I got ganked

[Bach]

Years ago playing Ultima Online I got ganked. I lost all me weapons, armor, gear and consumables. This set me back nearly a month of exploring dungeons to collect that stuff. That hurt a lot.

Years ago in EVE I got ganked going through a gate. I lost my battleship and my clone. This cost me a weeks game time and training xp. This hurt a lot.

Years ago in early WOW I got ganked. They spawn camped me and I gained a fair amount of death penalty debt xp. That cost me a few days adventuring do to recover from. It hurt.

Last year in POTBS I got ganked. I lost a dura on my ship and all my expensive exceptional mods. It sort of hurt.

Last month I got ganked in Naval Action, I lost a dura on my ship, I was moved instantly to a friendly port fully armed and ready to go, I didn't lose a single mod and I was awarded gold and xp. Not so bad.

Getting ganked in Naval Action is almost nothing more than an emotional set back for all non-rate ships. So unless you have the emotions of a school girl, the devs have done a pretty good job of gank proofing this game already.

All the anti-gank fuss is probably really about just shrinking battles down to 1v1s in the open world. I doubt there is actually all that many gank complainers out there on a pvp server.

Edited April 27, 2016 by Bach

[Ned Loe]

Years ago playing Ultima Online I got ganked. I lost all me weapons, armor, gear and consumables. This set me back nearly a month of exploring dungeons to collect that stuff. That hurt a lot.

Years ago in EVE I got ganked going through a gate. I lost my battleship and my clone. This cost me a weeks game time and training xp. This hurt a lot.

Years ago in early WOW I got ganked. They spawn camped me and I gained a fair amount of death penalty debt xp. That cost me a few days adventuring do to recover from. It hurt.

Last year in POTBS I got ganked. I lost a dura on my ship and all my expensive exceptional mods. It sort of hurt.

Last month I got ganked in Naval Action, I lost a dura on my ship, I was moved instantly to a friendly port fully armed and ready to go, I didn't lose a single mod and I was awarded gold and xp. Not so bad.

Getting ganked in Naval Action us almost nothing more than an emotional set back for all non-rate ships. So unless you have the emotions of a school girl, the devs have done a pretty good job of gank proofing this game already.

All the anti-gank fuss is probably really about just shrinking battles down to 1v1s in the open world. I doubt there is actually all that many gank complainers out there on a pvp server.

Give drinks to this guy^

[Dragonfire]

You obviously haven't played this game very long lol.

 

Reroll Swedish and see if you still think that after 3 days lol.

Edited April 27, 2016 by Dragonfire

[maturin]

What is the point of this thread?

[Ned Loe]

You obviously haven't played this game very long lol.

Reroll Swedish and see if you still think that after 3 days lol.

He is right. It will not hurt because most ships have 5-3 duras and if you are ganked once it's only -1 dura and all your mods stay. So, I think girls on ships is a very bad omen.

In the end, every gank makes you more aware of what is happening around you, you simply start to adapt. You start testing gankers patience, you develop escape plan in case enemy sail spotted on the horizon. Eventually, it becomes a second nature. For example, sailing trader ship next to the coast or land is a bad idea, but when you are sailing a good distance from the land on planned route you will never get ganked. Gankers are lazy, they stay close to ports and land. Only small % goes deep into the ocean to hunt. Developers gave you this huge ocean space, so use it. On the other hand, it is very dangerous when sailing close to ports and in this case make sure you follow NPCs that you can tag in case of a surprise attack.

Tips - zoom in all the way in your ship when sailing, it will put you closer to the horizon and spotting ships will be very easy.

- always use fir made trader ships, add as much speed mods as possible, dump all guns they take away speed. Prepare your ship for boarding defense/offence only!

I might add this to a new Trader survival Guide.

http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/13636-traders-survival-guide/?p=250105

[Dharus]

What is the point of this thread?

It's about keeping things in perspective.

Many many years ago, i got ganked in a MUDD and lost everything. I had to actually read!

[Bach]

What is the point of this thread?

I am glad you asked. It's to point out that we don't have a gank problem as much as just differing points of view on pvp. There are as many different pvp styles as ships in this game. The trick is to offer a world that allows for most of them. I myself identify most as a bounty hunter. In UO I hunted murderer players. That game would allow you to collect their heads and turn them in for rewards offered by other players or NPCs. For me there is no greater thrill than hunting the most dangerous prey.

So what happens to pvp players that are bounty hunters, defenders of others or otherwise have their particular version of pvp centered around stopping the "bad guys" if there are no more bad guys? We die off and leave games as there is no longer anything for us. If every battle becomes "fair" then there are no more bad guys. There is no one to defend and no rescues needed. Most all of the defensive pvp styles go away along with the gankers and bad guys. It's a pvp relationship of sorts. Defenders need something to defend.

So when you read through all the 1.5 BR threads the idea that they are about ganking clouds the issue. Since they started everyone seems to assume I'm a ganker because I am against the 1.5 BR rule. This isn't true. What I am against is shrinking pvp to where defender style players no longer have a place in the game. If you remove all the bad guys you will end up removing us too.

[Magnificence]

Many many years ago, i got ganked in a MUDD and lost everything. I had to actually read!

Le' Gasp!!! READING!

[Bach]

You obviously haven't played this game very long lol.

 

Reroll Swedish and see if you still think that after 3 days lol.

Played for months. Fought the pvp2 Pirate v French war when the French were forced down to just two ports. Most fights were 1v3 against us and we had a great time fighting them. What server are you on?

[maturin]

 

 

I am glad you asked. It's to point out that we don't have a gank problem as much as just differing points of view on pvp. 

Unfortunately for your viewpoint, the devs have their own opinions on ganking.

 

Namely, that lopsided battles aren't fun for anyone, and game design should promote battles that are winnable for either side.

 

 

 

And I still can't fathom what this thread is supposed to accomplish, besides beating a dead horse while insulting the people who don't agree with you. How does it contribute to the development of the game?

[Manta Scorpion]

hehe, you think anybody of the pvp players against this ganking has problems with loosing? It's just about getting funny fights.

 

- It is not funny to get ganked all the time without getting any good fight.

- It is a waste of time getting ganked all the time

 

Ganking is not the problem with it happens sometimes. But without restrictions you just have huge pvp fights or ganks. But I think you will never get this. Oh and the most annyoing thing is, the players thinking they are the most hardcore pvp players because they can just deal with the restriction but in reallity they are the hardest exploiters and gankers around. (Not calling you one, I ve no Idea how you play.)

[B24LIBERATOR]

 lopsided battles aren't fun for anyone, and game design should promote battles that are winnable for either side.

 

Forcing even battles is boring and limiting. Just my 2 cents.

 

The devs can do what they want, but that BR limit really sucks the fun out of it (I prefer to be on the lower side not the ganking side, a good challenges is fun). I say if someone doesn't want to get ganked, sail in a fleet or don't get caught.

 

 

How does it contribute to the development of the game?

Don't read a thread you don't like, this comment doesn't contribute to the conversation

[maturin]

 

Forcing even battles is boring and limiting. Just my 2 cents.

 

"promoting winnable battles" =/= "forcing even battles"

[Bach]

Liberator gets it. 1v1 fights are not fun for all because the limited variables of such fights create more pre-determined out comes.

Consider this, most pvp battles are decided on the open sea before the instance is even created. For the most part player open sea skills determine if they are likely to win or lose more so than instance battle skills. Once the instance is created most of the battle possibilities become locked. Open sea strategies counts as much if not more.

Monday we went out patrolling. The battle front we expected to find pvp on was a 40min sail away p. We didn't know what we would find and wouldn't be able to change ships when we got there. So we used a mix. Reno, Connie and 3rd. All combat rigged and no fail fits. So we set the ships sailing and some went to dinner and I cleaned the pool. Yes we sailed AFK. This game is filled with nothing zones and it's not all that risky. We get to station and sail spread out to have the best chance to find pvp. Two enemy Connies find us and tag our Reno and Connie. This battle satisfies the 1.5 BR rules. Soon as the battle starts a quick spy glass survey shows enemy Connie #1 is Coronades and #2 is long guns. This fight just became pre-determined. The sequence is to keep range from Connie 1 and pound hull on Connie 2. 40 minutes later of button mashing both Connies sink as they were always going too. This isn't a fun battle to me and it as no great challenge of our skills.

However, we get out of that battle and up the coast run into the same two Connies since getting sunk just put them in the next port ready to go. This time they got a friendly to them NPC fleet in the battle and we got our third rate. It was 3v11 with nine being NPCs. Now NPCs are not as tough as players but this fight actually required me to work for the win. The variables were not as predictable and a wrong move was definetly going to get me sunk. THIS fight was worth the $40 price of admission.

Edited April 27, 2016 by Bach

[Dharus]

The battle of kasserine pass was a gank. The battle of midway was a gank and reverse gank. The battle of the bulge was a gank but then reinforcements came. The battle of the Philippine Sea was a gank.

War isn't always fair. If you want a wargame, then it should be similar. WW2 online mirrored this (and is still around).

[Bommel]

You can not force even battles in an open world game, and it makes it even harder if the position of the capitals and the conquerable ports is not balanced.

Restrictions will lead to more frustrations. You simply can not know the strength of the enemy fleet you will eventually run into, so if you start a fleet and look for fights you will most likely never get even fights, and I´m totally fine with that. 

On the other hand I´m not fine with starting a fleet, sailing around 1-2 hours to find an enemy fleet and then not be able to participate in battle, or simply having to let them flee/sail away only because you won´t be able to catch them with the whole fleet sticking together.

I´d rather have uneven fights than sailing 1-2 hours and getting no fight at all

If you desperately need even fights then use the duel or small/large battle, or use chat to arrange even fights with a fleet of a different nation.

Same BR doesn´t mean the fight will be balanced (not even counting in the individual player skills here).

 

 

And iirc admin stated they want to force it by design.

[LeBoiteux]

(...) game design should promote battles that are winnable for either side.

"promoting winnable battles" =/= "forcing even battles"

 

This is rule # 1 of any game or sport.

[Dharus]

This is rule # 1 of any game or sport.

But what is "a win".

If I'm ganked and i waste 1.5 hrs of their time but sink, i consider that a win. If i sink someone while being ganked, i win. In fact the only way you lose is not to play. That's my opinion which means little i know. I dont care what the final scoreboard says. However, that is kind of the mindset you need in a sandbox wargame. If 10 players are trying to kill you, that means 10 players wasting their time on the overall war effort. In reverse, those 10 people are teaching you that OW is dangerous and you need friends, other teammates, or better ship choice sailing these waters. Grand national wars should not be watered down to "fair" engagements. Sure, you can hope for a Trafalgar, Battle of the Nile, or Copenhagen (you could even argue those were not all fair) but they did not define the overall war. They'd be PBs in Naval action and not current OW engagements (Trafalgar being an oddity here) in terms of importance. Ships are easily created and destroyed here verses real life. Trafalgar was an attrition battle something that Naval Action mechanics does not support.

Anyways, if PBs are more focused events as Admins are alluding to in their upcoming changes. Those will be the "fair" actions and then lets leave OW to the guerrilla fighters, privateers, and securitt patrols.

[maturin]

 

 

However, that is kind of the mindset you need in a sandbox wargame. 

Congratulations on your mindset.

 

However, 90% of players are busy either being immediately sunk by gankers (sinking a frigate in a 1v8 is a superhuman feat) or running away from them.

 

The latter, in particular, earn nothing, while being forced to spend hours running, running away instead of playing the game. 

[Magnum]

The real loss is being unwilling to provide meaningful content for other players. Only when you are willing to sail around (read participate) and "potentially" provide content are you making the game better.

 

If you hide in port = less "game". If you never go into danger zones = less "game". If you only hang out in 8, 10, 12 ship "gangs" jumping single ships = less "game".

 

----

 

This is why the "gank squads" hurt the game - they never take a real chance to provide meaningful content to other players - instead by ganging up they try to ensure that any content they provide is just them sinking/capturing what they consider "lesser" players.

 

I know many "gank squads" will squeal like little pigs when they are caught with their hand in the cookie jar by a strong RN force - they will squeal and cry as you force them to provide content

 

----

 

This happenstance is also why we need a useful "surrender" mechanic.

[Dharus]

Congratulations on your mindset.

However, 90% of players are busy either being immediately sunk by gankers (sinking a frigate in a 1v8 is a superhuman feat) or running away from them.

The latter, in particular, earn nothing, while being forced to spend hours running, running away instead of playing the game.

90%? Where does that number come from?

If a game (generally speaking) has crappy players, does the game need to be dumbed down or player's learn? This is the chicken and egg argument. Most devs give in and dumb games down. That's why we have a huge graveyard of MMOs that were played for a few months.

[Bach]

Congratulations on your mindset.

However, 90% of players are busy either being immediately sunk by gankers (sinking a frigate in a 1v8 is a superhuman feat) or running away from them.

The latter, in particular, earn nothing, while being forced to spend hours running, running away instead of playing the game.

Now I hope your are starting to see why I wrote this post. We all have different mindsets. Take your 1v8 example. You see it as a bad thing. Dharus sees it as a chance to sucker 8 ships away from the war for an hour. Presumably while his team mates accomplish some other goal. I see it as a challenge to put together a counter group to hunt down and destroy this group of 8 enemies. We all have different views of the pvp offered by the same situation. If we need ROE rules we need ones that allow us all to pvp as we like. Not all forced into one view of pvp for that sake of anti-ganking. Especially when getting ganked in NA is relatively harmless. Edited April 27, 2016 by Bach

[thp]

The real loss is being unwilling to provide meaningful content for other players. Only when you are willing to sail around (read participate) and "potentially" provide content are you making the game better.

 

If you hide in port = less "game". If you never go into danger zones = less "game". If you only hang out in 8, 10, 12 ship "gangs" jumping single ships = less "game".

 

----

 

This is why the "gank squads" hurt the game - they never take a real chance to provide meaningful content to other players - instead by ganging up they try to ensure that any content they provide is just them sinking/capturing what they consider "lesser" players.

 

I know many "gank squads" will squeal like little pigs when they are caught with their hand in the cookie jar by a strong RN force - they will squeal and cry as you force them to provide content

 

----

 

This happenstance is also why we need a useful "surrender" mechanic.

This reminds me funny story before, SLRN came near Islet, when pirates were still very low level, unorganized and no match for the RN , all newbie pirates were scared and hiding in Port, then one of the British player with a pirate name ( it s King of Pirate or something like that if i remenber well ) just call in global chat that he had been ganked by british and need pirates to come out to help, but we are not stupid we just check his info and see that he s actually british that try to get  pirate come out to be ganked.

From my personal experience in this game, I had been ganked almost like everyday before when I was doing mission order alone to level up. That only makes me play better and less imprudent when I sail alone, the lost of in game materiels is nothing compared to the lesson we learn from that experience. Been ganked mainly hurt our own ego, more we got a big ego, more it will hurt us, because we wont learn any lesson from it but only keep complaining insteed of trying to see what was our mistake and correc t it. In my opinion and from experience of the pvp game I played before,  I have never seen a game can really avoid ganking by game mechanics unless it turn the game into PVE cooperative farming .

 

P.S : to the mod that just remove my post, please tell me why ? there no personal attack and nothing offensive in my post. It s just my opinion about ganking. Please dont use abusively your power just because you dont like what I write .

 

 

Edit:

Removed forum PVP - Moderator Team

[maturin]

Now I hope your are starting to see why I wrote this post. We all have different mindsets. Take your 1v8 example. You see it as a bad thing. Dharus sees it as a chance to sucker 8 ships away from the war for an hour. Presumably while his team mates accomplish some other goal. I see it as a challenge to put together a counter group to hunt down and destroy this group of 8 enemies. We all have different views of the pvp offered by the same situation. If we need ROE rules we need ones that allow us all to pvp as we like. Not all forced into one view of pvp for that sake of anti-ganking. Especially when getting ganked in NA is relatively harmless.

Taking 8 players away from the war doesn't actually affect anything meaningful in most cases. It just means that I don't get to play the  game for an hour. And then I have to escape from the next three gank squads.

 

 

 

If a game (generally speaking) has crappy players, does the game need to be dumbed down or player's learn? This is the chicken and egg argument. Most devs give in and dumb games down. That's why we have a huge graveyard of MMOs that were played for a few months. 

You're saying that people who escape from ganks are bad players?

[Teutonic]

There are already things in the game to promote "equal" battles (small battles) or duels, if players want an even battle they should join those whenever they can!

 

But to then try and apply a BR limit, or an anti-gank mechanic in the Open World is not the right move.

 

I've been ganked multiple times in many MMOs, what it taught me was not to complain about being attacked by overwhelming forces, but to play smarter. Whether it was bringing a bunch of friends to beat the "gankers" or playing smart and avoiding them effectively. I was able to learn from my mistakes every time I died or lost something in a game.

 

I've played Eve Online for years. I won't disagree that Eve Online is an entirely different beast compared to other MMOs, but when a player complains about getting ganked, I'm always surprised how it doesn't seem like they want to improve.
Rather they want to try and limit others for not playing "their" way. This is a generalization and I know that there are players trying to improve, but I am against many of the mechanics suggested to "limit" groups from PvPing with each other that have been provided on the forums. OW should not be limited to "even" fights, if this game wants to try and simulate history of sailing, and general war/fighting for that matter, then we should all know by now that a fair fight was extremely unlikely.

 

Most of the "ganking" I see in Naval Action is really due to the issue of a low population. A group of 6-12 players sails around trying to find PvP, it's hard to find another group of similar size around the map, so you sail and sail and sail. After 1/2 hours players get bored, you start looking for ANYTHING to shoot. If it's one lonely player in a trader, tough. The trader should call for his friends to fight the group that attacked him.

Edited April 27, 2016 by Teutonic