Doubloons is currency and should be exchanged not sold

[kaneguy]

Doubloons in currency, it is gold coins that should have specific value like Real money (silver coins). I should not be allowed to be sold in the market place but exchanged at the going rate with Real currency set by the local government or township. I've seen doubloons being sold from 30 to 400 reals at the market this makes it impossible to estimate the cost of building ships where the it is used extensively. With a set value known doubloons can flow between the PVP players and the craft/trader players stabilizing the economy. Here is an example. To build a Level 3 shipyard it takes 5000 doubloons. The default value of a doubloons is 4 reals so that would be 20,000. If you had to buy doubloons on the market at 400 ea that would be 20,000,000. This is bit extreme but you get the drift. Goods, resources, ships and even services should be sold at the market priced by supply and demand but not currency (Doubloons). Instead there should be an exchange window in the market where doubloons/reals can be exchanged at a set rate.

It is more difficult for players preferring trading and crafting than to PVP players to accumulate doubloons. By setting an exchange would open up the trading/crafting economy,

[Draymoor]

Needed asap.

[vazco]

Basically you're asking to implement something which was done by dozens governments around the world - usually authoritarian regimes - and never worked

You can't set a price of a currency artificially. If you set it incorrectly (which almost always happens), one of the currencies will loose it's value completely. Since doublons change price in time due to supply and demand, their "real" price will also fluctuate, so there's no way to set it to a stable one

If you would like to have a predefined price for ship crafting in reals, doublons would have to be exchanged to reals in ship crafting  No point of having two currencies, with a fixed exchange rate.

[Angus MacDuff]

I'm not an economist (just an old sea dog), but isn't it just Dollars and Cents (Doubloons and Reals).  Two values of the same currency.

[Lovec1990]

1 minute ago, vazco said:

Basically you're asking to implement something which was done by dozens governments around the world - usually authoritarian regimes - and never worked

You can't set a price of a currency artificially. If you set it incorrectly (which almost always happens), one of the currencies will loose it's value completely. Since doublons change price in time due to supply and demand, their "real" price will also fluctuate, so there's no way to set it to a stable one

If you would like to have a predefined price for ship crafting in reals, doublons would have to be exchanged to reals in ship crafting  No point of having two currencies, with a fixed exchange rate.

True but still some some of system needs to be devised too prevent crazy prices:

example:

item is worth 30 reals in shop(NPC seller) but player can only chooses value from 10 to 50 it will fix all crazy prices

 

[Draymoor]

16 minutes ago, vazco said:

Basically you're asking to implement something which was done by dozens governments around the world - usually authoritarian regimes - and never worked

You can't set a price of a currency artificially. If you set it incorrectly (which almost always happens), one of the currencies will loose it's value completely. Since doublons change price in time due to supply and demand, their "real" price will also fluctuate, so there's no way to set it to a stable one

If you would like to have a predefined price for ship crafting in reals, doublons would have to be exchanged to reals in ship crafting  No point of having two currencies, with a fixed exchange rate.

There is a point because they aren't obtained in the same way, or by the same players. Some obtain more doubloons and some more reales. This is a game, no point in comparing it to a government. The only way this would cause doubloons to lose their value is if there's massive inflation of reales, which would ruin the economy and should be prevented anyway. 

[vazco]

10 minutes ago, Angus MacDuff said:

I'm not an economist (just an old sea dog), but isn't it just Dollars and Cents (Doubloons and Reals).  Two values of the same currency.

Nope  All currencies are driven by supply and demand. In case of reals supply is mostly time that people want to put into trading, and demand is mostly about resources. This value is pretty stable.

In case of doublons supply is mostly about how much time people are willing to spend grinding Patrol Zones in 3-6th rates, or grinding missions. Demand is mostly how often people sink in an expensive 1st rates (one battle can cost as much as 225 000 doublons).

Both currencies change value in different time and can have very strange ratios to each other, depending on the situation.

If you artificially stabilize it, one currency will just become worthless - either people won't trade with unproffitable rates, or if there's an artificial supply, will buy out currency on proffitable rates, dumping it's real value to the ground.

 

12 minutes ago, Lovec1990 said:

item is worth 30 reals in shop(NPC seller) but player can only chooses value from 10 to 50 it will fix all crazy prices

This was also tried in history, unfortunately never worked

[kaneguy]

Here is a short break down of the monetary system. The real (meaning: "royal", plural: reales) was a unit of currency in Spain. This was replaced by the escudo which was worth 16 reales. Gold coins where introduced valued with .5x, 1x, 2x, 4x,, 8x escudos. Doubloon (from Spanish doblón, meaning "double") was a two-escudo or 32-real gold coin.

As I stated prior doubloons is a currency denomination of reales. Similar to the dollar, 5-dollar, 10-dollar, 20-dollar bills etc. This was never intended to be sold on the open market like goods. Historically a boubloon was a 32 reales gold coin how can sell it for anything more. It would be like selling a $20 dollar bill for $40. Of course in a game you can do anything you like but it is incorrect and diminishes the economy growth and of course player enjoyment for the traders and crafters.

[Barbancourt]

Are "Piastres" still going to appear, or was that dumped completely? 

 

[Raf Van Boom]

Well the coins had actual value as they were made from precious materials!

[Barbancourt]

19 minutes ago, Le Raf Boom said:

Well the coins had actual value as they were made from precious materials!

"Actual", but also highly variable. 

[greybuscat]

9 hours ago, vazco said:

You can't set a price of a currency artificially. If you set it incorrectly (which almost always happens), one of the currencies will loose it's value completely. Since doubloons change price in time due to supply and demand, their "real" price will also fluctuate, so there's no way to set it to a stable one

 

You're muddying the waters with this. A quarter is always worth 5 nickels. No one is asking for goods to be a set price, just for a stable exchange rate between the two currencies. If you think that's a bad idea, explain why, preferably without going off-topic with your personal political and economic views that simply have no place in a video game.

I mean, why even bring up the real world when we're all using reals? Shouldn't it be pounds, dollars, marks, etc?

EDIT: Wrote "quarters" twice which, though funny, didn't make much sense.

Edited November 22, 2018 by greybuscat

[vazco]

19 minutes ago, greybuscat said:

If you think that's a bad idea, explain why, preferably without going off-topic with your personal political and economic views that simply have no place in a video game.

Dude, I hope devs will try this idea  Maybe then some people like you will learn that some rules of economics are just that - rules, and not personal views  It's better to learn it here, rather than if you would eg vote for a party which would try this in real life, ruining lives of people

I explained this good enough in previous posts

 

[Draymoor]

24 minutes ago, vazco said:

Dude, I hope devs will try this idea  Maybe then some people like you will learn that some rules of economics are just that - rules, and not personal views  It's better to learn it here, rather than if you would eg vote for a party which would try this in real life, ruining lives of people

I explained this good enough in previous posts

 

The massive amount of emotes in your posts kind of says you don't have much of real value to say, rather just making noise. 

[Barbancourt]

39 minutes ago, Draymoor said:

The massive amount of emotes in your posts kind of says you don't have much of real value to say, rather just making noise. 

😂🤣😜👺👍👜🐩

[Draymoor]

23 minutes ago, Barbancourt said:

😂🤣😜👺👍👜🐩

Shhh!

[Farrago]

@vazco I think what’s confusing you is you are mistaking real-world artificial currency valuation with game conditions. Firstly, you don’t need to worry about that. We are waaaaay off from free floating currency markets and supply/demand market based economy. For example, we have artificial demand for trade goods and artificial both buy and sell pricing. All labor is of the same value no matter who’s hours they are not what they are being used for. Production capacity is fixed only by demand, not by supply. Supply of money is random. The list goes on and on.

Anyway, you are correct that artificially pegging currency value in a real economy is bad. Our currency value in game has always been artificially set by the Devs although not in an organized or systematic way.

In any event, the proposal you are arguing against has nothing to do with currency value. It just says that reals should reflect some fraction of doubloons and be exchanged as such. An even better idea is just have ONE currency.

[vazco]

 

1 hour ago, Farrago said:

We are waaaaay off from free floating currency markets and supply/demand market based economy.

You have some good thinking in your post, however you're not considering everything.

It's not value of market goods which are driven by supply and demand (I agree, this is broken already), but value of currencies  Their value is based on how much effort you need to put to get them (supply), and what you need them for (demand). Demand is varied in time for doublons, but not for reals. After a big war, value of doublons will rise, and value of reals won't.

 

Reals are broken already. They don't have a significant true value if you know how to make them - you can get 2 mil per hour, which is probably enough for a month. Reals will probably have increased inflation once more people find out how to make them. Doubloons on the other hand still have value - that's why eg we don't have large RvR 1st rate battles yet.

Linking exchange rate between players would mean that noone would sell doubloons for an unprofitable fixed rate.

Linking currencies completely, or providing an endless supply of doubloons per given real cost, would on the other hand simply create economy of abundance. Since doubloons are right now linked with labour and books, nothing except for refits would have a true value. Only new guys would have issues with money, for old players economy wouldn't matter, only except for premium refits. Refits would be the only money sink, thanks to a limited supply. We had this already in the past, just less dangerous, as labour and books were not affected 

 

Your idea of one currency is good in general, however devs would need to stabilize demand and supply of currencies first to make it work.

 

2 hours ago, Draymoor said:

The massive amount of emotes in your posts

I guess you mean emotions, not emotes  Tbh, I don't have any - I don't care if I convince you or not. It's just the game

[Draymoor]

1 minute ago, vazco said:

 

I guess you mean emotions, not emotes  Tbh, I don't have any - I don't care if I convince you or not. It's just the game

No I did not. 

[vazco]

11 minutes ago, Draymoor said:

No I did not. 

Lol, then you have an interesting concept for judging value of the content 😋 😁😂

I guess, keep it up

[RedNeckMilkMan]

6 hours ago, greybuscat said:

You're muddying the waters with this. A quarter is always worth 5 nickels. No one is asking for goods to be a set price, just for a stable exchange rate between the two currencies. If you think that's a bad idea, explain why, preferably without going off-topic with your personal political and economic views that simply have no place in a video game.

I mean, why even bring up the real world when we're all using reals? Shouldn't it be pounds, dollars, marks, etc?

EDIT: Wrote "quarters" twice which, though funny, didn't make much sense.

From what I gather the dev's don't want you to be able to trade your way in to a 1st rate. They never have. If you want expensive toys you have to play all the aspects of the game which is the dev's goal. Most games do this to encourage players to be more than 1 dimensional players. 

Of course you can buy DaBlOoNs with reals from players but they set the price (same as marks in the previous patch)

A set exchange (generating the dabloons from thin air at the cost of reals) rate would devalue them in the same way Vic marks were devalued when they put those conversions in.

Whether that's bad or not I can't say. Inflation will always become an issue because there is no limit to the amount players can generate. I would think the goal is to slow the inflation as much as possible. Best way to do this would be giving players more stuff to buy i.e. paints, more dock upgrades, clan docks, clan warehouse, port upgrades.

Edited November 22, 2018 by RedNeckMilkMan