[PvP2] Vive La France

[Bach]

Ugh, retaking ports vs. towers?  Spending 150k to 600k gold to get a crafting note, maybe?  Tedious at best.

Crossing my fingers on a map reset before we have to get into any of that crap.

[Obliterati]

If the pirates had stopped at the Camp Du Roy area there would have been plenty of French not happy about it, but I doubt it would have escalated to the point it has.  To take that position and then continue to move further South, first by attacking Kingstown while in addition a contingent of Rats that were trying to establish a foothold in South America was what pushed the French over.

 

I wont disagree with that... Though camp du roy area was over populated and we had multiple pirate clans wanting the south east. That all happened right at the start of the "great migration" of pirates. Plus the camp du roy pirates needed oak/iron/hemp badly. Still do honestly. The only real place to get that (all things considered) was south.

 

Though things have somewhat changed. The danies are dead now. Technically their ports are open for the taking if someone wanted to grind them. Why not start there? Why can't we find common ground by working together to get you the ports you need to the north and working both our ways towards our real enemy waters?

its an option anyway.

Edited February 25, 2016 by Obliterati

[Taranis]

Ugh, retaking ports vs. towers?  Spending 150k to 600k gold to get a crafting note, maybe?  Tedious at best.  

 

Been getting a number of notes from capped pirates.  Thank goodness, cause they take so many hours otherwise.

[Arsilon]

I wont disagree with that... Though camp du roy area was over populated and we had multiple pirate clans wanting the south east. That all happened right at the start of the "great migration" of pirates. Plus the camp du roy pirates needed oak/iron/hemp badly. Still do honestly. The only real place to get that (all things considered) was south.

 

Though things have somewhat changed. The danies are dead now. Technically their ports are open for the taking if someone wanted to grind them. Why not start there? Why can't we find common ground by working together to get you the ports you need to the north and working both our ways towards our real enemy waters?

its an option anyway.

 

And this is why there is no common ground for true and meaningful dialogue.  And the situation gets worse every day since we've now created a situation where there is a lot of PvP against a smaller nation which a lot of pirates will find much more attractive than the PvP to be had in the Bahamas or elsewhere where you're on the other side of the zerg.  Most pirates that are new to the area seem to think the pickings will be easier when they first show up and start getting into fights with the French.  We fight the only fight we can with our smaller numbers and smaller ships which is the guerilla warfare style that seems to really make so many of you mad.  We have told you outright many times and continue to prove in game that we are more than willing to stay and put up a fight all the way to reset if we have to.   There still seems to be some believe on the part of some (many?) pirates that there is a victory condition where we will say, OK you win and go away.  (Note:  taking all our ports, even Pedernales won't accomplish this).

 

So rather than encouraging pirates to leave the area, more seem to be showing up all the time.  Whether the pirates are on a rotation or whatever the reason we see more and more new guild tags all the time.  The French team is united in their desire to stay and defend the south (there are of course those that are not happy with the situation but do not mistake that for anything other than 100% unity on that goal).  The same can not be said for pirates.  The pirates have an issue they need to deal with.  How do you get the pirates to agree on what they want and make it stick?  Until you guys can solve that problem we're never going to make any progress.

[Arbour]

I wouldn't call this a "blame game" though more like a strategic blunder on the pirates side that forced only one outcome, you can call the blaming but it is simple the truth.  Pirates to the North, fine.  Pirates to the South, well that just leaves France with one enemy, and with one enemy available in a PvP game the only option is to fight that one enemy.  This is why we told them their "peace" proposal was stupid because their idea of how to divide the ports would have left France backed into a corner surrounded by pirates....the same situation that we are in without a peace deal.  It's super simple.  If pirates would have left the South open, or the North even, France would prolly be fighting the Dutch or Sweds or Danes or Brits.  Call it blaming maybe but it's simple grand strategy.  Want an enemy to fight someone else, give them the ability to fight someone else.  But this whole scenario, the good and the bad, is all a consequence of the pirates actions and the French ability to not be afraid of a fight (unlike some nations).

 

Don't get me wrong, France is having fun, and the 2 major clans are growing.  But with only one enemy within striking distance to satisfy our bloodlust, then there is no choice at all.  

[[MCC] Die Antwoord]

Geez this convo took one hell of a turn.

I'll be honest, out of character here, I wanted that deal that went south to work. We aren't here for small nation bashing and I'd dare say a majority of pirates think it went too far.

I have a feeling that the angry people on both sides are probably way too angry for any deal to even be considered at this point though... But we have yet to have a single frenchie reach out and plead for mercy.

We didn't come here to crush them.. But one thing led to another and Slamz pissed off everyone.

[Arsilon]

Geez this convo took one hell of a turn.

I'll be honest, out of character here, I wanted that deal that went south to work. We aren't here for small nation bashing and I'd dare say a majority of pirates think it went too far.

I have a feeling that the angry people on both sides are probably way too angry for any deal to even be considered at this point though... But we have yet to have a single frenchie reach out and plead for mercy.

We didn't come here to crush them.. But one thing led to another and Slamz pissed off everyone.

 

This is exactly why there can be no dialogue.

 

The French don't want nor do they need mercy.  It's this attitude where the olive branch expected on the part of the French is for them to come begging to you on bended knee.  This is the attitude that was prevalent at the "Grand Offer" and is the attitude that continues today.  

[Arbour]

If I was the one we chose to speak in the meeting with the pirates, I would have done the same thing that slamz did (maybe i would have a bounty on my head then).  We said in the meeting that the proposal was a bad one, and pirates returned an ultimatum back, and I quote "this is the deal, it's not changing, accept it or we will bring a ***storm upon you"  You may have only heard slamz speak but the French nation said "We vote ****storm."

[Obliterati]

The irony is that the french haven't even realized it yet. They still consider themselves "defending" the south. I got news for you. The south is pirate territory. Accept it.

if you want to make a deal. Here is what it would take. We'll give you your newbro ports back around Fort Royal. We dont want them anyway. Then you make your new base west of the sweds in Danish territory. Your other option is to take Dutch territory.

 

The 2 main pirate power blocks... you aren't getting a single port from them. Accept it and move on.

[Vllad]

But we have yet to have a single frenchie reach out and plead for mercy.

 

 

That should tell you everything you need to know about what France thinks.

 

This should also tell everyone else that reads this exactly why we told the Pirates to shove it. This very sentence says it all.

 

 

I am sure the irony is lost on you.  

Edited February 25, 2016 by Vllad

[Arbour]

The irony is that the french haven't even realized it yet. They still consider themselves "defending" the south. I got news for you. The south is pirate territory. Accept it.

if you want to make a deal. Here is what it would take. We'll give you your newbro ports back around Fort Royal. We dont want them anyway. Then you make your new base west of the sweds in Danish territory. Your other option is to take Dutch territory.

 

The 2 main pirate power blocks... you aren't getting a single port from them. Accept it and move on.

 

Again pirates offer territory they don't even own in hopes that we are too afraid to fight, in a ship-fighting game.  Fighting is why we bought the game.  Your new offer is just as bad as your first one.  I swear you guys don't learn anything.  

[Vllad]

if you want to make a deal. Here is what it would take. We'll give you your newbro ports back around Fort Royal. We dont want them anyway. Then you make your new base west of the sweds in Danish territory. Your other option is to take Dutch territory.

 

The 2 main pirate power blocks... you aren't getting a single port from them. Accept it and move on.

 

Holy cow! Wow, you guys haven't paid any attention at all. At least time it is in writing so we can point at it and laugh.

 

 

Just so we are clear. To the control the South East you have to remove the French from the Sea's. This game isn't played with Avatars so your control of the ports mean nothing. As long as I can sail anywhere I want in the South East killing Pirates you don't control squat, accept it and move on.  

[[MCC] Die Antwoord]

That should tell you everything you need to know about what France thinks.

 

This should also tell everyone else that reads this exactly why we told the Pirates to shove it. This very sentence says it all.

 

 

I am sure the irony is lost on you.

Stop thinking we are dumb. I understand all the subtilities. What you fail to understand is that you lost the war even though you don't realize or acknowledge it.

We offered several things to you guys and never once backed out of them. You never offered anything, never, in fact all you've done is make demands. You are in no position to make demands. You can beg for mercy and we'll probably grant it and more than likely give back more than you would even expect.

We need to hear Slamz' shacky voice on teamspeak asking for mercy with tears in his eyes. Is it too much to ask? That's honestly all we've wanted since all this started.

[Æthlstan]

So.....the Koreans were beat when America owned all the land up to the Yellow River? Sure.

So the Vietnamese were beat because America owned or destroyed pretty much everything useful?

Hmmm.

[Slamz]

Though if the pirates would work more as a team. We could stranglehold what little you do get.

 

The reason you have not gotten the pirates to work more as a team is because you have not really given them a plan that sounds fun, is fun, or has any real moments of heroism or daring to it. I dare say myself and a number of others have done a great job of keeping the French team together partially because we think we have a pretty fun way to play the game, make every effort to communicate that to the team and bring them in on it, and they have a great cause to rally for. Yeah, sometimes people complain about the lost ports or say things like "We should attack [insert deep water port here] tonight!" but it's usually not hard to bring them around to our thinking "because pirates".

 

You need to give the pirate team a real target. Something with some real blood and glory to it. I think you're looking at the strategic map and forgetting entirely about the gameplay and therefore the players and therefore the pirates themselves.

 

But you don't listen to me and you don't listen to your fellow pirates, either. I don't even know why you come here. I'm touting the glorious French Resistance Movement. What are you touting?

 

1) while you are creating a tight group of hardcore PvP players for your nation, you lose prospective players who are turned off by your geopolitical situation and lack of opportunities to explore the game to its fullest, 2) current situation is breeding long term hostilities and prevents future discourse and possible collaboration between Pirates and France

 

I really don't mind #1. I would never go out of my way to kill newbies but in every PvP game, if a newbie is in front of me I will kill him. I file this under "Welcome to PvP". If you can't walk into a PvP game, get smashed and think "I need to get better at this game and exact my revenge later" then you probably aren't my kinda PvPer. If we are losing anything in France, it is the sort of player I generally find to be ultimately useless anyway. I want people who will fight (or at least seek out information on the situation and learn). France is gaining veterans.

 

#2 is best explained by Obliterati and brucy's last messages, which are in exactly the same tone and roughly the same content of the original "Grand Offer".

 

I literally cannot think of a circumstance under which I would collaborate with these pirates. I understand there are different pirates out west -- guilds I have never seen. Maybe them I could collaborate with some day. But I somehow suspect that if I allied up with these current pirates, the only thing they would manage to do is find some Dutch player who makes them angry and then we'd all waste 4 weeks down there getting bogged down by about 15 Dutch players all because a few pirate leaders got a bug up their butt. You know that's going to happen next time. When they fight the U.S. (if they ever do), I can give the U.S. leaders some real pro-tips on how to manipulate these emo pirates.

 

 

Brucy and Obliterati are destroying the pirate team in a way the French never could.

 

And it's amazing to watch.

 

Let's keep doing that.

[Æthlstan]

What you fail to realize is that when ports mean nothing, when you dont need ports to be in an area, its impossible to beat a determined enemy.

You also like patting yourself on the back for rolling a nation you outnumber so heavily. I guess you need something to make you feel better for not going back north.

[Vllad]

 What you fail to understand is that you lost the war even though you don't realize or acknowledge it.

 

 

 

Until you remove my ability to log on and sit in the sea's you think you control and kill Pirates I am afraid the war gets to go on until Naval Action says different.  We may have to throw the Pedernales fight just to show you that we don't need Ports to fight in this game.

 

I love this game. The Pirates sell us and provide us the resources to kill their own team.

[Obliterati]

Again pirates offer territory they don't even own in hopes that we are too afraid to fight, in a ship-fighting game.  Fighting is why we bought the game.  Your new offer is just as bad as your first one.  I swear you guys don't learn anything.  

 

What are you talking about... we own your newbro ports.

[Æthlstan]

Pirates: ALL YOUR PORTS ARE BELONG TO US

French: cool story bro

[King Prince Chambermaid]

No one actually does that though; or at the very least I've never seen/heard of it actually being done. Though it has been discussed as an option. Plus I personally consider it an exploit.

 

The main reason is because ships are to expensive. For example our most advanced crafter is charging 13 crafting notes + 4 crafting notes and all parts to build a ship. Which is free crafting XP for him and 13 Cnote profit.

 

Even the more reasonably priced ships normally have 50-100k markup over cost, and require the buyer to furnish Cnotes.

 

Meanwhile in our US clan, everyone is helping each other out and our crafters are refusing to let us overpay for ships (trincs btw)...

[Taralin Snow]

The very first thing I did when I started this game as a brand new level 1, is leave Fort Royal and sail south, because I heard that's where the good PvP was.

 

so, I really don't know much about these "newbro ports".  what are they good for, and why would I want them?

Edited February 25, 2016 by Taralin Snow

[Obliterati]

The reason you have not gotten the pirates to work more as a team is because you have not really given them a plan that sounds fun, is fun, or has any real moments of heroism or daring to it. I dare say myself and a number of others have done a great job of keeping the French team together partially because we think we have a pretty fun way to play the game, make every effort to communicate that to the team and bring them in on it, and they have a great cause to rally for. Yeah, sometimes people complain about the lost ports or say things like "We should attack [insert deep water port here] tonight!" but it's usually not hard to bring them around to our thinking "because pirates".

 

You need to give the pirate team a real target. Something with some real blood and glory to it. I think you're looking at the strategic map and forgetting entirely about the gameplay and therefore the players and therefore the pirates themselves.

 

But you don't listen to me and you don't listen to your fellow pirates, either. I don't even know why you come here. I'm touting the glorious French Resistance Movement. What are you touting?

 

 

I really don't mind #1. I would never go out of my way to kill newbies but in every PvP game, if a newbie is in front of me I will kill him. I file this under "Welcome to PvP". If you can't walk into a PvP game, get smashed and think "I need to get better at this game and exact my revenge later" then you probably aren't my kinda PvPer. If we are losing anything in France, it is the sort of player I generally find to be ultimately useless anyway. I want people who will fight (or at least seek out information on the situation and learn). France is gaining veterans.

 

#2 is best explained by Obliterati and brucy's last messages, which are in exactly the same tone and roughly the same content of the original "Grand Offer".

 

I literally cannot think of a circumstance under which I would collaborate with these pirates. I understand there are different pirates out west -- guilds I have never seen. Maybe them I could collaborate with some day. But I somehow suspect that if I allied up with these current pirates, the only thing they would manage to do is find some Dutch player who makes them angry and then we'd all waste 4 weeks down there getting bogged down by about 15 Dutch players all because a few pirate leaders got a bug up their butt. You know that's going to happen next time. When they fight the U.S. (if they ever do), I can give the U.S. leaders some real pro-tips on how to manipulate these emo pirates.

 

 

Brucy and Obliterati are destroying the pirate team in a way the French never could.

 

And it's amazing to watch.

 

Let's keep doing that.

 

Funny it doesn't look like we're destroying anything. Pirates are bigger stronger and more organized than ever before. While you are fewer, weaker and less effective. You can pat yourself on the back for attacking low hanging fruit that isn't smart enough not to accept a mission right next to a freeport filled with hostiles.

[Random]

 

#2 is best explained by Obliterati and brucy's last messages, which are in exactly the same tone and roughly the same content of the original "Grand Offer".

 

I literally cannot think of a circumstance under which I would collaborate with these pirates. I understand there are different pirates out west -- guilds I have never seen. Maybe them I could collaborate with some day. But I somehow suspect that if I allied up with these current pirates, the only thing they would manage to do is find some Dutch player who makes them angry and then we'd all waste 4 weeks down there getting bogged down by about 15 Dutch players all because a few pirate leaders got a bug up their butt. You know that's going to happen next time. When they fight the U.S. (if they ever do), I can give the U.S. leaders some real pro-tips on how to manipulate these emo pirates.

 

 

Brucy and Obliterati are destroying the pirate team in a way the French never could.

 

 

 

To be honest, now that I've thought about it some more, I'm not sure if the players running the Pirate clans will stick around if pirate mechanics are substantially reworked and it becomes significantly more difficult for pirates to exist as a nation. The sheer number of clans suggests an overabundance of large egos. Egos that apparently cannot take a bruising (evident in Bahamas exodus and inability to admit strategic mistake with France that has caused this particular quagmire); egos that might not be willing to settle for a perpetually losing side (as pirates should be). Clans, however, are not the only players out there. If differences can be settled and agreements reached, French-Pirate cooperation will result in the whole Pirate nation developing a rather favorable opinion of the French. As it stands now, the larger portion of non-clan affiliated pirates look at the map and figure that French just rolled over without realizing that quite the opposite is going on. Settle your differences with the clans and you will gain a future ally that has nothing to do with the people you despise now. 

 

Clans in general are a detriment to national unity. They create a horizontal organization with too many chiefs that oftentimes precludes setting a national agenda. In order for Pirates as a nation to have one concrete goal that all or most can work towards achieving 10+ clans have to agree to it. Given the fact that individuals founding separate clans instead of joining existing ones seek individualism and power rather than organization and unity, such agreements are highly unlikely, and the number of our clans keeps growing... 

 

Not being in any clan I am having a hard time putting together the so called "Grand Offer" or the current state of Pirate propositions (aside from their childish demands of pleas for mercy). Am I correct in assuming that Pirates are proposing to return Saint Pierre and La Trinita to the French in exchange for the ceasefire and French relinquishing claims to all other ports that they've lost? If so, which clans are on board with that proposal and which are willing to negotiate?

[Obliterati]

Meanwhile in our US clan, everyone is helping each other out and our crafters are refusing to let us overpay for ships (trincs btw)...

 

Must be nice to be large enough to have competition in your market place.

[Arbour]

What are you talking about... we own your newbro ports.

 

But St. Pierre and La Trinitie have no strategic or economic value.  Taking those back gain us nothing other than a couple blue dots on a map.  Anything we want to accomplish around the FR area we can do so without those ports.  It's a hollow gesture.