PIerrick de Badas Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 We ask several time what was happening with the treaty and i ask it officially to praefect because french was asking what about it. It was when french were holding pampa and stuff and didn't want to give it back to dutchs. Then praefect said: the alliance is broken as you don't care on us. French did'nt break the alliance, praefect for the dutch does. Ty to update the topic. About all the blabla, it's well written but too many world to be easly understand by everyone. If i can resume: Sweden and dutch are officially in alliance? Dutch and uk are officiale in alliance (against pirate) ? dutch want to complain about beeing consider as troll? (not sure). French are impatient to see the Pellasgos complain. Dutch are officiale saying we break the alliance with them when they did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lytse Pier Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 George III (George William Frederick; 4 June 1738 – 29 January 1820) You are a george too late Yeah, we know, but we loved the titles he had ... especially "King of France". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lytse Pier Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 We ask several time what was happening with the treaty and i ask it officially to praefect because french was asking what about it. It was when french were holding pampa and stuff and didn't want to give it back to dutchs. Then praefect said: the alliance is broken as you don't care on us. French did'nt break the alliance, praefect for the dutch does. Ty to update the topic. About all the blabla, it's well written but too many world to be easly understand by everyone. If i can resume: Sweden and dutch are officially in alliance? Dutch and uk are officiale in alliance (against pirate) ? dutch want to complain about beeing consider as troll? (not sure). French are impatient to see the Pellasgos complain. Dutch are officiale saying we break the alliance with them when they did. Dag Kierrip, The French dissolvement of the alliance has been ratified by the Staaten Generaal, as I read it, and apparently it wasn't a big deal, as it was decided without the presence of the Prince of Orange. To be clear, you have broken nothing in our/my eyes, it was just dissolved, that's it, no more. I think we can all agree it is a much better reflection of the actual situation. And about the complicated texts, some texts are worth reading twice if you want to catch the full impact. If not, just once will suffice, and discussion can commence about what words mean, instead of what the meaning of the words are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lytse Pier Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 Simply and good is twice good. Overpompous texts make it harder to understand... Much more if you are not native speaker ... I could put you and example in spanish that cant be understand if you are not such native speaker to probe my point... To begin with a thread title like "Dutch declear war to X" or/and "his alliance to Y " would be much more clear, dont you thinks so? Yes, but doing it like above is way nicer! You can read the bold emphasized words in the original text to get a clear idea without a lot of other fluffy words. But to add: 1. Staaten Generaal ratifies a full alliance with the Swedes after King Gustav declared a law of: "like the Dutch or get flogged". 2. Staaten Generaal confirmes an anti-pirate alliance with the Brits and a mutual willingness in defensive actions to keep the colonies safe. 3. Dutch West Indies Consortium hands a Letter of Complaint and Abhorrence to the French Council. 4. An old alliance was cancelled by the French in word and action; Staaten Generaal ratified and confirms the dismissal of the old alliance, which corrects the current state of affairs nicely between our communities. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fletch Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 Its nice to see all this player made diplomacy and drama, makes me wonder why people want the devs to implement it for them rather than leaving it entirely to the player. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
praefect Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 (edited) 1. This was just a statement of fact. It is not blackmail. We stated clearly that we would not take flags against any ports beyond those three ports that were taken from us with the help of Dutch screening forces while we were still supposed to be allies. 2. That's simply not true. Denmark-Norway stated that we would not interfere with the Dutch north of Tiburon. to 1.: These ports were pirate ports. Pirates crafted flags from there against us for more than 2 weeks. Before they were british ports. Dutch forces did not screen there, we took all 3 pirates ports by ourselves from the pirates. No other nation helped us here so I absolutely don´t get ur point. to 2.: No Analytic, that was a statement Zlobny gave us just the same day we crafted flags for haiti region. You guys tried to help ur pirates friends with that. Maybe in that specific point u were not informed, I simply don´t know, but we had 2 dutch diplo´s who heard the same words from him. But I agree that we had an agreement to guarantee danish a free route to brits and danes promised in return to not interfere in our fun against the pirates. But that was after weeks of dutch fun in haiti and not too long before the road town incident. Yet it was after this that that the alliance still being in effect was confirmed. Under specific conditions, which were not fulfilled. Especially our SOLs for PBS got continuously attacked by danish players. The only reason why there was still an alliance was our good will and warm danish words of future improved relationships. But in fact danish continuously attacked us and demanded our help against our defensive ally with rly harsh war goals without acceptance of any possibility to have proper peace talks with them. From our point of view this war was rly unnecessary and could have been solved via some proper talks with the swedes. In the end its a game and players wanna have fun. U cannot rly believe that an alliance which relies on sympathies and RPG will continued if another nation f**** over their ally partner. It won´t work right now and it won´t work with democracy based game mechanics. But I can understand that it was a very messed up situation on hispaniola which caused a lot of issues. And also neither u nor zlobny can speak for all danish players, like our council can´t speak for every single captain, so we simply accept what happened in the past and have our thoughts about that. But it´s strange for us to read this "we always stick to our treaties and u don´t" - stuff, cos that was not our experience with the danes and we don´t see why/where we would have betrayed them. Anyway, this could continue for pages, but it´s just blaming & shaming without a chance to convince the other one. If dutch and danes should have proper talks about what happened in the past we can meet on ts anolytic. Till that, enjoy ur holydays mate (would like to have some too). Edited June 27, 2016 by praefect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twig Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 1. This was just a statement of fact. It is not blackmail. We stated clearly that we would not take flags against any ports beyond those three ports that were taken from us with the help of Dutch screening forces while we were still supposed to be allies. 2. That's simply not true. Denmark-Norway stated that we would not interfere with the Dutch north of Tiburon. 3&4 The PvP-zone was not specific to Dutch. The declaration was however, which was unfortunate and not approved by a diplomat. Yet it was after this that that the alliance still being in effect was confirmed. Exactly, at your insistence we spent days talking about something that could have been easily sorted, blocking our players from actually playing in the meantime. 1) Statement? Well ok here we go: "Our demand is thus that the Dutch and the Swedes immediately and jointly evacuate and hand back to us our rightful possessions of Saint-Louis, Les Cayes and Tiburon." https://www.evernote.com/shard/s1/sh/a7ff84eb-09f8-4295-bc85-99a3f1bee0a5/2f618b98b5b12c36 Please, shut up, cause everything you say is just straight a lie. Actualy rereading this again, now that the Brits are not the largest nation anymore, will you fight the new largest nation as you proclaimed? So the Pirates/Spain or can't we take you by your own word? (Pirates/Spain are both larger by ports and players) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CeltiberoCaesar Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 (edited) 1) Statement? Well ok here we go: "Our demand is thus that the Dutch and the Swedes immediately and jointly evacuate and hand back to us our rightful possessions of Saint-Louis, Les Cayes and Tiburon." https://www.evernote.com/shard/s1/sh/a7ff84eb-09f8-4295-bc85-99a3f1bee0a5/2f618b98b5b12c36 Please, shut up, cause everything you say is just straight a lie. Actualy rereading this again, now that the Brits are not the largest nation anymore, will you fight the new largest nation as you proclaimed? So the Pirates/Spain or can't we take you by your own word? (Pirates/Spain are both larger by ports and players) Sorry but no, spain and pirates are not the largest in players... All our fights against the british have been won with less people and worst ships. Its true now spain has more ports than others... But thats because we knew to defend key ports that allow us to retain the others, no dur to an infinty amount of players... The british is still the most crowded nation Edited June 27, 2016 by CeltiberoCaesar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
praefect Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 (edited) We ask several time what was happening with the treaty and i ask it officially to praefect because french was asking what about it. It was when french were holding pampa and stuff and didn't want to give it back to dutchs. Then praefect said: the alliance is broken as you don't care on us. French did'nt break the alliance, praefect for the dutch does. The day I can finally hear some true words from you I´ll gift you some tulips and gouda, I promise to you. Right after war started I came on ur TS and asked u if u would agree on, that this is a war between danes (coalition) and swedes (coalition) so that technically we are still allied. Ur response was: "no, u attacked us, u could have stood neutral, but u crafted flags. By doing that, dutch broke the alliance". U repeated that till the end of war every single time u needed that for ur favor. Once u demanded something from the dutch, you asked if we wouldn´t still be allies to misuse that treaty. Thats just one single reason how the french denied an alliance is existent. Rly disgusting propaganda from ur side again to blame ur opponent. Edited June 27, 2016 by praefect 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llewellyn Jones RN Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 See I knew my plan would work 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hethwill Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 Its nice to see all this player made diplomacy and drama, makes me wonder why people want the devs to implement it for them rather than leaving it entirely to the player. Yes but some folks have a non-dettachment syndrome to the whole RP joy vs IRL must win, aka. beardies, so a sort of mechanics are warranted. At least with the Lords voting there will be even more drama for sure 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twig Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 At least with the Lords voting there will be even more drama for sure Sadly, we have to wait a long time until that is possible I WANT THAT NOW! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lytse Pier Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 Its nice to see all this player made diplomacy and drama, makes me wonder why people want the devs to implement it for them rather than leaving it entirely to the player. Indeed, and this is exactly why this input is given to the community by the community. How much there is disagreement (as you can see in several posts in this thread), it will be worth a deep thought how much we want to leave these things to game-mechanics instead of to our own input. It does not warrant a complete player controlled environment however, as there are people who take things rather different than for example in the spirit of "playing together in the sandbox". I for one enjoy how it gets people involved in whatever role they choose, but am looking also forward to see the developers view on it by adding a few game mechanics. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PIerrick de Badas Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 Praefect... How sad it is to see you fallen so low. Anyway we will past upper that as usual because we stop to feel inconfortable about your own propagand. The french propagand has always Been made to gIve back pride to the French captain to make us act as a naction and was center on us. Your propagand was always to blame us about anything. You forget to think about your nation and your nation forget to think about you. About the point 3, French and Dutch relations are really low. One more time I asked you to not breath on the fire. Let the time past. Let people forget and then, people will be ready to forgive. Atm, too many bullets and bad worlds have been exchange. You wanted a new diplomat, you have had one. You wanted ports, you get ports. Your allies wanted port, they have ports... Let us be quiet now. Let us close our eyes without a disgusting taste in our mouth about all you write on us. We have not forgetting the racist threads you made on us praefect neither I forget the many bad answer you made on me. You tell me the praefect troll is not the same as the diplomat and that we should separate your worlds on ts and forum. It has gone too far. I want to play and have fun not to be insult by trolls who don't know who I am. It's why I retreat for diplomacy with the Dutch council to let someone else build something new. It was clear I couldn't anymore lead discussion with you in the name of the nation neither with others due of your propagand. Imagine now what is the propagand about you in our nation and what feeling French have with the Dutch. Do you really need to write it to decrease more our relation if it s possible? If you are concerned about the bad diplomacy between our nation, two things will solve that and just this two things : - time - someone new to represent your council Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenakha Kan Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 (edited) Y'all need to cool down guys! edit : Nice RP post OP! Don't forget that Georges III is also the one who abandonned the title of King of France ;-) Edited June 27, 2016 by Tenakha Kan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
praefect Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 (edited) Kerrib, if u retired from diplomacy then simply keep away from diplo business. About new diplos, we appointed 3 new ones and got 8 in total now. Its up to the french to decide to which one they like to talk with and it´s our decision if we like to talk with french diplos at all. So do us a favor and stick to ur own words: "Let us be quiet now." While u do that, diplomacy is going on. If u need information, u want to complain, or anything else, pass this info´s through ur diplomats pls or simply report my "racist & troll" posts. ------------------------- edit : Nice RP post OP! Don't forget that Georges III is also the one who abandonned the title of King of France ;-) Thank you for this, it took us all a few hours indeed. I´ll pass it through. And yes, true, hope u guys forgive us that we read over this. Edited June 27, 2016 by praefect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twig Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 (edited) Praefect... How sad it is to see you fallen so low. Anyway we will past upper that as usual because we stop to feel inconfortable about your own propagand. The french propagand has always Been made to gIve back pride to the French captain to make us act as a naction and was center on us. Your propagand was always to blame us about anything. You forget to think about your nation and your nation forget to think about you. About the point 3, French and Dutch relations are really low. One more time I asked you to not breath on the fire. Let the time past. Let people forget and then, people will be ready to forgive. Atm, too many bullets and bad worlds have been exchange. You wanted a new diplomat, you have had one. You wanted ports, you get ports. Your allies wanted port, they have ports... Let us be quiet now. Let us close our eyes without a disgusting taste in our mouth about all you write on us. We have not forgetting the racist threads you made on us praefect neither I forget the many bad answer you made on me. You tell me the praefect troll is not the same as the diplomat and that we should separate your worlds on ts and forum. It has gone too far. I want to play and have fun not to be insult by trolls who don't know who I am. It's why I retreat for diplomacy with the Dutch council to let someone else build something new. It was clear I couldn't anymore lead discussion with you in the name of the nation neither with others due of your propagand. Imagine now what is the propagand about you in our nation and what feeling French have with the Dutch. Do you really need to write it to decrease more our relation if it s possible? If you are concerned about the bad diplomacy between our nation, two things will solve that and just this two things : - time - someone new to represent your council And that by Kierrib the only diplomate I can never ever trust cause of the extremely amount of lies hed spread in the past. I think, now that the french got a better diplomate, it only can get better. Btw: The french propaganda had been: trying to give back the french some "pride" (which the lost) by blaming and falsly accuse other nations. Fun fact: It never worked! The dutch propaganda had always been to try to get us to a peace with you until you totaly went insane. You forced them to be not as friendly as you used to know. But that is not their fault, only yours with your fail diplomancy. One of the reasons why I denied to talk to you. I still dont understand why Sveno jumped over his shadow there and I really feel respect for him for overcoming himself. Praefect was the one who tried to get us together, he did a lot of talkings to any side. I can understand why he is anoyed by you Kierrib. Edited June 27, 2016 by Twig 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pietjenoob Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 (edited) Well, Kierib i don't have a clue what you are talking about, but Praefect is like me half of the time a messenger, he is not doing any kind of propaganda as you like to call it unfortunately i read the official French forum and i see you are doing a lot of propaganda to keep Praefect away from the French Nation TS and that you are also trying to blame and blackmail him is not done for me. so stop with your pathetic play and stop with trying to blame us everything we are trying to be reasonable here but you enough is enough and here you crossed the line for me. other question why were you on the Dutch nation Ts whilst you are not longer a French Diplo for the dutch any more. and you are also insulting an entire nation currently. and a lot of people within the dutch nation are not happy with you. Edited June 27, 2016 by pietjenoob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lytse Pier Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 Don't forget that Georges III is also the one who abandonned the title of King of France ;-) He did indeed, Tenakha! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lytse Pier Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 He did indeed, Tenakha! And to add to that. The title Prince of Orange is actually from the area of the city of Orange in the current French Vaucluse district. This original Prince of Orange on his turn had offspring (William III of Orange) that rose to the British throne, which on its turn could wear the title of King of France (which his arch enemy Louis XIV surely disagreed with). Rather incestuous European relations we share in history, that is for sure. It was all about the money, I think we can all agree on that. Funny that the French overthrew their King to form a republic and the Dutch overthrew their Republic to form a Kingdom later on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pietjenoob Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 Why if i may ask? We gave the French a huge area when they were small...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
praefect Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 Still asking myself, who that Amonacc guy is. Is he a new diplo assistant? He´s active in a lot diplo threads and still no clue from what clan, ya even from which nation he is... Also he seems to miss constantly what other forum user are talkin about. Actually he´s messing up the treaty of the Antilles and the former dutch-french alliance treaty... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lytse Pier Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 Let's see if it works again, like I did with the other thread: ... and they lived happily ever after. The end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guillaume de Longueheuse Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 Not very clear. But seems to be a lot of noise for few. Well, "few", is probably the word for a new verbal battle. Dutch and France are not ally anymore, because Dutch want to fought the Black Menace and defend the Great Britain? Ok then, seems fair to me, no need to be so agressive guys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lytse Pier Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 Not very clear. But seems to be a lot of noise for few. Well, "few", is probably the word for a new verbal battle. Dutch and France are not ally anymore, because Dutch want to fought the Black Menace and defend the Great Britain? Ok then, seems fair to me, no need to be so agressive guys! The thing is Guillaume, that we've been fighting since January this year for the same ports over and over. The French went as far as Caracas and the Dutch as far as Castries. I guess we all have reasons to boast. Although a lot of people had fun, doing the same thing every evening is not beneficial for a lot of moods. Repetition creates forms of agitation and even some misplaced animosity here and there. I really think it is better this way, and I'm sure that when new patches arrive things will be more dynamic again. For now, let's have some fights on the other side of the map and I hope to see you there, perhaps even guiding me through the treacherous shallows not around St. Jospeh, but this time around Tiburon. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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