than a fully-armed destroyer.

Edited July 27, 2022 by Kane

[Kane]

Also.  In campaign, we really need to be able to save designs we can't yet built.  Just spent 30 minutes designing a battleship just the way I need it, only to discover its too big.  2 months of increased construction and I'll be able to build it.  Now I have to do all that design again and try to remember everything.  (Not to mention all the time piddling about to balance the hull.)

[The PC Collector]

2 hours ago, Kane said:

A battleship's radios should not weigh more than a fully-armed destroyer.

I wouldn't be so sure... do you have an idea of how stupidly heavy were electronics before transistors were invented?

Edited July 27, 2022 by The PC Collector

[Kane]

17 minutes ago, The PC Collector said:

I wouldn't be so sure... do you have an idea of how stupidly heavy were electronics before transistors were invented?

Yes, I do.
That aside, I even went to the trouble of contacting the curator of battleship New Jersey to ask him about it just in case my judgment was in error. While he's been too busy to pull paperwork for the exact numbers, even he found the numbers....unlikely, even accounting for cooling equipment, steel cabinetry, etc.
Putting aside what I know about radio equipment from the era, I'm inclined to trust his judgment about whether or not 2,000 tons of radio is reasonable or not.

Edited July 27, 2022 by Kane