Frigates - spirit sail

[admin]

Hello everyone.. Someone have noted that USS Constitution have not carried a spirit sail (under bowsprit) - and there are no visual references that it did.

We have all frigates equipped with one. Is it correct and in what circumstances spirit sails were used on frigates between 1700 and 1830? 

[Captain Flint]

Spritsails were not in use from early XIXth century all over the world.
The USS Constitution did not carry the spritsail from 1803 after the first repair.
In the Russian Navy spritsails were not in use from 1806.

[admin]

Spritsails were not in use from early XIXth century all over the world.

The USS Constitution did not carry the spritsail from 1803 after the first repair.

In the Russian Navy spritsails were not in use from 1806.

 

but it could carry it right?

[BrutishVulgarian]

From paintings, they seem to be only on old fashioned ships.

"Until 1800". I know it's only Wikipedia, but it seems reasonable, that golden age ships sacrificed spritsails for structural reinforcement, "dolphin striker/martingale boom" might have made a spritsail unusable.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spritsail_(square-rigged)

And the Germans who called them blinds were correct.

[Captain Flint]

but it could carry it right?

No.

During the first repair the standing rigging of the USS Constitution's bowsprit was modified.

Therefore, the spritsail could no longer be used.

[Mirones]

can we get to use them with Q and E together with the for mast that would make them more usefull than currently?

[maturin]

Constitution definitely carried no spritsail. Remember this famous chase? http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/h85000/h85542k.jpg

They are hanging out every scrap of canvas that they have, including the cook's handkerchief. But no spritsail.

 

That's because the rigging that leads from the martingale/dolphinstriker (that short vertical bar in flint's picture) gets in the way of where a spritsail would set.

 

Some ships, like HMS Victory, have the martingale stay set up in a different way, which enables them to set a spritsail. But only one, the larger, lower one. That means that Victory needs to lose that second spritsail of hers, the smaller one partway up the bowsprit. The yard can stay but the sail should be deleted.

 

Here's an embarrassingly bad MS Paint explanation of Victory's bowsprit rigging: http://i.imgur.com/zexoIBz.jpg

So she has a martingale, yet can still set a spritsail.

 

And here is Constitution, which has a martingale which prevents carrying a spritsail: http://imgur.com/6lS8RDF

 

If these images are correct, Trincomalee has the same no-spritsail setup: http://hms-trincomalee.co.uk/historic/leda/the-leda-class-frigate.php

In fact, I think Trincomalee's artist made the martingale enormously oversized in order to accommodate the spritsail. I sympathize with his confusion.

 

And now a test, to see if you were paying attention and can interpret my terrible MS Paint creations! Can Surprise carry a spritsail, yes or no?

https://svmoondance.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/dsc02103.jpg

[Sir. Cunningham]

 

And now a test, to see if you were paying attention and can interpret my terrible MS Paint creations! Can Surprise carry a spritsail, yes or no?

https://svmoondance.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/dsc02103.jpg

 

Yes, looks like she can set a low one

[Captain Armstrong]

Certainly not after 1803 http://home.comcast.net/~iver.franzen/ConstitSailScan.jpg and quite likely not at all, they were quite old-fashioned by the time of her launch-though the French kept using them longer than Americans or Brits, accordingly having more steeply raked bowsprits to give them sufficient wind.

[maturin]

There are too many Surprises around.

The replica can set a spritsail, at any rate.

Is the in-game version created using Unite's draught and the replica's rig and style?

[Henry d'Esterre Darby]

Isn't the "replica" heavily adapted from an existing ship that wasn't very close to the real Surprise/La Unite?? Or am I thinking about a different movie ship?

Edit - Just found it - the movie Surprise is HMS Rose, a replica of a 20 gun British Post-ship. It's late, I also see what you're referencing Maturin. Nevermind!

[Captain Armstrong]

There are too many Surprises around.

The replica can set a spritsail, at any rate.

Is the in-game version created using Unite's draught and the replica's rig and style?

Knowing the lines of the unite fairly well from paintings, models, and examining the draught fairly often, it seems to me that they built the hull of the unite, and then modified the headrails to look like those of the movie surprise, and built the stern entirely differently to look like the movie surprise. Quite clever really, makes it instantly recognizable to those who have only seen the movie, but gives it the firepower and characteristics one could expect from the historical ship.