Combat Mechanics

[HachiRoku]

10.0 added alot of great stuff to game but it also broke speeds, added multi repairs and many other things I personalty dont like. The question is simple did you enjoy battles more pre 10.0 or after. 

Edited October 14, 2017 by HachiRoku

[Corona Lisa]

For me its not black or white.

I like that ships sink faster and broadsides feel more powerful.

 

I dislike multi repairs and I especially dislike rum, changing raking from being OP to almost making it useless. Using rum and restoring 100s of crew during boading sucks.

Also Cartahena Refit feels straight up unfair. In 1st rate battles most of your shots bounce even close range and with a good angle which is just BS imo.

[HachiRoku]

10 minutes ago, Jon Snow lets go said:

For me its not black or white.

I like that ships sink faster and broadsides feel more powerful.

 

I dislike multi repairs and I especially dislike rum, changing raking from being OP to almost making it useless. Using rum and restoring 100s of crew during boading sucks.

Also Cartahena Refit feels straight up unfair. In 1st rate battles most of your shots bounce even close range and with a good angle which is just BS imo.

that is not really the point of the topic. I want to get a serious discussion started about alot of flaws with ship balance and combat. There are things I like in 10.0 too but there are more cons than pros. You gave me 1 pro and 3 cons. That doesnt seem black or white.

Edited October 14, 2017 by HachiRoku

[Corona Lisa]

7 minutes ago, HachiRoku said:

that is not really the point of the topic. I want to get a serious discussion started about alot of flaws with ship balance and combat. There are things I like in 10.0 too but there are more cons than pros. You gave me 1 pro and 3 cons. That doesnt seem black or white.

Thought u wanted to discuss combat mechanics, but seems like u just want to hear that it sucks

[Liq]

Things I like:

• Structure
• bottom-mast-sections being more tough

Things I dislike

• Speed meta (which exists due to there being dozens of speed mods; just remove them all except copper plating (which makes sense) and maybe speed trim with -10% HP, worked out perfectly well before the big wipe)
• Repairspamming
• Kite-and-force-enemy-to-use-all-repairs-playstyle
• Wasa being placed at such a low BR and having OP amarment / armor / speed combo. at its class

Edited October 14, 2017 by Liq

[Guest]

39 minutes ago, Jon Snow lets go said:

For me its not black or white.

I like that ships sink faster and broadsides feel more powerful.

 

I dislike multi repairs and I especially dislike rum, changing raking from being OP to almost making it useless. Using rum and restoring 100s of crew during boading sucks.

Also Cartahena Refit feels straight up unfair. In 1st rate battles most of your shots bounce even close range and with a good angle which is just BS imo.

I couldn't agree more.. 

[HachiRoku]

8 minutes ago, Peter Goldman said:

I like the new changes of structure, demasting and multi-repairs, but as I suggested before - repair cooldown should be longer (15 mins) and rum efficiency decreased to 60-80% and speed recovery also decreased. A doctor is not a necromancer. All ships should be balanced in terms of BR and statistics (some became useless) and most speed mods should be removed. Only copper plating (with copper ore as game resource, not RNG mod), studding sails and extra staysails (hard to get mods, maybe only from sealed bottles + deadman chest, port battle rewards and sank fleet event).

a carpenter is also not a magician. Why balance ships based on BR when we should be balancing BR to ships. A connie will never and should never beat an aggy, inger or a wasa. Every ship should have the same sailing profile and guns as they had in real life. You cant really balance the ships themselves in my opinion.  Certain ships are simply better than others and you cant take a ship like the Endymion and make here a terrible sailor. 

[HachiRoku]

24 minutes ago, rediii said:

biased poll is biased.

 

 

Biased? its a simply question I dont get what you mean. Either you like it or not

[HachiRoku]

Just now, Peter Goldman said:

What I meant is that BR of the ships should be changed base on the real performance of the ships. Indefatigable has same BR as Wasa.

Youre 100% right I know but when I speak of balance I mean the way the ships sail and turn. 

So how you you "balance" the trinc or endymion. Both of them were great sailors, both of them were faster than the suprise or most other 5th rates close hauled in game. The connie was designed to outrun any ship that outgunned it but it cant ingame.

[Farrago]

46 minutes ago, Jon Snow lets go said:

For me its not black or white.

I like that ships sink faster and broadsides feel more powerful.

 

I dislike multi repairs and I especially dislike rum, changing raking from being OP to almost making it useless. Using rum and restoring 100s of crew during boading sucks.

Also Cartahena Refit feels straight up unfair. In 1st rate battles most of your shots bounce even close range and with a good angle which is just BS imo.

Yes. 

36 minutes ago, HachiRoku said:

that is not really the point of the topic. I want to get a serious discussion started about alot of flaws with ship balance and combat. There are things I like in 10.0 too but there are more cons than pros. You gave me 1 pro and 3 cons. That doesnt seem black or white.

Can't answer the poll because the questions are not equal. One has to choose that pre10 was better in most ways or post10 is worse in every way.

@Jon Snow lets go has pointed out some of the problems with post 10 but to say that it is worse in every way would be inaccurate in my opinion. It's better for ship customization for example.

The problem post 10 or post 11 patch is the Devs never seem to tweak game elements nor do they just add/remove one thing. They make massive, sweeping changes in mechanics all at once which make it extremely difficult to evaluate what is going right and what is going wrong.

[HachiRoku]

Just now, Peter Goldman said:

Surprise should have thicker masts, turns much better than trinc and endy, has 4 stern chasers and could be fast at 90 degrees like before. Trinc, Essex and Endy should get better sailing profiles profiles.

close hauled is 90 degrees. You say they should balance the ships based on real performance but the trinc did 10 knots at 90 and the Endymion 11 I believe. Im not sure how fast the unite(suprise) was but I doubt she would be that fast.   

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Endymion_(1797)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leda-class_frigate

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, Peter Goldman said:

real performance in game, not realistic. 

As I've been shouting in numerous threads about the beautifull and sorely mishandled Endymion.. To suffer such fate after being the most famous of the RN frigates..

[HachiRoku]

Just now, Peter Goldman said:

real performance in game, not realistic. 

the issue with that is that the real performance in game is not good at all. A suprise shouldnt be able to stern camp a Trinc or an Endymion even. The smaller 5th rates have a far higher turn rate compared to the larger 5th rates. There is no need to make surprises turn that much better than larger 5th rates because a surprise is not a match for ships those sizes. The 5th rates make a sudden jump from a turn rate of almost 4 to turn rate of about 2.5. Would you be like to fight a suprise in a trinc without attacking sail or demasting? You will be raked to 100 crew in no time and then hugged and sank in most cases. A trinc shouldnt need to attack sail to avoid stern rakes because it shouldn't be possible that it gets outturned that much. 

[HachiRoku]

2 minutes ago, rediii said:

because of your answers.

 

All in all I like the mechanic now more. Up the CD maybe a few minutes more but rest is fine TBH

its not really about the questions as ive said to jon. Its about the discussion and im not happy about my aggressive uninstalling topic. I could of handled that one better tbf

[HachiRoku]

1 minute ago, Peter Goldman said:

If a ship is trying to stern camp you, you can easly bow rake it and destroy crew/cannons/structure and front mast or try to demast it.

Did you read what I said? I couldnt beat myself in a trinc vs suprise without attacking sail. That is a problem. 

[HachiRoku]

Just now, Peter Goldman said:

Then you're doing something wrong. Trincomalee has a superior firepower and armour. Turn rate can be improved with mods. 1-2 decent broadsides and surprise will be totally demasted, easy to kill.

Again what do you not understand about "not attacking sail"

I can demast a suprise formast 30secs into battle if im lucky. I shouldnt have to. That is the issue. Being forced to demast suprises is the reason the good player are able to sealclub the  newbies with them. Demasting is hard to do if youre not that good a player

[HachiRoku]

5 minutes ago, Peter Goldman said:

Then you're doing something wrong. Trincomalee has a superior firepower and armour. Turn rate can be improved with mods. 1-2 decent broadsides and surprise will be totally demasted, easy to kill.

myself and liqy tested the trinc vs smaller lower profile ships. We agreed no to demast. His ship was outurning me, taking faster and faster into wind at 60% sail. How am I supposed to kill him if Im not able to catch him? You know I can sail and that I understand the wind. Downwind speed is not an advantage in naval combat unless youre running. You cant win a battle if your opponents ship is that overpowered into the wind. The ship that is upwind always has the choice when he can engage, if he will engage and how engage. If a trinc cant take the wind of a surpise with 60-70% sail there is an issue. I do not think a ship like the endymion should HAVE to demast 2 masts of a suprise so it is capable of taking its wind. 

[HachiRoku]

22 minutes ago, Peter Goldman said:

If someone in a bigger ship can't beat smaller, he does not deserve to sail big ships yet. I captured dozens of 1st rates that had no idea what to do. People just grind levels to max rank and sail biggest ships without understanding how to use them. PvP Learning has several stages:

1. Learn how to defend yourself and survive fights
2. Learn how to beat off your enemies
3. Learn how to secure your prize. Beating off enemies is not enough, make sure you kill them

so you think its ok a suprise has a turn rate of 3.52, a trinc of 2.56 and victory 2.14? Makes no sense to me

Edited October 14, 2017 by HachiRoku

[HachiRoku]

15 minutes ago, rediii said:

why should every ship only be killable by shooting hull?

Doesnt that make the game less skillbased?

why should every battle be winnable by demasted?

Doesnt that make the game less skillbased?

You dont get the point im making rediii and im tryed of explaining. Maybe you should sail these ships more and test more like I do

[CaptVonGunn]

I thought you left? Why are you still posting?

 

[seanjo]

If I win it's great, if I lose it sucks.....usually it sucks!

[monk33y]

I hate that fireshiping has now become a lottery. 

Before I could rock in a fireship. Guarantee to go bang. 

Now, it's 50/50 will the fire even start!!!

But I do like that a single frigate can demast 2 victorys...

[Liq]

2 hours ago, monk33y said:

But I do like that a single frigate can demast 2 victorys...

topmast sections probably yes, maybe even medium sections with 18 pounders double charge (?), but anything else I dont really see happening

[John Cavanaugh]

13 minutes ago, Liq said:

topmast sections probably yes, maybe even medium sections with 18 pounders double charge (?), but anything else I dont really see happening

 

you and monk3y should become more closely aquainted

Edited October 15, 2017 by John Cavanaugh

[Guest]

8 hours ago, Peter Goldman said:

2. Learn how to beat off your enemies

3. Learn how to secure your prize. Beating off enemies is not enough, make sure you kill them

Giggity.