Capturing AI vessels

[Quarios]

I only play since the EA launch, so this might have been brought up before. I personally don’t like the capture mechanics and their impact on the economy / PVP they have right now. For me PvP was always more meaningful, when you really had to risk something. (Like flying real expensive ships in eve i.e.)

In NA so far, I don’t even care if I loose my 3rd rate, it will just take me like 30min to cap a new one. In my opinion it would be better to only be able to capture ships in PvP not against AI. This would also boost the Player economy, since you actually would have to craft/buy ships instead of just using captured ships all the times.Captured AI ships should only be able to be sent to the Admiralty for some prize money.

While you might keep the AI capture in for lower class ships to pacify the casuals, I strongly would recommend at least preventing this for 4th rate and higher ships. This ships should be somewhat special and not spammable.

If this would change you should also change the Blueprint system, since you can’t just cap and break down dozens of higher class ships anymore to get them precious BP, but this is another topic.

So what do you guys think about this issue?

Poll removed by mod team for being non-essential to the discussion.

[Hethwill]

AI is passive and not challenging at the moment. That's what I think about it.

 

So it is easy to replace the losses.

[Quineloe]

Do you honestly think we'll ever get AI that is not a pushover if you bring sufficient numbers?

[Galileus]

I like bananas. What I like more than bananas is the idea of ships that you can build and that have some personality to them - as opposed to cookie cutter capped crap populating every single outpost of yours en masse.

[Wicked Mouse]

I'd say don't restrict the capture mechanic itself, but the spawn of AI. Maybe lower it to max 4th rates? Currently the AI spawn is already limited, but the amount of ships that does not spawn with AI is relatively small at the moment and will get bigger over time. Trincomalee and Bellona will never spawn in missions or roaming fleets for instance and can only be obtained from crafters. I can understand that the majority does spawn in missions and is sold regularly by NPCs, or a blueprint can be automatically obtained by just levelling up the crafting, in order to give players a basis to work with instead of making it VERY hard to acquire any new ships and stagnate progression too fiercely. Maybe later this can be changed when there's a solid crafting and economy system.

 

Even now where new players join and work up their ranks are asking in the nation chat either where they can buy particular ships (like snows or surprises) or if someone is able to craft them. Often they're not too easy to find, without sailing for hours to most of the friendly ports to see if any basic one is for sale there, or crafters have moved on already and want to spend their crafting hours on the bigger projects in order to advance quicker and obtain blueprints of the better ships and refuse to make anything below 3rd rate.

[Hethwill]

Do you honestly think we'll ever get AI that is not a pushover if you bring sufficient numbers?

 

You talk about a situation where you are prepared.... I mean they attack you on when you are not. As opposite to passive.

But Galileus answers in a more sarcastic manner that touches the very nature of the issue at hand.

[Justme]

I only play since the EA launch, so this might have been brought up before. I personally don’t like the capture mechanics and their impact on the economy / PVP they have right now.  For me PvP was always more meaningful, when you really had to risk something. (Like flying real expensive ships in eve i.e.)

 

In NA so far, I don’t even care if I loose my 3rd rate, it will just take me like 30min to cap a new one. In my opinion it would be better to only be able to capture ships in PvP not against AI. This would also boost the Player economy, since you actually would have to craft/buy ships instead of just using captured ships all the times.Captured AI ships should only be able to be sent to the Admiralty for some prize money.

 

While you might keep the AI capture in for lower class ships to pacify the casuals, I strongly would recommend at least preventing this for 4th rate and higher ships. This ships should be somewhat special and not spammable.

 

If this would change you should also change the Blueprint system, since you can’t just cap and break down dozens of higher class ships anymore to get them precious BP, but this is another topic.

 

So what do you guys think about this issue?

You do realize not everyone wants this to be an Economy only game right?

[Galileus]

But Galileus answers in a more sarcastic manner that touches the very nature of the issue at hand.

 

Also Cookie Cutter Capped Crap rolls off of a tongue nicely. It's a great pickup line, too!

 

 

You do realize not everyone wants this to be an Economy only game right?

 

Removing the C4 from the game makes it BOTH as opposed to BATTLE ONLY that it can easily function as of now. Right now crafters are useless - the good they provide come in easier and cheaper by themselves with every cap. And they are easier to move around.

 

Removing C4 would make it both eco and battle game. Suggesting that it would remove battles form the game (somehow...) is poor man's demagogy and fear mongering.

[Quarios]

You do realize not everyone wants this to be an Economy only game right?

I am all for a player driven economy, eve proves it works.

 

If you not into eco you just do your missions and buy your ships from the market which will be supplied by the crafters. No need to get involved into the economy if you don't want to.

 

Ofc for this to happen there needs to be some changes to the production and market areas of the game. (i.e. better order System, higher chances for BP's)

[Francis Tabernac]

I'm mixed on this. I see both arguments, but I think the ideal would be a middle ground: allow caps up to 3rd Rate as it is now, but have capped ships operate not only with fewer Durability but with lesser performance overall. Turn rate is slower, cannon reload is slower, maybe even a slightly smaller maximum crew. Something to reflect the difference between a new ship fresh out of the docks vs a refurbished ship you beat the hell out of after finding it at random out at sea, where the previous owner did God-knows-what to it. Still a perfectly good ship, and still essentially free, but clearly (if not significantly) inferior to a crafted one. Something for everyone.

[Valetudin Arian]

You know all you have to do is paint ai ships clownish colors, make them only give you a trading card in steam instead of a usable ship in game, and then give the players like me who craft ships control of all economy so we can funnel all the money in game into one area of our liking.

I am just saying stop beating around the bush with these pansy ideas about economy at the detriment of play-ability.

[DrZoidberg]

Hey. Sorry to write again same ideas about patch and game, but i think now u have the time u can do it really good. I made some new ideas aswell.

Thx for new patch. It wont be bad, but it has bad changes as many as good i think. I write down what i change if i were u.
1. You shouldnt let players capture AI ship over Belle Paul.
This game best part is PVP, and i liked the frigate fights most, from Cerberus to Belle Paul. I think most player does it too, while everybody want to get large rate ships aswell. Its so stupid thing, that u worked out these 5 th rate ships very well, but players can easily capture AI Constitusions and 3rd rates. It has no meaning to play with these ships after leveling. Port battles after a short early acses are filled with 3rd, nothing else, while it should be mostly 5th rate fight with some (not much) stronger ship atm. Im a master boarder, now my fleet looks like 5-10 capped Consti, 5-10 capped 3rd rate, depending how many i sell for money. Big rate fights just lost unique status, as they should be. Its easy for me to play, but not challenging with this fleet, and not that enjoyable as 5th rate fights. i dont have the goal to craft 3rd, or fight with frigates asweell. U should give us back these goals simultaneusly, but u can do only it if u dont let capture ai ships over 5th rate. Like if we cap it, admirality should get them automatically for the money they should be sold at NPC traders to streghten the National Home Fleet. Those ships can be captured make meaningless to craft lower ships with exceptional quality aswell. I have a new idea about capturing Constis and 3rd in misisions!! Make underdog status in National war system. The underdog nation should be wich Nation lost most of thier ports and they dont have like 15 ports. Now they should be Spanish. This Nation with underdog status should capture Constis and 3rds in missions to streghten the National Caribean fleet, till thier dont get back the certain port number. This change will make enjoyable low populated and weak Nations, as at time to time when they low on ports should make a hard capped fleet to hit back.
2. Every gun type is too accurate, but does low damage.
At the moment with good sail positioning and aiming my all long cannon shoot land on enemy, thats not realistic. Long cannons should spread thier salvo like carronedes does, and carronades should spread more aswell. if u want to elong battle times (to streghten side armor will do that) u should increase shoot spreading, not increase side armour. Plus the damage what a full salvo does is ironic, compared what it should. Btw i dunno why u wanna weaken nose armor, as i read captains tank with nose forward mostly in that time. They dont turn side to enemy to tank, they turn it to shoot...
3. Frugal interface lookout in early acces? Why u dont ask players to make interface ideas?
4. Linear leveling. Shitload of my teammates are sick of leveling. These people will leave game shortly, if u dont change. We can only level by same type missions. U should make shitload type of missions. like delivery missions (take a family, chestbox, etc... from x to y), spying missions (like u seems as an enemy nation captain till u go in thier capital/regional capital city, after u in the city u get back ur real nationality, and u have to escape out), pvp missions (u should use ur players imaginaton again). I think i read about group missions from  u aswell.  Where is it? U prefer solo only playstyle against solo and party playstyle?
5. Still low xp on PVP. Solo PVE play should be only an alternative way to level, main way should be PVP to make the servers really busy.
Sorry guyz to say, but i have a feeling. Imo leader developer just felt love in ur game real battle part. that side of the game is the most enjoyable, and it was good some month ago aswell. U just recalibrate side, rudder etc armour month after month, and u dont take care of the real problems. U should improve weak game parts not game parts u prefer most.  I dont want to hurt u, i want this game succesfull, as its a real gemstone.

6. I have one last idea. If u make all these changes u give more way to level up, give 2 new long goals for hardcore and not hardcore playerz and a ballance between nations. The high end content shuld be the National Home Fleet battles. Time to time they should be made on event rooster. From all port all ships can be deploy in, but the most BR can get in with the sort of the attack starter person (Home Fleet Attack Starter). Nations should start again another nation like 1 per every two days for 3-400 K gold cost and for getting an enemy port they wanted. If the home fleet wins, the port automatically surrenders and will be captured by the attacker Nation.

[PL_Harpoon]

 

I like Bananas

 

Finally, a vote option I can 100% relate to

[Porpoise]

Well, capturing a ship was the most common outcome of sea engagement in the age of sail, so I think it should be preserved at some point. But I must admit, that there is endless number of AI ships floating arround which can be captured and it hurts economy and RvR too much.

[thp]

it hurts nothing but maybe only the rich players that cannot be more rich by selling their crafted ships

and "economy" is just another word to say, let the rich be strong and the poor is condemmed to suffer.

I am always for everyone having equals weapons and may the best skilled players win.

p.s : i m not a poor player either and I m not the richest either since i dont focus on making gold if I do that I could be billionnair right now.

Edited April 5, 2016 by thp

[Wilson09]

I never ever used capped ships for anything,

mostly broke them up for the blueprints.

 

Now, being "foreced" to sail on a capped 3rd rate to be able to got to PB

with the clan mates feels so bad.

 

I feel "robbed" somehow...I hate capped 3rd rates,

they even kill off the small battles....

 

And they say it takes 10-15min to cap a 3rd rate.......pffffff.

 

Capture?

Yes, but sold to admirality only

or

break them up for a blueprint (or something else) drop.

[Carljcharles]

It should be possible to capture any ship at sea .

 

'Send to port' is problematic because:-

It is instant

It removes the ship from OW

It has no negative affect on your current situation.

It is exploited to send new powerful ships to far off destination by capping traders.

It no where near realistic

 

I suggest;

Captured ship becomes part of your fleet but obviously is only sailed with a 'Prize Crew'.

Until Crew is actually implement - your ship receives an equivalent Nurf to account for a portion of your crew now on the other ship sailing it. So any further battle your performance is affected. If you capture a huge ship in a mid ship - your crew will be severally affected accordingly

This 'Prize Crew' cannot then Fight in any subsequent battle with the ship because as a Prize crew it has the absolute minimum to get it to sail.

If you enter battle the cap prize ship would appear in battle but only just sail and would also be able to take damage and potentially get sunk or captured.

   **Even after visiting port it remains a prize crew until you sell it or swap to it - This should not introduce fighting fleets via captured ships.

 

You could allow the send to port option with the prize crew but this would simply be the AI sails it back in OW with MINIMAL crew - if - its engaged as sea it can be re-captured and that's the risky option if you want to send it off.

No calculation to risk involved based on route. You look at the map and decide if its risky or not.

This option would also be based on the real time it will take to sail the ship.