Sir Henry Morgan Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 Open World in Naval Action Concept: Information based System -Benefits : - Realistic regulation of PVP events - Realistic limitations for Pirates - Freedom of bypassing PVP battles - also enjoyable for lonewolves - no overloaded map with thousands of players and infos - realistic handicap for great fleets ( setting-up Fleet ) - dynamic missions, made by players - possibility to hide - great options for explorers (informations are valuable) - great possibilitys for quests and skript based events - Interactions are limited on its region (regulation) - Building a Convoi has its pros and contras... - dynamic trading system (read Jack Feathersord's post) - Informations could be betrayed (read Brigand's post) - Ship to Ship communication (read Johny Rep's post) - Ambush tactics are possible (read Johny rep's post) - Teamspeak is still a practicaly thing but not OP - Realistic fog of war (you need sight (12NM) or coordinates (Map) of a event, ships or battles) - Explanation: Information on the map are based of a «Information travel System». If something has hapend or is happening, it needs a observer. The Observer now transports this knowledge to a Place (Port, town, etc) from there the Information spreads and goes further. Only what you can know, is also shown on "your" map! Additional Benefit Examples: - Battles: Battles are something personal and only joinable if the info is there. And thats something you can affect. But its allways not for sure. - Regulation: As this system only shows informations that actually can be known. It regulates the problem of bundle of fluff - Bypass PVP: If you come close to a PVP event (f.ex. 12 nautical miles you can choose to join or bypass) bypassing means, taking the info with you. - Dynamic Missions: You can choose to spread the word. Transporting a information to a certain location can affect some reactions. Endless potential! - Explorers: They have a good. Information! - Regions: As sailing is a slow thing and for a game in realtime not enjoyable. It compensates the fast travel issue with the lack of information. Locations can be reached fast, but events have to have to be found first. This makes things more realistic i guess. - Pirates limits: As a pirate you just shouldnt attack a trader on a traderoute. Because the chance that somebody takes the info to the next port is high. Then its just a matter of minutes, until a royal ship will come to clarify the situation. - Lonewulfes: This system would allow you to go your own way. You can hide on a smal island or port wheres not much traffic. You can attack other players without fearing that within seconds there will be 10 friends of it, because of teamspeak. You just have to choose your prise wisely. Takeing out a ship on a unsecure, low traffic spot. - Great Fleets: Positioning the information on a busy harbor to build a great Fleet. Royal Navy attacks Town X against Spanish in 45 min. Wait... Because that has to take some time. In the meantime the information reaches the enemy. Which now can counter react. - Quests: As shown in the map. The developers now can put endless events in the map. The risk, if a quest is started, hounderts of players are running for it (bundle of fluff) is eliminated. Theres still the possibility that other players unravel your plan. For example a tresure map. When youre making a stopover for resupplying, there is a chance (random generator) that one of your crewmembers is betraying the secret. Now you have a problem... But still not everybody knows it. Only this port for now... But you have to hurry... -Convois While a convoi can give you security for a trade travel it also means, that you have to wait for its formation on the port. In this time the information spreads and gives some players time and the posibility to form a ambush. Wouldnt that be awsome ???? Things you may have to consider: (Thers more i know. But hey, its just an idea! ) - Teamspeak: This could ruin the experience of this system, as it would be possible to cheat. No! Because you have to pass a event within 12 nautical miles before you can see it. Which is not much. It is may possible to find a location without seeing it on map. But its more or less rolling a dice. - Time and Events: You may would say its not feasible to coordinate things in terms of time and distance. This has to be balanced with fasttravel system. And actually i see it as a benefit. As fasttravel is unrealistic anyway. This puts things togehter and works more in regions... - Past events: Johny Rep made a good point. What if there are to many old events, which are actually to old to interact with it or you'll be to late all the time. As i think this is life May it could be solved with a simple system. You allways see when this event has started, not when it was detected by somebody. You see the number and type of involved ships and their faction. Like this you can evaluate if it makes sens to go for. I think its a benefit anyway, it shouldnt be common if you fight a battle and there are comming reinforcement all the time. This should be bad luck... Thanks for your thoughts guys. See you out there Sir Henry Morgan 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thundershield Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 I'm re-reading this to get a better understanding of your proposed system, and figuring out the map you made. But I'd like to point out, that a system that can be completely undone by the use Teamspeak, has vital flaws since you cannot, nor should you, forbid people from using it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herzog Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 Also i would like the idea that as a pirate (when you capture your ship) you can name it and maybe even design your own flag. Of course there will be limits to what you can name it to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Henry Morgan Posted February 8, 2015 Author Share Posted February 8, 2015 I'm re-reading this to get a better understanding of your proposed system, and figuring out the map you made. But I'd like to point out, that a system that can be completely undone by the use Teamspeak, has vital flaws since you cannot, nor should you, forbid people from using it. I wont forbiding it, because it will be used anyway. But it doesent give a great superiority to non users. And Teamspeak aka radio communication doesent fit in this age i think. My idea is simulating only the normal flow of information this age had. But honestly i would hate it to, not to teamspeak with friends in a battle... The communication with flags they had this time would be great but probably not feasable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flip Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 If battles take a similar amount of time as they do in combat testing (which they should), so say 15-30 minutes for a small fight or medium fight. How far could a trader get within that time, and why would it even matter if it takes longer for that trader (A-B-C route on the bottom of the map) to get to the port than it takes for the battle to be over? Let alone for other ships to leave that port and sail to said battle. If you are a proponent of no fast travel it makes it all kind of redundant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brigand Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 The idea is a nice one, it somewhat models the fact that information travelled far more slowly in the age of sail. I think this can work, even in a world where instant communications such as team speak and chat are available at the same time. Because of chat, when, for example, an exploration player gets attacked by some other player gone pirate, the explorers clan mates will know when it happens and of course they can try to send help, etc. Yet, the act of piracy itself is not communicated inside the game world, before the explorer (or any law abiding ship they met after the encounter; information spreads like an virus, 'contaminating' everyone it touches) sails into a port. Only when the information reaches port, the authorities will put up a "wanted: dead or alive" notice on the harbour masters office. I think that it should be quite interesting to have a system like this... it would offer interesting gameplay possibilities such as leaving no man alive after a battle? what if some sailor survived anyhow? Cheers, Brigand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Henry Morgan Posted February 8, 2015 Author Share Posted February 8, 2015 If battles take a similar amount of time as they do in combat testing (which they should), so say 15-30 minutes for a small fight or medium fight. How far could a trader get within that time, and why would it even matter if it takes longer for that trader (A-B-C route on the bottom of the map) to get to the port than it takes for the battle to be over? Let alone for other ships to leave that port and sail to said battle. If you are a proponent of no fast travel it makes it all kind of redundant. Fast travel is absolutly necesary. Theres no way around. May gave the wrong impression in my text. That was not mentioned. Im not sure if those 15-30 min are accurate. thought they could last for houers until they reached each other. 12 nautic miles are a long distance between seeing a ship and get there even worse if one faction is fleeing. So i guess its ok... I mean its a game. It has to be tweaked somewhere... But realistcaly your right i guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Henry Morgan Posted February 8, 2015 Author Share Posted February 8, 2015 The idea is a nice one, it somewhat models the fact that information travelled far more slowly in the age of sail. I think this can work, even in a world where instant communications such as team speak and chat are available at the same time. Because of chat, when, for example, an exploration player gets attacked by some other player gone pirate, the explorers clan mates will know when it happens and of course they can try to send help, etc. Yet, the act of piracy itself is not communicated inside the game world, before the explorer (or any law abiding ship they met after the encounter; information spreads like an virus, 'contaminating' everyone it touches) sails into a port. Only when the information reaches port, the authorities will put up a "wanted: dead or alive" notice on the harbour masters office. I think that it should be quite interesting to have a system like this... it would offer interesting gameplay possibilities such as leaving no man alive after a battle? what if some sailor survived anyhow? Cheers, Brigand You got it Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legioneod Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 good ideas but i hope the traveling is in real time and not in a map like mode. i think everything should be done in real time and in a fisrt person mode like in the arena. -battles: shouldnt be instances instead they should happen in the world and anyone sailing by could see them off in the distance and go and join them if they wanted. or they could turn and run so they wouldbt get caught up in the battle. -map. i dont think anything that is happening should be shown on the map. the map should only be used o plot course and mark landmarks and such. -bypass pvp: the way you would do this is simply sailing around the battle or turning away. -missions: missions and quest should be created by the player. (example: a player needs an escort so he post a job in a job window or something and whoever wants to accept the job can take it.) and this goes for anything. -pirates: pirates should be able to attack anything whenever they want. im not saying they wouldnt face consequences for there actions because the attacked player could just put a bounty or a mission up for someone to hunt the pirate who attacked him. -lonewolves: if you want to be a lone wolf be one theres nothing stoping you. if u want to attack a neutral vessal you could risk being attacked by its friend but you could always get away if u plan it right. -greatfleets: if you and your friends want to build a fleet go ahead. its gonna take time a resouces but if you want to do you should be able to. -quest: i believe there should be some kind of starter and ai given quest so the newer player can get started. but after that the player should be able to make his own story and quest and offer quest aswell. -ports: ports should be live and active, a place for trade and refitting and for safer player interaction. it shouldnt be a whole new map but part of the world so theres no loading involved. ports should also be seperated by nation so if your nation is at war with another you cant use the enemys ports safely. ports should also be relativly safe but they should be able to be attacked and taken over. -weather: weather should be dynamic. storms should vary in strength and should b able to happen at anytime anywhere. there should also be wind change and varying speeds. -teamspeak: anyone should be able to use it if they want to. -waters: there should be international and national waters. national waters keep you safer from pirates and the like but arnt a safezone you can still be attacked but you are closer to help. international waters arnt controled by anyone so they are more dangerous pirates are gonna be ore frequent here so it would be safer to travel in groups. also if you enter into enemy national waters you would become a target for enemy players. -travel: all travel should be done in real time and in a real time view. not in a top down map view. -the world: the world should be one big server seperated into regions kinda like eve. the carribean could be one east coeats another etc etc. that way everyone can meat evryone and noone is seperated by there countrys region or server. -things to do in port: refit your ship and buy supplies,store items in storage and moore unused ships at dock. sell items and ships. maybe even open up a buisness. -playstyles: you should be able to play how u want but here are a few i can think of.navy, pirate, merchant, bounty hunter, privateer, etc etc my main point is that the world should feel alive and random. not scripted and sperated. everything should happen in real time in the same world including battles. edit: also battles shouldnt have time limits in open world. edit: also when i say real time i mean in game time not real 24hr cycles. the world will most likely be scaled down and so will the days and nights to match. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Henry Morgan Posted February 8, 2015 Author Share Posted February 8, 2015 I know your wishes Legioneod. Ok. If you wish... From Santo Domingo to Caracas in a driect way is around 524 NM. We asume that you have moderate to good wind. So lets say you sail with a average of 8 knots. This travel takes you 2.8 days to do that. Dou you realy wanna do this? Thats boring... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legioneod Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 the world would be scaled down of course. so i still want real time. no fast travel also day and night wouldnt be in real time it would be quicker imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Henry Morgan Posted February 8, 2015 Author Share Posted February 8, 2015 the world would be scaled down of course. so i still want real time. no fast travel also day and night wouldnt be in real time it would be quicker imo Ok now it makes sens for me. If well done i think it could be great to. And it would also fit with my idea. So why not... There many different concepts i think would work well. Its more a matter of how it gets done and taste. But when playing NA this concerns are flown away Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legioneod Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 the main thing that i dont want is a top down or map view while traveling. i want it to be as it is in game now but open world. id only use the map for charting and reference but i would do my traveling in real time like the game is now. but either way the game will be fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johny Reb Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 Very nice post and good job thinking out of the box. I'm still evaluating it overall. Here are my concerns about the useful workability of the big picture. Teamspeak - already talked about by you and others Travel time - Flip said something about this. I'm afraid that the map would be cluttered by useless positions of battles and fleets that have long since gone since the information was shared. It seems like that information would more likely be wrong then right. If you pass a battle on the OS then chances are that the battle has been going on for a few minutes at least. It takes you another 5 or ten minutes to get to your destination. The information is given and some guys choose to head to the fight which takes them 5 or ten minutes. In that time the fight ended and the victor has sailed away. If that happened to often then I would probably just ignore the map. It could also have exploit potential. Two pirates attack each other near a bottle neck which will coerce traders to take a route that funnels them to their buddies. Where it could have potential would be ship to ship communication. Hail a ship on the OS and receive information about the battle he just passed allowing you to adjust your course to avoid. This would be much more useful than 20 minute old information gleaned from a port you just arrived at. The game world is just to dynamic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Feathersword Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 I really like the OP. I hope they use a similar method for trade prices in different ports. The further away the port the longer it takes for the trade information to reach the town. A system like this would be good game play and enable events, missions and other game play elements. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Henry Morgan Posted February 9, 2015 Author Share Posted February 9, 2015 Thanks Guys for all your replies and critics. Ill try to constantly complete the concept with your great ideas. And trying to sort out your concerns as well... Cheers Sir Henry Morgan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Henry Morgan Posted February 13, 2015 Author Share Posted February 13, 2015 Hey Guys as my OP is pulled out of the first page ill try to give it another chance. I realy wana know what you guys think about this idea. Strange thing! Somebody has changed the title of my Topic. Who made this? Anyway the title is now better, so thank you stranger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Henry Morgan Posted March 31, 2016 Author Share Posted March 31, 2016 Hey Guys now that NA is on steam and membership grows i give it another shot. I know there are some decissions already made in stone. But right now i see no reason that some of my ideas wouldnt fit i the existing map. Actually the existing map is perfect for this system and some of my thoughts are allready "kind of" in there. One thing that i dont like in the existing open world is the fact, that you can spot other ships and battles far to easy. Which means that there is allways the dice rolling when you go for a prise... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerome Posted May 2, 2016 Share Posted May 2, 2016 This game has a huge open world. It seems there are three types of areas. Contested areas RVR where ports are flipping, home waters, and empty back waters. Hunters seem to gravitate toward home waters of their enemies, econ tends to flee to backwater. I propose a way of seeing hot spots and ports around the map bases on player activity. That way the game becomes more interactive as players seek advantages in where they base, either to seek or avoid contact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyu Posted May 2, 2016 Share Posted May 2, 2016 A sort of heatmap you mean? It might make it too easy for people to find hot-spots, I think there should be some recon involved. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peluso Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 It is very interesting, It would be good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerome Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 Yes, a hot spot map. I disagree with the recon idea. Open world sailing to find other player hot spots can take real time days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyu Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 Yeah, that may be my inner-eve showing, stopping at every port to collect data would certainly be too tedious. Maybe something can be done with those old ship report letters? Yes, a hot spot map. I disagree with the recon idea. Open world sailing to find other player hot spots can take real time days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barberouge Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 Merged the new topic with the old one, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikawa Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 I like this idea very much. It's close to my proposal for signaling information of battles to other players. But as OW travel does take much time, one might reach the port to transfer the information too late. A battle might be long over when the information is passed. How can we deal with this? I don't know yet, should we have AI courier boats which can bring the information fast to the nearest port? I would love to know better what is currently ongoing on OW without being reliant to the nation chat ... Considering the time you need to travel over OW this feature might give you a better overview where the most rewarding places are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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