Patch 11.0: New ships, Unity 5, Improved clan based conquest, and many other changes.

[vazco]

In my opinion we have huge problem with PvP. After initial interest in new patch faded, when I try to get people go to PvP, the response I get is "why bother". People see PvP as a huge risk of spending a lot of time not finding anyone. I think this desperately needs fixing. Below is an example how:

 

[admin]

4 minutes ago, vazco said:

In my opinion we have huge problem with PvP. After initial interest in new patch faded, when I try to get people go to PvP, the response I get is "why bother". People see PvP as a huge risk of spending a lot of time not finding anyone. I think this desperately needs fixing. Below is an example how:

 

pvp provide 2.5x more xp and 2х more money + 10х more fun. Human desire to avoid risk impossible to fix.
Players who want to find pvp could for example arrive to hostility generations

[vazco]

Just now, admin said:

pvp provide 2.5x more xp and 2х more money + 10х more fun. Human desire to avoid risk impossible to fix.

A real world result is that it doesn't provide more xp and money, as you can't find enemies to fight. Currently it provides only huge time loss. We need a system to simplify finding others wanting to fight.

[Rebrall]

Just now, admin said:

pvp provide 2.5x more xp and 2х more money + 10х more fun. Human desire to avoid risk impossible to fix.

well you are correct but, there is no players on either server in reality more players = more opportunity 

[vazco]

btw, people will accept risk once you give them a few factors:

• a chance to actually fight (right now it's sheer luck to find someone who is willing to fight you with reasonable odds. It happens once every 10 hours of PvP'ing)
• an option to fight for greater good (thus, increasing port income instead of a direct reward for you. You fight for your clan, not for you)
• an option for personal gain that rewards the risk (if we raid eg. Cartagena Tar port, everyone can get a meaningful reward)
• limitation of the risk (this was already done, as I can craft a Vic every two days, without anyone's help, spending 2 hours per day in a game)

[Sir Texas Sir]

5 minutes ago, admin said:

pvp provide 2.5x more xp and 2х more money + 10х more fun. Human desire to avoid risk impossible to fix.
Players who want to find pvp could for example arrive to hostility generations

The problems i by time you find out hostility is being generated and get your own fleet together and hunt the ships they are done with the four missions and back to port.  We really need some red pings on the map or better notification when agro starts in a region/area.  That and the battles are to wide spread from a port (cover a whole region) to not have a marker to let you easily know what regions/ports are currently being attacked.

[vazco]

8 minutes ago, admin said:

Players who want to find pvp could for example arrive to hostility generations

Hostility generation is damn boring. You fight bots for an average of 3 hours before some enemy reacts. Even then it's usually an uneven fight, where one side flees, and another one chases.

The solution that I proposed fixes this. It's a pure PvP event, not some RvE frankenstein. I would appreciate for you to actually read it  I want to help you improve your game.

Edited September 20, 2017 by vazco

[admin]

3 minutes ago, vazco said:

btw, people will accept risk once you give them a few factors:

• a chance to actually fight (right now it's sheer luck to find someone who is willing to fight you with reasonable odds. It happens once every 10 hours of PvP'ing)
• limitation of the risk (this was already done, as I can craft a Vic every two days, without anyone's help, spending 2 hours per day in a game)

NA pvp is a hunting game - you search for the target and get enjoyment on finding a target and doing things to a target.
What you are asking is the distilled experience which will be provided by NA Legends. 

Port battle rewards can of course be considered to bring back. But at this stage we believe that maximum effect would be achieved by UI and localization because thats the only thing stopping us from increasing marketing again.
 

[Vizzini]

Everybody knows where their enemies are, they are reluctant to build or attempt to create a base anywhere near their enemies for fear of getting their arses kicked. There is no need to build a base 4 hours sailing from everybody else when you really want PVP action

[vazco]

1 minute ago, admin said:

What you are asking is the distilled experience which will be provided by NA Legends. 

The problem is that it won't. NA Legends won't have any influence on OW, which gives some meaning to battles. When I speak with people who played during sea trials, many of them say they stopped testing, as fights were meaningless. Legends will hit a different audience than NA.

I would advice you to ask players what's the best part of the game. It's not only a combat, it's also it's link to something "bigger".

In a current stage it's impossible to find a target in a reasonable time, let alone a target that won't run from you and will fight. That's the problem. Looking at how swedish community looks, soon PvP (except for RvE frankenstein) will be very limited, if not dead.

[admin]

7 minutes ago, Vizzini said:

Everybody knows where their enemies are, they are reluctant to build or attempt to create a base anywhere near their enemies for fear of getting their arses kicked. There is no need to build a base 4 hours sailing from everybody else when you really want PVP action

i think you have something there. and we are sure NA legends will fix this problem. Players who want combat experience only will never be happy as any sailing time would be long compared to NA legends. 

Players who want age of sail experience or other things will then be able to help us develop the product without trying to cater to "i need a balanced no-risk pvp battle when i want it" group - because trying to satisfy everyone in one product gets no-one happy.

[Sir Texas Sir]

Just now, vazco said:

Hostility generation is damn boring. You fight bots for an average of 3 hours before some enemy reacts. Even then it's usually an uneven fight, where one side flees, and another one chases.

The solution that I proposed fixes this. I would appreciate for you to actually read it  I want to help you improve your game.

Are like we had where we had some US jump into our missions (against a neutral port as we where flipping Morgan Bluff) the other night.  They end up having us out gun as we where doing shallow waters mission in deep water ships, but w only brought 5th/4th rats.  They brought 5th-2nd rates.  We had a 1st rate (that was trying to solo flip Nassau on his own) that jump in at the middle and it ended up being captured.  Guess what we set up a trap for them to leave the deep water area of shallows (around Nassau) instead they used teleport to deep water port instead of sailing the Wasa and Victory out they had captured along with the ships.  SO there was no chance of a follow up fight.   

Oh and the main reason we lost the 1st rate  was the 3 basic cutters they brought that stern camped him while the Bucc keep distance on it's sails.  WHY ARE BASIC CUTTERS STILL ALLOWED IN PVP FIGHTS @admin?    These ships should not be allowed to join missions or be involved in any PVP.  Three Rear Admirals in ships that cost them nothing and have unlimited repair. I was able to sink one of them by the end, but all they would do is back off, repair, back off and repair why every one else was running out of repairs.  Personally I think basic cutters should only be able to be bought if you have ZERO ships (remember how fallback in POTBS worked?).  Though this is a topic for another thread.

 

Now here is my issue with the lock, right now you still have folks grabbing ports for there clans.  It's to early to lock the limit of the ports.  You should prob wait anther week or so.  We are the largest clan in our Nation and we basicly have to give up two port battle slots every night to small clans that have a few members that are just grabbing random ports instead of ports that are needed for the nation.  Our clan can do multi port battles in a day, but we are limited if we are lucky to one a night if even that isn't take before prime time for our players.  I can flip most ports even linships just by myself (though that is a bit harder).  Some of these small clans have tried and couldn't beat 6 ships but they locked us out of the port slot limit of 3.  Limit honestly needs to be open on neutral or until you can edit the system so that the limit only works on OWNED Player ports.

[vazco]

4 minutes ago, Vizzini said:

Everybody knows where their enemies are, they are reluctant to build or attempt to create a base anywhere near their enemies for fear of getting their arses kicked. There is no need to build a base 4 hours sailing from everybody else when you really want PVP action

Tell me where my enemies are then. I'm a Swede. From my experience, my enemies are only in protected areas, or sometimes grinding hostility in a place which I can't reach on time.

[Rebrall]

3 minutes ago, admin said:

Players who want age of sail experience or other things will then be able to help us develop the product without trying to cater to "i need a balanced no-risk pvp battle when i want it" group - because trying to satisfy everyone in one product gets no-one happy.

one is becoming one with the force !!!!!

[Sir Texas Sir]

7 minutes ago, admin said:

NA pvp is a hunting game - you search for the target and get enjoyment on finding a target and doing things to a target.
What you are asking is the distilled experience which will be provided by NA Legends. 

Port battle rewards can of course be considered to bring back. But at this stage we believe that maximum effect would be achieved by UI and localization because thats the only thing stopping us from increasing marketing again.
 

You know one reward many have been asking for.    PAINT CHEST....bring back paints until you have what ever your new system for Paints is.  It's a cheap none combat effecting reward that folks want and will trade and show up for.  Also drop them randomly in the shipwreck events (even the bottles too).

[vazco]

2 minutes ago, admin said:

Players who want age other things will then be able to help us develop the product without trying to cater to "i need a balanced no-risk pvp battle when i want it" group - because trying to satisfy everyone in one product gets no-one happy.

It's really sad to realize how you see my comment. It seems you didn't understand me. I don't want a no-risk PvP, I want any PvP in a reasonable time, which is not shooting someone's sails for 1 hours, or escaping from an enemy 3 times more numerous as me.

Ok, now I know you don't care for this. I can leave now.

[Vizzini]

Just now, vazco said:

Tell me where my enemies are then. I'm a Swede. From my experience, my enemies are only in protected areas, or sometimes grinding hostility in a place which I can't reach on time.

Well for starters I don't know which server you are on. If you are on global with me (Hilts  GB , solo player ) then perhaps look at Les Cayes, build a base there , you'll have Pirates Gb and Danes fairly close together with no protection zone

 

You know your own server better than me, I guess you are on Eu and sadly I have no clue as to the situation there, except you probably have more Swedes than global

 

People who want PVP need bases nearer to their enemies.

[admin]

3 minutes ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

You know one reward many have been asking for.    PAINT CHEST....bring back paints until you have what ever your new system for Paints is.  It's a cheap none combat effecting reward that folks want and will trade and show up for.  Also drop them randomly in the shipwreck events (even the bottles too).

what would be the reaction in general if paint chests were sold for pvp marks for example?
who would complain?

 

1 minute ago, vazco said:

It's really sad to realize how you see my comment. It seems you didn't understand me. I don't want a no-risk PvP, I want any PvP in a reasonable time, which is not shooting someone's sails for 1 hours, or escaping from an enemy 3 times more numerous as me.

Ok, now I know you don't care for this. I can leave now.

you did not get my response. 
example
we increased speed by 40% since last year (gradually) but players still complain about long travel times. There will always be a crowd who wants to get to content they enjoy faster… its impossible to satisfy everyone and sometimes its impossible to fix things because they work the way human psychology makes them work 

legends will give zero motivation to run and will actually force players to fight.
We can't do it in NA thus players shoot sails for 1 hour because they want to escape. I see people running from 3v2 constantly even when they are in better ships.

[Sir Texas Sir]

3 minutes ago, Vizzini said:

Well for starters I don't know which server you are on. If you are on global with me (Hilts  GB , solo player ) then perhaps look at Les Cayes, build a base there , you'll have Pirates Gb and Danes fairly close together with no protection zone

 

You know your own server better than me, I guess you are on Eu and sadly I have no clue as to the situation there, except you probably have more Swedes than global

 

People who want PVP need bases nearer to their enemies.

We are actually working on trying to get each nation a port in that region to do a PvP hotzone.  Prob do something like that in the shallows too.  Figure we as players might as well work on our own content since GLOBAL is like the bastard kid  of the game..Still not as bad as us red head step kids of the game (pirates lol).   

The map really should show red hot zones of PvP fights and agro going on in real time and that would help on folks knowing where to find PvP.

[Vizzini]

Just now, Sir Texas Sir said:

We are actually working on trying to get each nation a port in that region to do a PvP hotzone.  Prob do something like that in the shallows too.  Figure we as players might as well work on our own content since GLOBAL is like the bastard kid  of the game..Still not as bad as us red head step kids of the game (pirates lol).   

The map really should show red hot zones of PvP fights and agro going on in real time and that would help on folks knowing where to find PvP.

There is a map by @qw569 showing the hot zones from the combat news, I am hopeful this could be incorporated directly onto the world map

[admin]

2 minutes ago, Mrgoldstein said:

One of the problems with pvp is that often you end up with no rewards at all, i fought two enemies once managed to almost sink one,but he escaped a and i got sunk in the end..rewards for 1.5hour of fighting...0 rewards

Battle damage rewards need to be brought back, atleast xp/ship slot xp,who cares if some folks abuse it with alts..atleast let everyone get something out of it

people ran with rewards last year.. running was happening all over the place, there were even pvp event zones and paint chests and people still ran from battles where they had a decent chance to win.

[vazco]

The current issue is that there are many players in NA that don't want to shoot sails, but which still want to have a community, clan, and a something more meaningful that WoW in age of sails. There's just no mechanism for them to have a meaningful fight within 1h of logging in.

Sure, you can't make all players happy. From your post I can see though that you know that fun fights are the best part of your game. I don't understand why you don't want to create mechanisms that actually allow for them to happen. Right now they happen despite of other systems, from time to time. Game at this point discourages from such events. They happen only when leaders of two forces more or less agree on a fight and organize it.

Players which want to have only a pure fight will definitely move to Legends. I would bet that they're a minority though, and that Legends will get a different kind of players hooked in. NA players will probably play legends, however mostly to train. My guess is that many will still want to have current community, and link to a deeper meaning. If you fix NA, probably Legends will also give you many new players buying NA as well.

[Sir Texas Sir]

4 minutes ago, admin said:

what would be the reaction in general if paint chests were sold for pvp marks for example?
who would complain?

 

Stop trying to please every one, we don't have to give rewards out to every one if they don't work for them.  Every game i been on if you want the elite gear you had to go get the elite gear by killing the elite boss.  Yes you could get it by going to the auction house and paying for it, but still some one had to go grind that gear out in the first place.  If you give the same reward to every one even the folks that do nothing, than the rewards mean nothing.  Kinda like victory marks are a fail concept right now.  Whole nation get rewards for the hard work of a few.  Conquest Marks was a better system cause it rewarded those that actually did hard work to earn them.   The folks that are going to complain are going to complain any way.  They are the same folks that sit in ports and won't come out and fight to protect a port and than complain that there nation lost the port.  You can't make every one happy.  I also gave a PvE means to give out the rewards too.  Put them in the shipwreck event chest too.  Make them tradeable so if some one wants them bad enough they can pay for it.  It's not like we have a shortage of money right now. YOu have way to much content locked behind PvE and nothing is rewarded for RvR or PvP.  Why do I have to grind AI to get mods and ship knowledge I should be getting through PvP too?  When you had the split mark system you could of had proper rewards for those players that did PvP over those that don't.  I'm sorry once again you want the elite gear, you need to get the elite missions/bosses done to earn them or pay some one that has done them.

Not to mention paints don't make any one OP as the biggest complaint about locking content behind PvP and RvR rewards is that only the elite get them.  A pink Santi kills some one just as good as a bland none painted one.  Just looks better while doing it.

[vazco]

14 minutes ago, Vizzini said:

Well for starters I don't know which server you are on. If you are on global with me (Hilts  GB , solo player ) then perhaps look at Les Cayes, build a base there , you'll have Pirates Gb and Danes fairly close together with no protection zone

I have bases in all hotzones. There's very small likelihood to find someone there. There's no single place where you can find PvP'ing players on OW. I'm on EU server.

[vazco]

17 minutes ago, rediii said:

Problem he is deycribing is not realy that

hostilitymechanic (even though its better as ever before) took away the get online and get pvp element of the flagmechanic. 

Hostilitymissions are still too far away and it takes a too short time to notice and organize a fleet for the defenders. It should not take longer than right now though so it doesnt get a pain to so for attackers like before. Right now you grind 30 min with a big enough group which is fine.

Defenders need a tool to see it early that someone is doing hostility

Missions need to get closer to the targetport.

That still doesnt fix instant action like mechanic like the flags. In my oppinion Naval Action lacks content for smaller groups, right now every rvr action is based around 25 ppl. If you show up with less you will get ganked like yesterday the X clan in point a pitre.

NA needs a mechanic for smaller groups for "instant" action. Imagine raids with the flagmechanic. Flags create a portbattle 8vs8 or 12vs12 or something like this and attackers aswell as defenders get a nice reward in form of taxmoney, paint, whatever.

Flag is bought with cm, event pops up if flag is getting placed (takes 5 min to placed, not cancelable) and then battle is started

 

the smaller the groups are the more these events will happen. I think it would be a pretty successfull mechanic used by many guys to get balanced pvp aswell as rewards for doing it. Can be created hostility too so if they win 50%✓or more hostility is created. 

I can see that you understand me