>>> v1.06-1.08+ Feedback<<<(17/8/2022)

[havaduck]

@Nick Thomadis

This:

is absolutely not working to the point that have to call it absolute BS.

 

I have this fleet sitting in common waters with the french (which I chose because they are the french and I had the lowest with relations to them)

 

Its double the amount of ships.

Its nearly 4 time the tonnage.

Its more than 10 time the power projection.

 

Guess what? I cant start a god damn war. I cant even get relations down with ANYONE! I need that much fleet just to STOP it going upwards.  This is what diplomacy looks like after 3 years passed ingame.

 

How about events? Guess what? I got 1, yes one that lowered my relations with the british. By 2.

And recently I could have spent mony to improve my relations with EVERYONE by another 5.

The rest dont do absolutely nothing for relations.

I tried to piss off AH - naturally didnt work. Instead french relations went up.

 

I made the error assuming it was the hotfix being applied to the last campaign but its not. This is with the hotfix. Frankly this is unplayable and its the live release. I cant go back to 1.05 or one of the betas that at least worked better than this.

[Tréville]

Regarding UI requests I'd really like to be able to see how changing gun length or diameter effects stats compared to base values more easily.

Maybe give me this pop-up when using the - and + buttons so I can see how the changes affect the guns live instead of having to memorise the stats, manipulating the gun and then trying to compare the new values with what I had to memorise.

[Drenzul]

@Nick Thomadis
So... started a new 1930 British campaign (1.07) 

Went in designed my ships, all good.
Saved my designs, clicked exit shipyard. 

Game stops on Loading world, waited 10 minutes then gave up and went for a bath. 
Had actually finished by the time I got back about 1 hour after exiting the shipyard, could see in task manager it was doing something.... fairly constant CPU, RAM and disk usage (quite a high rate of disk usage at 35mb/s) 

Sounds like something isn't working right here.

Edited July 8, 2022 by Drenzul

[Drenzul]

And now stuck on 'Update Missions' in March 1930....

So game is basically unplayable.

[lagabu]

"- Increased slightly the exponential engine weight according to speed to disallow unrealistic speed abuse in old hulls."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is unreasonable.The truth is the engine weight depends on its horsepower,and the ship`s horsepower mainly depends on it`s displacement,hull form and speed.(increases exponentially with speed)

I have done an experiment in early vision.A BC and a BB with the same displacement and engine/fuel/boiler,I was puzzled to see the 30 knot BC(110k+ horsepower) with a 1600+tons engine,while the 27knot BB`s (70k+ horsepower) engine is over 3500tons.I kwew it`s of course  the "exponential engine weight".after I set a lower speed(25knot),its still has en 2000+tons engine with only 50k+horsepower.

I want to say that old hulls still have their right to have higher speed after the modernization modification by repalce advanced engine.Many old warships did so during 1920~1940.My ships in campaign have such a requirement.

[ZorinW]

Does anyone have any issues with maxing out the armor? In every camapign now I can easily build ships, especially CLs, that have totally maxed out armor and I will still have displacement left. That doesn't feel right, at all.

[o Barão]

1.08 campaign feedback

A-H / 1890

I don't have any ships, 😒

 Again, I don't have any ships, 😒

Should I be worried about the relations with the Comoros Islands government? They are a small archipelago in East Africa. Will they attack me with coconuts and sail majestically across the Mediterranean in canoes?

 Again, I don't have any ships, 😒

So they want to modernize the French shipyards? The French, the country I am at war? Sure why not..😒

Oh really? Let me check...

Apart from the French, who I am at war, everybody loves me. Probably, fake news was already a theme in 19th century. 😒

36.5 knots TB in 1894. Too much maybe?

I am at war with the French, but the panel in the top left corner only shows the Italian vs French war. Also the Germans are also at with the french and are my allies. Needs work.

Now they love me? The press in this era is worse than twitter.

I tried to blockade the French at Gibraltar, but they simply don't care. 😒

I decided to test screen and scout.

- My TB's are drunk. They stay in an area to the back of the port side.

- When an enemy show up, it seems at first they are going to protect me, but then they turn around and ram my BB.

- In the back, one BB is trying to overtake the other. Why? I have no idea, but he will continue trying during the entire battle.

This must be a hobby for the TB's captains. To see who can ram more times, against the admiral BB.😒

They were supposed to be scouting, but instead my TB's captains simply ignore me? Maybe there is fish in that area. 😒

So what? I am at war with them.

- Are they expecting my government to give them money, so they could build more weapons and ammo to use against my troops?

- Are they expecting my government to admit this war crimes? In a time of war?

This event doesn't make any sense. If it was after a peace deal was signed, could be a possibility, but not during a war. 😒

 

Still playable and fun, but many things are in need to improve.

 

Edited July 8, 2022 by o Barão

[ZorinW]

Fought a doom stack with a total of 107 ships with my 3 BBs and 2 CAs. I dealt them over 400k worth of damage and destroyed 67 of their ships and they managed a total of 2.1k dmg in return. Allegedly they are at a very advanced tech level, but apparently that didn't do them any good...

Please devs, theach the AI to build decent ships.

[Dr.Dag]

Hey there,

First of all, thank you for continuing on the development on the game, I really like the next steps you made for the campaign.

I got a few points regarding setting up formations:

• I am one of those boring players, i like my stack of 8 BB with 16 CLs and 32 DD
• are there any plans where we could setup divisions and overall formation on the strategic map prior to the engagement?
• my biggest beef is, once i get my divisions sorted and try to get them into position, my entire fleet turn into a cluster**** and only becomes an efficient formation 10+ minutes later (on acceleration)
• It really would be great to be able to set formations on strategic level - i thing Burning Steel allowed for that in the distant past

cheers,

Dag

Edited July 8, 2022 by Dr.Dag

[The PC Collector]

Some more feedback.

- Nations collapse and dissolve too easy and fast. 6 years into campaign and two already dissolved. It would be better if collapsed nations would simply stay dormant for a while and then come back, rather than completely disappear.

- This has been reported many times, but since it seems that it hasn't pressed enough, I'll add myself to the plea: if the AI won't bother to engage, DO NOT EVEN GENERATE THE ENCOUNTER.

- Please give us an option to have the "avoid ships" and "avoid torpedoes" enabled or disabled globally by default. With the new common maxi battles having to do it division by division every single battle is tedious.

This is not feedback, but a question. Is there any plans to make the minor countries fightable/allied? Otherwise those events that give you relations with them make no sense.

Edited July 9, 2022 by The PC Collector

[outerexodus]

Off, this freezing and insane load times between screens is killing me.  Can NOT stream this at all with five to twenty minute load times on turns and exiting ship designer... Whatever happened, I wish you guys the best of luck in fixing it! I'll be back in when the next Beta starts. Cheers!

[The PC Collector]

After finishing my 1.07 campaign (which I could end because I had Steam in offline when the update was deployed) I have to say that I have more feedback that I'll give as I haven't seen anything attempted to be done about it in 1.08.

- Light ships, specially CLs, are still way too tanky.

- Tech speed looks still too slow. By the end of my campaign (1898) I was getting techs that I should have been getting in 1892 according to the game.

- Penalty for priority research are still too big to be worth even considering using it. Given the amount of tech fields (around 40 if I'm not mistaken) taking the resources to speed up one by a 50% would reallistically have a negligible impact on the rest. I'd say that something ranging from 5 to a 10% penalty would be more adequate. And 10% feels already too big.

- Countries collapsing by themselves at turbo speed is a very serious issue. One that should be tackled immediately as it makes the campaing effectively barely playable at all. In fact the issue is so serious of an issue that I'm not going to bother wasting more time on testing until I see in the patchnotes that this critical issue is being taken care off.

[Kiknurazz91]

What is the difference between Historic and Random in the campaign? When I play historic its always the same countries that go to war and ally. If I play random does that mean there's a chance as Germany I can ally with Britain or vice versa? Because in historic Britain and France are always at war with Germany, Italy, and Austria-Hungary no matter how hard I try it never changes.

[Skeksis]

Crews get trained while still building the ship! Note, this was running a 1.07 campaign with 1.08 update so this could be a screwed up report, up to you if you want to check.

Edited July 9, 2022 by Skeksis

[Skeksis]

You know this is an exploit. AI pits one ship against a full fleet, the whole fleet is sent home because of one ship's minor damage, now it takes 2-4 turns (months) to get back into position, one ship to create a huge tactical advantage. If the battle generator spawns the opposite fleet numbers, the player can sent the enemy fleet home and have the sea region clear for 2-4 turns (months). 

Edited July 9, 2022 by Skeksis

[Norbert Sattler]

6 hours ago, ZorinW said:

Fought a doom stack with a total of 107 ships with my 3 BBs and 2 CAs. I dealt them over 400k worth of damage and destroyed 67 of their ships and they managed a total of 2.1k dmg in return. Allegedly they are at a very advanced tech level, but apparently that didn't do them any good...

Please devs, theach the AI to build decent ships.

The AI can build decent ships, but they seem rather reluctant to refit their ships recently, so you'll only have a very small number of modern ships accompanied by loads of woefully outdated ones.

[Norbert Sattler]

I'm having a rather severe and consistent bug with the newest hotfix.

When I get events at the start of a round and go to refit one of my ships, the event is repeated once I leave the ship designer and the effects are applied each time.

This only happens if I go into the designer with view ship of an existing design and then hit the refit button. If I go into the ship designer via new ship everything's fine.

For me this bug is 100% re-createable. I started two new campaigns to test this out, once even shutting down the game and manually deleting the save_0.json, but it stays.

Also when I make a refit design, they disappear again when I open another ship for redesign or quit the game and load back in. Even when I am actively refitting ships to the new design before quitting the game and re-loading, those ships are right back to the original template and the refit design is gone upon the re-load.

If I save and re-load in a round where I took an event multiple times, all the stacked up effects stay in place, be it unrest, GDP, relationship or whatever.

I sent an in-game bug-report too, but once again the character limit struck... please increase the character limit for the bug-reporter. It prevents people from giving you all the relevant information.

[jkl]

Here we go again.

Since lot of time passed, and lot of patches released, it's intended.

Explain pls logic why 4.9" have weight of 5" x2,5.

And not, it isn't UI bug, pair of 4" casemate guns upgarded to 4.9" give more than 100t weight.

@Nick Thomadis

[Drenzul]

@Nick Thomadis
Tried again on 1.08, lasted till August 1930 this time.....

Then frozen on Update Missions again. Waited 20 minutes, now I give up.
Seems within a month or two of me actually putting boats in the water this happens.

I have to ask, do you have zero QA/automated tests to run to catch stuff like this? 
So you can just run them on a build overnight before releasing it. Basic stuff like code getting
stuck in infinite loops (except for extreme edge-cases) should basically never happen so 
I don't get why it is happening. 

Sorry but this is simply poor development practices at play here. Massive and obvious bugs like
this should be caught well before we come close to seeing a patch released.

It's not like this is a new issue either, we've been seeing basically the same issue for month.

[Steeltrap]

Any plans to do anything about the Borg sighting?

It's plain, old fashioned bullshit to say a ship can fire at you from 17km away because a DD can see you from 3km away.

That simply WAS NOT THE CASE in any effective measure, or indeed largely AT ALL with the exception of shore bombardment, but that's an entirely different gunnery situation. Not until late into WW2 did ships have effectively fully integrated radar in their fire control suites. Even those continued to train optics on their targets when possible because of issues around radar effectiveness at spotting fall of shot and thus making corrections.

Seeing videos of ships in 1900-1912 doing it is just dumb and lazy. It was equally the case 2+ YEARS ago when I and others raised it.

I've not bothered with the game since it went to Steam, but I've watched videos of others playing. The same old issues with combat remain as best I can see. MAX Bulkheads = Zombie apocalypse fleet, for example.

When things like the specific issue I mentioned get addressed, plus the many other important (with respects to claims of realistic) issues raised, then it might start to look promising again.

Cheers

p.s. Interesting how few of the names around from those times appear to have stuck at it. Can't remember when I last poked my nose into this forum.

Edited July 9, 2022 by Steeltrap

[itolan1752]

First time to start in 1900.before that I always start in 1890.

See the Research, I am very confuse, because I never research so far when I start in 1890.

I can't have these tech at the same time when I play from 1890 to 1900.(even I don't priority any tech)

1. Economizer
2. CA 12,500t
3. Krupp 1
4. Dumaresq device
5. Anti flooding 2
6. 2~13 inch gun mk2

but they are almost default when start in 1900. (even not, they will appear in next research)

I know some tech appear randomly.but I thought the research speed is still have problem.

Edited July 9, 2022 by itolan1752

[slightlytreasonous]

With the work week (I assume)over,

I'm probably gonna go the same path of Littorio.  This game could be the holy grail of the genre for who knows how long, if a few systems were overhauled.  But as Littorio said, instead of necessary reworks it's more like duct tape.  He was right when he said it would do more good for the game if development basically halted to overhaul core systems.  I agree its a bit unreasonable but still an ideal.  Littorio was right about basically everything, frankly.  It's a shame that the devs don't seem to be listening.  Maybe not agreeing, but at least listening.

 

Maybe it's temporary?  Maybe we will see these mythical things?  God knows because it's total radio silence, I've pleaded and pleaded for so much as a vague non committal, but just that is mythical at best.

 

The devs saying the campaign will be a sandbox almost seems like a lie, or a joke at best.   Guns, obsoleteness, don't even get me started.  But I probably should get started.

We are still constantly forced not to use "obsolete" things.  We can't even build obsolete ships.  As I've said so many times before, it might not be obsolete to me.  Or maybe I just wanna mess around with a horde of pre dreadnoughts.

 

Maybe for some reason it would just be too much for the immediate future, to give us more freedom?  But they have gotten even stricter with 1.06.  Is there a good reason for this?  Is it for the AI?  Can't obsoleteness be AI only?

Well, I dunno.  Sadly I'm not a psychic, and there haven't been any favors done there.

Gun stats are country, (visual model!) specific, not at the very least a few randomized presets chosen beforehand, or being able to design them ourselves, as has been requested by me and others.  (Armory system, as it's been dubbed)

It is always the same.   Just like it is with hulls and towers.  Replayability has been thrown out the window in favor of unchangeable presets.

Next on the list is the battle generator.  Which is just that.  A generator.  Generates a battle out of thin air whether you like it or not.

Always available withdraw is great.  I am very happy to see that.  But I'd think it be much better as the outright "deny battle" of that which won't be spoken because of the rules.

But either way the battle generator does not have a shred of player input.  Some of us might prefer Jeune Ecole line of gameplay.  Still others perhaps prefer japanese Kantai Kessen.  Tough luck, because the generator says otherwise. 

And then we have battles themselves.  Formations, spotting, and no strategic level.  I'll be light on this because I need to end this rant some time, but it is very much a wreck.  It worked for custom battles and the academy.   But without a overhaul, it can not, and will not, work in the campaign.

 

The reason name which shall not be spoken is so great, granted I admit it's a unfair comparison and that game suffers from many of the pitfalls I've outlined here, is because the devs know what it is.  And they have a guy watching the forums like a hawk, ready to rapidly engage with the community at a moments notice with not a shred of mercy.

They know the issues and tell the community, "I get it, this will be worked on." And the game knows what it is, because it knows what it is not... 

This game does not have that same privilege.  Will it be a historical railroad or sandbox? Will it be a "instant action" arcade, or a realistic strategy?

I don't know, but if the devs do, they need to tell us.

I know this may sound like a unhinged rant, but my final piece of advice for the devs: take what so many have said and stare it in the eye.  For suggestions, listen to them.  For issues, spend one of the big updates or so giving the long standing ones the  bandaid treatment to keep the game playable, and spend the next few completely reworking core features.  Grand scale or not.

The devs probably aren't the boss so I don't mean to blame them, but that's also why I doubt they will listen.  Can they?  I really hope so, because then that would mean this isn't an exercise in futility.

 

 

 

[The PC Collector]

48 minutes ago, itolan1752 said:

I thought the research speed is still have problem.

I'm hardly surprised. With the nations turbo collapsing on themselves, the average campaign is still too short to properly test the development speed. But in my campaign I was getting 1892 techs (acording to the game) in late 1897, with 100% research for the whole game except for a few months in late 1893 (when, according to the game, these techs were already late)

[ColonelHenry]

1 hour ago, Steeltrap said:

Any plans to do anything about the Borg sighting?

It's plain, old fashioned bullshit to say a ship can fire at you from 17km away because a DD can see you from 3km away.

That simply WAS NOT THE CASE in any effective measure, or indeed largely AT ALL with the exception of shore bombardment, but that's an entirely different gunnery situation. Not until late into WW2 did ships have effectively fully integrated radar in their fire control suites. Even those continued to train optics on their targets when possible because of issues around radar effectiveness at spotting fall of shot and thus making corrections.

Seeing videos of ships in 1900-1912 doing it is just dumb and lazy. It was equally the case 2+ YEARS ago when I and others raised it.

I've not bothered with the game since it went to Steam, but I've watched videos of others playing. The same old issues with combat remain as best I can see. MAX Bulkheads = Zombie apocalypse fleet, for example.

When things like the specific issue I mentioned get addressed, plus the many other important (with respects to claims of realistic) issues raised, then it might start to look promising again.

Cheers

p.s. Interesting how few of the names around from those times appear to have stuck at it. Can't remember when I last poked my nose into this forum.

Most dedicated players that wanted more realistic depiction in various department of the game have moved on I'm afraid; especially those with access and are familiar with various source materials and are willing to see the game go toward the realism direction.

I know it's falling on deaf ears but my hope of changes toward the battles are:

Change the spotting and modify gunnery system to be more realistic doing away with the current arcady spotting distance, and the wacky -99% target fast speed penalty. Beside the WOWS spotting system, this speed penalty thing is wild. An example: I made 2 Shimakaze vs 1 Baltimore Cruiser (both 1940 tech). I had both design to be very good in game with low pitch and negligible stability problem. And somehow... the Baltimore cruiser failed to kill both DD for 40 mins plus. Both destroyers with 40.5knts, somehow gave my cruiser with the latest radar tech (radar III), armed with 3x3 8inch/55, 6x2 5inch/38, and ~12x4 1.6 (40mm) inch AA gun, a -99% accuracy penalty. I kid you not, both destroyers got within 500m of my cruisers without dying; the 8inch simply refused to fire, the 5inch got off like 3 salvos, and my 40mm AA guns simply missed like 80% of the shot at that moment. It took my 8inch half of its ammo count to actually kill both of these destroyers at 5km. That is neither realistic, NOR FUN to play. I tried having my ship going at cruising speed, I tried it at max speed (33 knts), it did not matter.

Internal fire and fire in general needs to be extremely dangerous regardless of time period. A ship should not be able to put out fire in completely destroyed sections of a ship, not constantly taking out fire like it's as easy as snuffing out a candle.

More pronounced flooding damage. It was great at the start of the last beta testing with ships sinking due to inability to 100% stop flooding. It was a too much however, but a complete nerf (nearly removed outright) was not justified. It made flooding hits dangerous. It just needs more system to work with (like player and AI can focus crew toward dealing with the flooding) so a single lucky flooding hit would not completely sink a BB.

After all of that, the last thing about battles that need a look at is the ship deployment menu at the start. We should be able to deploy the ships like how Total War allow the player to place units at the start. If this isn't possible, at least in the campaign map, allow the player to customize division and what ship leads what division in a fleet; and possible formations that could be adopted before a battle start (with exception of ambushes).

[itolan1752]

19 minutes ago, The PC Collector said:

I'm hardly surprised. With the nations turbo collapsing on themselves, the average campaign is still too short to properly test the development speed. But in my campaign I was getting 1892 techs (acording to the game) in late 1897, with 100% research for the whole game except for a few months in late 1893 (when, according to the game, these techs were already late)

A contradiction thing for me is...

I hope they improve tech. but on the other hand, I thought that balance the tech is way too early.

Entire "Submarine Design" and half of "Naval Tactics" are still WIP.(and this will be a huge work)

even they balance it in this moment, after they add anything. we will worry about this again. (unless developer plan to add Submarine very late)

14 minutes ago, ColonelHenry said:

 the 8inch simply refused to fire

I forget something to report.

I notice that "7~9 inch gun seldom fire" problem is not only happened on Cruiser's main gun.

If your BB has 7 and 8 inch sec guns with many others small gun (2~5 inch), they are seldom fire too.

Too many guns fire at once will interfere 7~9 inch gun fire, no matter it is main gun or sec gun.

So if your Baltimore want to fire main gun, maybe turn off the sec gun. main gun should fire at well.