Ryan21

There is a foundation in England wanting to build a proper sailing replica of the Lenox, a 74. Its a very early 74 (http://www.buildthelenox.org/), I would love to see something more along the lines of the Ajax or the Superb, by the 1770's the rigs on these ships were quite efficient for seafaring, with the topsails having up to 4 reef bands, and being the primary sails. The ship's could keep the sea in basically any weather and be self sufficient for 6-8 months and longer. The Kalmar is a good example of the earlier period with enormous non reefable topsails. I am sure she is quite the performer in light to moderate airs but I would rather be on a beamy later period ship like Constitution or Trincomalee with 30 knots blowing, you can tuck those reef's in and ride it. One of the problems with the earlier period sail plans was the reliance on the courses, after those enormous topsails came in you'd be riding out a gale on your courses, which was fine until the sea was higher than the courses and becalmed them, and then you would lose way and risk being pooped. A good example of the later technology is shown in those pictures just posted of Hermione with her main and fore topsail close reefed, not sure whats going on with the mizzen but you get the idea.

Wow, I had no notion of that Russian line of battle ship. Her rigging needs some doing to be functional from what I can see but that really looks like the genuine article. I am astonished, I did not know that there was any ship of the line replica afloat. You could set her up for sea. What a shame they don't rig her for sailing and use her.

Charge of the light Brigade, 1960's version. Sharpes Rifles. And by far the best period nautical movie, Mutiny on the Bounty 1962, Master and commander was very good but they REALLY actually sailed the bounty for just about every shot in the movie except in the storm which of course at the time was done with models, I watch this movie over and over just to watch the sailing shots of bounty. In master and commander they shamefully used CGI for a number of sailing shots, one especially where the sails are barely full and she's putting out a wake that makes her look like she's running 12 knots on a flat calm sea.

No sir it would not. She was re-rigged to brig for a number of reasons. But the rig does not dictate the speed limitations of vessels unless the vessel is under rigged, Lady Washingtons hull speed is 9 knots, that is the fastest the hull can displace water out of its way, no matter what the rig, you can only exceed that speed when surfing or "planing" on top of a very great sea state and trust me when I say you would not want to have an enormous gaff rigged mainsail to deal with in weather like that, one accidental gybe and you lose 3/4's of your total sail area. The brig rig has more than enough sail area for her to reach hull speed and it's quite effective offshore in the trades, and more controllable in rough weather. She is a stout merchant vessel, and did her intended job well.

In the Navy fully manned a frigate or line of battle ship could set all three masts one sail at a time plus the headsails at the same time, main mizzen and for topsails would be sheeted home together and halyards walked around the deck at the same time. Of course at sea in watches this didnt always happen this way but the Navy had the manpower and knew how to do things efficiently. Check this out.

I heartily agree, although being her boatswain I can tell you that she was never a fast vessel in any sense of the word haha. Although she has excellent sailing qualities, I have rarely seen her miss stays, she tacks and wears in the lightest of wind if handled properly, and is exceptionally robust in her construction, she is the vessel I cut my teeth on so to speak and my favourite little brig.

The brig already has significantly more firepower than the schooners, get a copy of seamanship in the age of sail, learn about Center of lateral resistance and factors affecting rotation and about how to properly manuever a square rigger and then go back to the game, I am currently quite satisfied with the brig. In fact I wouldn't even complain about the current inertia, I have had no problem slowing the brig at the opportune moment and turning right under opponents sterns, often with my jiboom crossing their quarterdeck and delivering a broadside.

Some schooners would have been able to carry six pounders, schooners of the period varied greatly in size, and many of them as stated used fairly heavy carronades for maximum punch. As a merchant brig the original Lady Washington of 210 tons carried two 6 pounder long guns and between 6 and 8 1 pounder swivels, the six pounder is fairly hefty but could still be carried by smaller vessels, the 9 and 12 pounders however are a huge jump in size and weight.

well, this is interesting, because upon re-entering the game I was most pleased with the brig, if you know how to use manual control she really does tack and wear close to the real thing. What are your largest concerns as admin? I know people complain that they are slow and manuever poorly, the reality is that yes a brig with a bluff blow is going to be much slower in general and in stays than a baltimore clipper like the Lynx. I have however found them to be quite usefull in game, I can very nearly spin her on a dime by properly wearing ship and find she has special maneuvering capabilities that can counter the smaller vessels speed, she also packs much more of a punch than the schooners, I really am finding it hard to find to many major faults here, you cant make them faster, because they simply aren't. Unless they are a brig with an enormous rig and a fine clipper bow like Niagara, or one of the later 1820's to 1830's brigs that handled quite well compared to there earlier counterparts. Niagara has a hull speed of 15 knots or therabouts and tacks very quickly, but the current brigs in game have the late 1700's hull shape so I would say their maneuverability is fairly realistic. Perhaps you should add a little variety to soothe the brig Naysayers, we really have three very similar brigs, that perform largely the same, maybe take out say the generic Navy brig and actually model the Niagara, which is radically different, being quite large for a brig, 198' overall, 30' beam, fine clipper bow, immense rig, etc.. She had 18 32 lber carronades and 2 12 lb long chasers, for a vessel that is twice the length of Lady she tacks like a ferrari, and I think it would be an interesting segway between the brigs and the larger vessels, her biggest handicap is her range with the carronades but she really was the USS Constitution of sloops of war. The ship plans are readily available, in fact I have a full set of them at my house. She also sails closer and faster on the wind than the shorter bluff bowed brigs, I was on the tiller and watched her point 48 degrees on the anemometer with full topsails, not luffing, and we were making 8.5-9 knots in a 20 knot breeze, on the older vessels it's hard to get them to point higher than 65-60. She is slightly longer than the Surprise, but with much less free board and limited long range capability with her armament, she was meant to run in at light speed and hammer up close. http://images.travelpod.com/tripwow/photos/ta-009a-5cba-99e5/u-s-brig-niagara-duluth-united-states+1152_12796342478-tpfil02aw-16428.jpg Model her nicely, get rid of the Navy Brig, keep the regular brig and snow, and she would bridge the gap. I think players would love to use a very unusual vessel like this, also I believe this game should encourage and promote vessels that were historically significant, especially those that we have replica's of, this game could get people interested in really sailing these ships!

Your welcome! Johann is great. Venture was such a good port to us.

Hahaha. Really! I don't remember, I have been back in Victoria since the 3rd. Im usually pretty tunnel vision bound when I'm day sailing, trying to direct crew to the braces etc..

Greetings! After a ten month absence from the real world I am back from my two stints as Bosun on the brigantine Fair Jeanne and the Brig Lady Washington. I have to say the game has made leaps and bounds, I love how the brig tacks and wears, it really feels close to how Lady behaves, very well done. Hull speeds are a bit high in general but the game would be far to slow otherwise. On the whole it strikes a very good balance between reality and gameplay enjoyment. One thing I noticed with the schooners is that when they are sailing close on the wind from beam reach to close hauled they sail fastest with the booms wung out all the way, in reality when you are sailing on the wind this would spill some of the wind you could be using for drive, so they should be sheeted not completely fore and aft but just off when close hauled, and eased just a little bit more for the 90 degree beam reach. When you want the booms eased all the way out is on a broad reach or a run. Also when running, there should be a speed bonus for the booms being eased out on opposite sides, it's called running wing on wing, when running if both the booms are eased out on the same side the mainsail will block the wind from getting to the foresail and you will lose the driving force of the foresail. Also I want to say the storms are wonderful, but I really am begging you guys to consider that you cannot sail in force 8-9 with topgallants set, and since you seem to only have two basic sea/wind states would it really be that hard to adjust sailing parameters for two weather conditions? I know you guys cant do topsail reefing because it requires another animation but can you make it so that you have to work with just topsails and courses in the storm sea state? The ships should be going as fast off the wind in the storm state with tops and courses as they are with full sail in the normal wind state, make it so that you can set topgallants etc, and get a speed boost but make it steadily damage the masts and break them after a short period. Also there should be a large speed handicap when sailing close hauled in the storm, if you were making 10 knots off the wind you should be making maybe 5 at most into it, in real life that sea state pushes you back something brutal, also make it so that tacking in the storm takes longer so that people are forced to wear ship. Please heed this request devs. By the way did you borrow the Navy Brigs paint sceme from the Lady Washington;) I love it! PS. thank you sooo much for fixing the order of sail setting it was driving me nuts, things look alot more realistic now, with ships tooling around under tops and courses and not topgallants set above furled topsails.

It would certainly be better than full sail up to royals in a storm haha. You can carry Ladies full topsails to about 35 knots, then its generally good to throw a reef into them, at about 45 your going to want close reef. I would definately be up for a compromise with the devs, they are certainly doing a wonderful job.

Very cool. That is a beautiful model.

I have not been on the forum in awhile so I am not really aware if anything has been put on the table officially regarding proper sail set for worsening weather conditions. I think this could be a relatively simple but integral part of the game that will exponentially increase game depth and dispel the possible misconception for those who have not sailed on square riggers that you can have full sail set in 40 knots of wind, etc... I would like to draw on the support of people like me on this forum who care about the reality of sailing being embedded as best as it possibly can into this game. That being said, I read on the forum that the devs are testing a few different weather scenarios to decide on a few that work well for the game, with all things taken into account. With that being taken into account I think it is extremely important once these weather situations are decided upon that the devs set up realistic sail combinations that will work with each scenario, and if the player elects to set more sail, there should be possibility of damage and the recourse will be having to repair masts or spars, just as if they were shot away in battle. I think there should be a simple strain indicator in the HUD. Also I think that we should push for 1 or two more animations that bring the topsail yard lower to "reef" for the very heavy weather scenarios, I think that it would be well worth the effort. It does not need to be 100 percent accurate as long as it gets the point accross that you need to balance your sail plan depending on the weather scenario, also coming back to something Maturin said, I think in the release of the game you should be able to have more independant sail control, not required, but as an option for those of us who are really into sailing and understand the ship dynamics. So in short 1. Once a few weather scenarios are decided upon, there should be a "safe sail set" for that condition, and if you set more, you should be able to push it a bit but ultimately the consequence is damaging your vessel. 2. Reefing topsails animation . 3. Smaller vessels have lower margins of error, eg your cutter will have to reef or take in sail before a frigate will. 4. More independant sail control 5. Speeds in heavy weather with a big sea running should be reduced or handicapped when close hauled, and you shouldnt be able to set as much sail close hauled in heavy weather, so more "strain" in general close hauled. When off the wind in heavy weather the strain should be less and a speed bonus added, sometimes even exceeding a ships rated hull speed, because in real life you can effectively surf down large waves when running in heavy wind, which allows you to exceed your displacement hull speed by effectively "planing"

Im not sure if the Devs are still taking suggestions for new ships to be modeled before the release of the game, but a ship of the line a little later in period with different looking stern works, slightly different rig and more spartan bow features would give the game a sense of how ship construction evolved quickly from the 1700's to the 1820's. HMS Ganges was an 84 gun 2nd rate ship of the line, built of teak in the Royal Navies Bombay shipyard in 1821, she has a couple very notable differences in comparison with ships designed in the 1750s like Victory. Instead of main and mizzen staysails she has gaff rigged spencers on the fore and main that can be brailed in like the spanker. Her stern gallery has a distinctly different design than that of earlier days, and her bow is devoid of the fancy looking head rails you see on ships like Bellona and Victory. This picture was taken of her at anchor in front of my hometown ( Victoria, British Columbia) in the 1850's. She was flagship of the Pacific Station between 1857-61. She was notable in that she was the last active duty Sailing ship to serve as a flagship in the Royal Navy. She is a Canopus class ship of the line. She was in active service for more than 100 years.

I unfortunately have not sailed on the Sedov. I spent this season sailing as bosun on a Brigantine on the St. Lawrence river in Ontario, and most of last year sailing on the replica brigs, Lady Washington and Niagara. Before that I started on the Canadian topsail schooner Pacific Swift in Victoria. No plans yet for Hermione, they are focusing on getting the ship ready for the maiden voyage. The best place with the most up to date info and photo's has been either the facebook page of JB Riggers, the company that rigged her, or JB riggers website. http://jbriggers.se/ My personal favourite era is the era in which the Hermione was designed, 19th century, the pinnacle of the wooden sailing man of war. Next wednesday I fly to Seattle to be bosun on Lady Washington until January, looking forward to some down time in Victoria following that with which I will start my very ambitious project of writing a program for a historical education based sail training program for a historically accurate replica Royal Navy Brig I would like to build and operate out of Vancouver island. I just now ordered a full batch of ship plans from the maritime museum at Greenwich, for HMS Sealark, Brig of war, of 319 tons. She was built in the late 1830's and saw service off the African coast chasing down and capturing illegal slave traders, after which she was used as a Royal Navy sail training vessel into the early 1900s, she also acted as tender to HMS Impregnable, a ship of the line relegated to training duty. She has just the right set up I am looking for. I would like to build the first Replica ship from this era in Canada to promote high level square rig seamanship and rigging, and to keep alive the traditions of this era, the goal is to use 100 percent period correct Hemp standing rigging and manilla running. She would be the only vessel in her class in Canada. Ryan

To the developers. I am aware of how much you guys have on your plate at the moment, but I would like to make a suggestion. The replica 6th rate French Frigate Hermione that has been in the works for more than a decade is now doing sea trials in the Bay of Biscay. I think it would be great for the publicity of the ship and the game if she were added to your lineup of ships. Maybe you could do cross advertising with them.

Cool. Glad to see the game is progressing well. If you can try and keep on them about proper sail setting order, that really is important, no mariner wont laugh at topgallants set with nothing under them. You set from tops up, and take in from royals down, courses usually after the higher sails. If we get that visual ironed out and the sailing mechanics are coming along nicely this game is going to be amazing.

thanks for the feedback guys. Cant wait to play again.

Yes, all the traditional fore and aft schooners I have seen and sailed on have Gaff Vangs. For the game I think the simplest way to go about it would be to, instead of yard control, have the main yard controls labelled as and controlling the main sheet, and what would be the foreyard controls controlling the headsail easing and sheeting. Plus two buttons for fore yard control on square topsail schooners.

Just to clarify for the game devs, especially for named controls in game, Yards are the spars only used for square sails, on schooners the lower spar is called a boom, and the smaller upper spar of the same sail a gaff, so for tacking in game sheeting the main amidships should push you head to weather quicker, and easing the headsails, also the square fore topsail will work the exact same way in a tack that it will on a square rigger, it will back and assist pushing the vessels head through the eye, and when the sail will fill you let go and haul and brace the yards onto the new tack.

Hmm wierd, I hope that can be ammended, the fore stack really is a very seperate entity from the headsails, and affects the ship in a much larger way, think about it like the ship having two diesel engines, if you depower the fore you are cutting an engine and losing half your speed, also if the fore isnt braced on the old tack and backing the head of the ship wont come around because that is the prime force that brings the head of the ship across the eye onto the new tack. It sounds like the game has made steps in the right direction, I would really like to see a video of how it looks now. its totally worth getting this right.

Wait whats this about nuetralizing fore sails for tacking? The fore isnt supposed to be nuetralized, it is powering the ship forward giving her speed until it starts backing which rotates the ships head around. I wish I could test this new build but I'm on a job and my laptop I have here wont do it. Maybe someone could making a tacking video for the new build and show me how things are shaping up. In rl if you nuetralize the fore squares you lose half of your driving force, all you have to do excluding headsails and spanker is turn into the wind, when head to weather, mainsail haul, so the main yards get braced all the way around. And when the main starts to fill on the new tack the order let go and haul is given and the fore is braced around fully onto the new tack. If you neutralize the fore before turning upwind you will bleed off precious speed and momentum.

Go for it my friend, the day sail will give you a good idea of what to expect. Generally they will let you help them set and take in sail if you ask (not going aloft) but hauling and easing lines.