Please do something about revenge fleets and teleport instafleets

[Mrdoomed]

Since the advent of no cooldown teleports revenge fleets have become the bane of this game. This has caused more solo or casual or oart time gamers to quit then anything else ive heard complaint about.

Since @admin has decided that no cooldown teleports are here to say that has essentially made EVERY enemy port the capital regardless how far from the real capital is. Once the power creep sets back in and everyone ( and thier alts) have outposts all over it makes EVERYWHERE you play within a few minutes of where you are in battle the enemy capital.

Because most battles take 20 or more minutes there is really no difference between camping KPR or fighting near Belize since all players in game can blink anywhere while you are busy in battle.

This was why i quit, along with countless others, pre big new patch. Now i decided to try the new version and sailed one hour away from my capital to set up a place to play and while I was playing in the cutter i saw a brit player who ran from me ( wtf) but within about 5 or 6 minutes comming from the other direction was 4 of his clan mates to get me. I turned around and behind me was the original brit and his little group. So if I would have been in battle I would have been ganked by a teleport clan/fleet. How is this fun for anyone?

All this for me in a cutter and i was OVER an hour sail from kpr but teleports made it not matter. They chased me to a port and camped me so i logged off.

Is this the gameplay the way its supposed to be? I cant imagine it is and ive seen hundreds of solutions to fix revenge fleets but nothing stops it. Since teleport at will is here to stay why cant you PLEASE fix revenge fleets or just let us teleport at will from sea too cuz this is just unfun.

Edited June 6, 2017 by Mrdoomed

[Liq]

Plenty of pages to read through. I completely agree with you. Why give someone a second chance after you escaped in the original instance? That someone being able to use hyper warp to pretty much spawn on top of your battle.

 

[Liq]

Just now, Rickard said:

revenge fleet are just not something that you can avoid. if you attack a player he's gonna come back with more players to kill you,  that's just human nature period

And poor game mechanics

[maturin]

Quote

that's just human nature period.

No, it's an undesirable side effect of server technology and the result of time compression discrepancies.

It's bad gameplay and unrealistic.

 

Perhaps people exiting battle should be given a brief boost of speed as well as invisibility.

[Liq]

Just now, Rickard said:

not really , i would find it pretty predictable that the player I just tried to blow to oblivion is gonna come back with friends to kill me.

Using hyper warp technology (OW speed boost) + Teamspeak in the age of sails, right?
If you can't see this is being unrealistic and needs fixing ASAP, it's pointless to discuss this

[Mrdoomed]

21 minutes ago, Rickard said:

Naval Action is a hard/core game now... 

revenge fleet are not an issue anymore because there part of life in this game, so you really don't have a basis to stand on here. revenge fleet are just not something that you can avoid. if you attack a player he's gonna come back with more players to kill you,  that's just human nature period.

the devs are also creating a different game for people like you wich will be somewhat like World of Warships or you could just join the "carebear" server PVP EU  (THAT WAS A JOKE).

 

 

 

 

A game with unlimited teleport for free is NOT hardcore 

[Liq]

4 minutes ago, Rickard said:

ok, what is this guy his issue? that revenge fleets exist in this game or the fact that there used to be mechanics that favored the defender (like a speed boost and an end battle result screen)

furthermore yes, of course, TS and OW speed boost are unrealistic but the game would not really get any more fun if you had to sail with a real live time and speed because it would take you multiple real live days of travel in the game to get anywhere

ofc you cant make it 100% realistic, but there needs to be a balance; basically as it is right now there is not much reason for me to play, because if you're in a frigate or higher (except the surp), you are pretty much doomed to loose your ship after having a good battle, due to the revenge fleets

10/10

[Neptune]

25 minutes ago, Rickard said:

Naval Action is a hard/core game now... 

revenge fleet are not an issue anymore because there part of life in this game, so you really don't have a basis to stand on here. revenge fleet are just not something that you can avoid. if you attack a player he's gonna come back with more players to kill you,  that's just human nature period.

the devs are also creating a different game for people like you wich will be somewhat like World of Warships or you could just join the "carebear" server PVP EU  (THAT WAS A JOKE).

 

 

 

 

So hardcore that it's unrealistic.

Enemy is in battle, you can sail right up to them and sit on their location without them seeing you. 

You can re tag over and over even though enemy has escaped.

You can call for help on teamspeak like back in the day. (which totally happened btw).  

 

[Liq]

14 minutes ago, Rickard said:

oke fair enough I totally get that, so what do you want to change to stop this from happening? (keep in mind that attacking an enemy player in front of their capital is not really that smart and you're basically asking the enemy to attack you because even you would revenge gang an enemy player if it were close to your capital or immediate Vicinity)

Alright let me sum it up

I first suggested the following:
Make (a slightly tweaked) Signaling Perk a default game mechanic, but with a 2 minute join timer. So in the first 2 minutes, anything in sight can join, as it should be. 2 minutes is more or less the magic number of this game. Can't attack anything for 2 min after leaving port; tow to port is 2 min, etc.. So you cant leave a port and then join an active pvp battle, this just doesn't match IMO. After that, signaling rules apply, and reinforcement can join until the BR is matched for quite a while.
But: Also tweak Signaling, so that the defending side can bring in 20% ish additional BR; this would hurt the ganking squads around a capital. 
Examples:

• 5 Frigs attacking 1 Frig - For the first two minutes, anything can join the battle - After that, if nothing joined, the 1 Frig sitll can bring in 4 (or 5 with the tweaked signaling version) frigates as support. This would encourage proper PvP, and as combat is what this game really shines at, I think that would help a lot. Also stops the stupid 10v1 ganks outside a nations capital.
• 1 Frig attacking 1 Frig - For the first two minutes, anything can join the battle - After that, the 1 Frigate technically can bring in +20% BR, but as in this case this would be pretty much nothing, they could take out their fair ish fight

To me it just seems anything NOT in view range of where the initial battle started (2 ish minutes) should not be able to join (except the signaling rule). 5 min Timers are disgusting.

However, a few have brought up the thought of "WHY BALANCE AN OW IN AN OW MMO??!" --- Well then, lets just have a 2 min timer as this is most realistic and forget about the whole signaling idea - is that any better?

After battle, you're done with the fight, when you started the tag, there were no ships around. No possibilites for the captain to call for help to other captains in that time frame - Revenge fleets are totally redundant. Bring back "exit to port" after battle.

Why give anyone a second chance, when you ESCAPED? Endless series of battle instances - I've got better things to do

Guess who this quote was from?

Quote

If you escaped the battle you no longer will be placed in the same spot in the open world - if you escaped you escaped. No need to try to give someone a second chance to get you. To do so we will give the player the option to either exit to the open world or teleport him to the certain friendly port (for example nearest friendly port).  That's what would real life captain would do in case of certain danger - try to escape to the nearest friendly port. Thus the player will have lets say 5 mins to decide if he wants to exit to the OW, if he did not make this choice he will be escape to port. 

Edited June 6, 2017 by Liquicity

[Mrdoomed]

20 minutes ago, Rickard said:

I agree.

what are you trying to achieve here ATM, cause i thought you were against revenge fleets like the "nagging" French on PVP EU

There needs to be balance or fairness.  If every player on the map can teleport to me while im in stasis (aka battle) and kill me via a cheesy stupid mechanic like no cooldown teleports then i need to be able to teleport away or log off after battle.

As it was pre wipe and will be again once players are established there is zero reason for me to fight. I can get one battle then im surrounded by 20 ships who will repeatedly tag me till i eventually lose. Put a 4 hour cooldown on ALL teleports then at least if they want me dead that bad then they are stuck a hour away from home. As it sits now they pop in kill me then go back to sitting in kpr or ct or wherever. 

[Liq]

lol dont even bother

this was brought up way before the wipe hit, couple of more times since it did

[Neptune]

See what they are doing right now is giving revenge fleets a free victory without them even having to give any effort.

This way if these people who can't cope with losing a battle can get instant revenge, they won't quit. They get their free victory handed to them just for losing, doesn't really make sense but It's stopping me from even bothering with NA at the moment. Hopefully they fix, very doubtful though.  

[Niels Terkildsen]

24 minutes ago, Liquicity said:

I first suggested the following:
Make (a slightly tweaked) Signaling Perk a default game mechanic, but with a 2 minute join timer. So in the first 2 minutes, anything in sight can join, as it should be. 2 minutes is more or less the magic number of this game. Can't attack anything for 2 min after leaving port; tow to port is 2 min, etc.. So you cant leave a port and then join an active pvp battle, this just doesn't match IMO. After that, signaling rules apply, and reinforcement can join until the BR is matched for quite a while.
But: Also tweak Signaling, so that the defending side can bring in 20% ish additional BR; this would hurt the ganking squads around a capital. 

Like I suggested in another thread, I still think, if the signalling perk mechanic is to be integrated permanently, it should have a time limit. I'd suggest an extra 3 minutes on top of the 2 minutes; not only is it more realistic (for a battle to stay open for up to half an hour or more is just preposterous), it also balances out the 20-25% extra BR that the defenders could potentially get... Attacking in a crowded area like close to KPR will probably result in you being outnumbered, but if you're further away, you won't get ridiculously late joiners.

I also had some suggestions for the revenge fleet issue in the post I linked above.

[Mrdoomed]

35 minutes ago, Neptune said:

See what they are doing right now is giving revenge fleets a free victory without them even having to give any effort.

This way if these people who can't cope with losing a battle can get instant revenge, they won't quit. They get their free victory handed to them just for losing, doesn't really make sense but It's stopping me from even bothering with NA at the moment. Hopefully they fix, very doubtful though.  

Spot on, and in a few months once the new patch dust settles we will or they will be down to 50 guys teleporting back and forth in revenge ganks.

I swear at times it seems like they are purposely running off anyone who isnt just gaming the game or using exploits as regular ways to play. 

I mean how f'ing hard is it to end revenge fleets?? Its super easy and yet they do nothing.  I think stubborn pride is behind it personally. 

[Mrdoomed]

20 minutes ago, Niels Terkildsen said:

Like I suggested in another thread, I still think, if the signalling perk mechanic is to be integrated permanently, it should have a time limit. I'd suggest an extra 3 minutes on top of the 2 minutes; not only is it more realistic (for a battle to stay open for up to half an hour or more is just preposterous), it also balances out the 20-25% extra BR that the defenders could potentially get... Attacking in a crowded area like close to KPR will probably result in you being outnumbered, but if you're further away, you won't get ridiculously late joiners.

I also had some suggestions for the revenge fleet issue in the post I linked above.

Hell they could even break the map into time zones and if a player teleports across the map ( like a 4 day game travel) then he cant attack anyone in the new zone he teleports into until the timer counts down to equal out the time traveled....did i say that right? Of course thats difficult and convoluted and it would be way easier to put a 2 hour cooldown on teleports but teleports are here to stay so im grasping at straws.

 

[Tiedemann]

We need national TP and I'm against placing a cool down on it. Especially when you guys are suggestion it just because you want to solo sail into enemy territory get some easy PvP and then be able to sail back home safely. I do not see an issue with revenge fleets. If you are to close to or inside enemy territory you should expect and be prepared for it. We do not have coordinates so the battles are harder to find. We are also invisible for 60 sec when leaving, so if you just run in the not so stupidly obvious direction you escape odds will improve a lot. If the revenge fleet have you perfectly surrounded, then you where "flying to close to the sun". 

Why is 5 or 2 min the only option for join timer? It is 180 seconds in between there..  Just make sure that the "Can't enter battle for X seconds" we get after leaving port/battle is = to the join timer.  
I miss the small tag circle with the massive drag circle that instant closed, because it gave me more possibility's when I was hunted and outnumbered. I also considered it more realistic. I would not mind if it stayed open for more players to join either, as long as they spawn far, far away. Preferable in the battle horizon somewhere..
But I have a feeling I'm the only one who miss the small and large circles, so as a plan B I would argument for a 3 min join timer. If you are in a large ship and the wind is bad you need it. If you can see the battle start, you should be able to enter it no mater what IMO.

I also agree that having some sort of signaling as standard ROE would improve the gameplay a lot.

[Neptune]

Absolutely nothing wrong with revenge fleets. Lots of people will buy the game and after escaping enemy over and over and not being able to log off or actually escape the fleet they will think. Yeah this is 100% fine, much realistic so fun.... lol  

Quote

 I do not see an issue with revenge fleets.

My Steam Naval Action Review On Open World Combat.

• The hunters need to find their target, catch them in open world and then in battle. And then they need to actually win the fight.
• Now that the battle is over and upon leaving it is certain death for you and your mates. You looked for PvP, that is a terrible mistake and you should never under any circumstances do that. Unlike the enemy revenge fleet you earned it. Now you shall face your fate of dying to a revenge fleet because you could not run away even though you knew they were outside waiting. Sorry for you the enemy has to do no work to catch you, they get free kills without even having to chase you. They will make you pay for looking for PvP and by the end of it you will not want to PvP anymore. They will use teamspeak like they used back in the age of sail along with the compressed open world speed to get to your battle and ensure you a safe trip home.
• Not only that you will get to face the wrath of the force out to open world mechanic in your own waters as well, enemy will indeed tag you with a speed ship and surround you on the open world. Upon leaving you will meet your fate and it is well deserved, because you were sailing around your own capital.
• This is the type of combat you can expect upon purchasing Naval Action. Do not try to create PvP content on a PvP server, you will be punished by fleets that abuse open world speed buff.

 

 

Edited June 6, 2017 by Neptune

[Sir Texas Sir]

15 hours ago, Mrdoomed said:

A game with unlimited teleport for free is NOT hardcore 

They still have to have a ship there and they cna't just port the ship over.   If your hunting in hot water you better expect to be hunted down.  Maybe you need to pick new area if your worried about gank fleets and such?  Helll we put up wht the cutter swarm when the tag traders in front of KPR.  Now talk about being in the wrong place lol

[Mrdoomed]

2 hours ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

They still have to have a ship there and they cna't just port the ship over.   If your hunting in hot water you better expect to be hunted down.  Maybe you need to pick new area if your worried about gank fleets and such?  Helll we put up wht the cutter swarm when the tag traders in front of KPR.  Now talk about being in the wrong place lol

Over an hour from kpr is where I was and as soon as the first playerbi saw , saw me he ran to port and within minutes his entire clan had teleported to the closest port on each side of me.

Thats sorta my entire point texas, if players can teleport EVERY port is kpr or might as well be. You of all people know what the map will look like in a few months after the power creep and players and your alts are all over the map. I could attack a ship in new orleans and the 20 minutes im in battle every brit ANYWHERE on the map who has a outpost in new orleans can cross the globe to attack me. Thats bullshit and unreal and unfun and just stupid ass ez mode kid stuff that only thelazy gamers like.

With a power creep and teleports ALL water is "hot water" and your clan of all clans knows this .

[Sir Texas Sir]

So you just found that clans main area of operation. Hold back a bit and hit them as they get away.  I been getting traders all over the place around KPR but than they can't catch me in my Surprise or Rennom cause of how they are built.   Funny thing is I only been sunk around Mort area (well La Tort)

[Blackbrook]

18 hours ago, Liquicity said:

Make (a slightly tweaked) Signaling Perk a default game mechanic, but with a 2 minute join timer. So in the first 2 minutes, anything in sight can join, as it should be. 2 minutes is more or less the magic number of this game. Can't attack anything for 2 min after leaving port; tow to port is 2 min, etc..

I suppose 2 minutes is about the time it takes to sail from the horizon to you if you are not moving. You should not be able to join a battle directly from a port or another battle, but what about if you jump out before the battle starts? Your scout outside tells you that there is enemy ship approaching and then the group jumps out before tagging and start sailing towards the victim before the scout tags him.

[Sir Texas Sir]

6 minutes ago, Hodo said:

Last night I went sailing around southern Florida and northern Cuba, I managed to find 3 players in that time, one from your clan who managed to get away.  I wasnt mad he had the wind advantage so it happens.  But I continued to patrol around and found 2 others.  Managed to catch none of them, but not upset.  Sometimes you go hunting and catch nothing.  But I also lost nothing so no real worry.  So I attacked a NPC traders snow got 200 iron ore and 90 cotton.  So enough to keep me going in ship building another week if I need to.

Right now with all the traders we are running very speedy taggers for the most part.  I took an indefatigable from the US last night in that same area.  It's nice hunting so that is why we are there.  As to why we actually defended the port too.  As I mention in the other post some of these guys are so predictable you can be half a sleep and still get them.

Edited June 7, 2017 by Sir Texas Sir

[Liq]

10 minutes ago, Blackbrook said:

I suppose 2 minutes is about the time it takes to sail from the horizon to you if you are not moving. You should not be able to join a battle directly from a port or another battle, but what about if you jump out before the battle starts? Your scout outside tells you that there is enemy ship approaching and then the group jumps out before tagging and start sailing towards the victim before the scout tags him.

Then its your fault for sailing too close to Shore / enemy ports

Two minutes, as you said, is about the  time it takes to do 1 "horizon lenght"

However if you attack something not in sight of a port and have reinforcements join in 5 min after the tag was made - this is something different. No way to anticipate whats gonna pop out of port.

Thats currently what keeps me from playing this game. This and the ridiculous cutter spams. Oh yeah, when leaving a battle and being Welcomed by a revenge fleet sitting on top of your battle posotion because they take Advantage of OW speed boost isnt really helping either.

To me it feels like this patch did a good step forward regarding new features (structure, learnable upgrades etc) but at the same time twice the steps backwards regarding RoE.

We had this all before and it didnt work. Why would it work now.

Edited June 7, 2017 by Liquicity

[Mrdoomed]

1 hour ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

So you just found that clans main area of operation. Hold back a bit and hit them as they get away.  I been getting traders all over the place around KPR but than they can't catch me in my Surprise or Rennom cause of how they are built.   Funny thing is I only been sunk around Mort area (well La Tort)

I think youre still missing the point. Sure now when the wipe is fresh we can find little spots to be hunters or do our own thing BUT in 4 or 5 months once the server has reestablished itself,  just like before, there will be no place on earth that wont be " someones" backdoor because there will be outpost everywhere. 

Honestly you and i both saw the end result of this pre wipe. A server with 20 guys on it camping each others capitals and thats exactly where it will go again.  Honestly WHY would anyone hunt anywhere but an enemy capital? There is no reason not to because youre gonna have to fight them all no matter where you go so why bother sailing further away and take a chance of there not being a ship when you know the capital will have them. There is not one single reason to do anything but capital camp, it happened last time and its ALREADY happening this time.

Those in favor of teleport with no limits are thier own worst enemy.  Besides im not even saying do away with the babies bottles, let them have it BUT GIVE THOSE OF US OTHER PLAYERS A MEANS OF ESCAPE WITHOUT A LOSS EVERY BATTLE.  If you cant log off after battle now that is a 100% loss rate for you on this servrr after power creep sets in.

That is ok for you and your mega clan but some players try to play different. 

I want one answer. ..why cant we have a teleport to friendly port or outpost option after battle IF the enemy can teleport to us while we are in stasis??? I wamt to know why? I think its because the devs like ganking people and made a game for ganking.

[Liq]

I think its got to do with the mindset of the average NA player - "i dont give a shit it takes 10 of us to kill him, as long as we kill him"

Average player wants instant success and feels good about winning a battle he had double or more the numbers and therefore knew he would win anyway.

Personally I dont see where the challenge in this is. Without a challenge id get burned out / bored so fast and just quit.

Damned casuals

Edited June 11, 2017 by Liquicity