Weak nations need to group together and consider abandoning the one they are in now.

[Kawazz]

In the Title... 

Quote

Weak nations need to group together and consider abandoning the one they are in now.

I've seen too many posts about how the pirates outnumber everyone, well your the ones that have chosen to stay apart and not work together. Alliances won't solve the problem but another large clan in one nation could. Pick one nation and work together and you'll enjoy the game, but staying as you are now, split between clans with different cultures and viewpoints will never work. It needs to be a community not a collective. 

[Bach]

Um....just throwing this out there. But wouldn't it be similarly effective if some of the pirate clans migrated to other teams?  Seriously, if you know how the pirate team camps a nation, builds RvR ships and organizes for port battles then wouldn't it be more effective to spread that around into other nations to build competitive Teams?  There was a whole other thread that started about dividing up the talent on the server into more competitive teams.

Edited August 17, 2017 by Bach

[Hodo]

How about those who want to RVR go to nations and those who just want to PVP go Pirate.

This means BLACK goes to a nation, PURGE goes Pirate.   

Problem solved.

[Kawazz]

16 minutes ago, Hodo said:

How about those who want to RVR go to nations and those who just want to PVP go Pirate.

This means BLACK goes to a nation, PURGE goes Pirate.   

Problem solved.

How about the pirates all quit and you have no one to fight. /s

Your logic is so flawed.

Edited August 17, 2017 by koiz

[Kawazz]

21 minutes ago, Bach said:

Um....just throwing this out there. But wouldn't it be similarly effective if some of the pirate clans migrated to other teams?  Seriously, if you know how the pirate team camps a nation, builds RvR ships and organizes for port battles then wouldn't it be more effective to spread that around into other nations to build competitive Teams?  There was a whole other thread that started about dividing up the talent on the server into more competitive teams.

Working together is more valuable than talent. You don't try and break up the one nation that's working... you try to fix or make one that does work. 

[Koltes]

27 minutes ago, Bach said:

Um....just throwing this out there. But wouldn't it be similarly effective if some of the pirate clans migrated to other teams?  Seriously, if you know how the pirate team camps a nation, builds RvR ships and organizes for port battles then wouldn't it be more effective to spread that around into other nations to build competitive Teams?  There was a whole other thread that started about dividing up the talent on the server into more competitive teams.

You didnt get it. @koiz is fine. Why should he change, switch do whatever for anybody? He is merely suggesting a sensible  thing that If your nation struggles to stay organised, provide players, give you community content then there is an option to unite in one clan under the same flag.

Your first response is my game suck, so you pirates have to do something about it.

Lmao

Edited August 17, 2017 by koltes

[Koltes]

7 minutes ago, koiz said:

How about the pirates all quit and you have no one to fight. /s

Your logic is so flawed.

Dont mind Hodo mate. He is a random fire mode in NA. No one takes that shit seriously 

[Bach]

4 minutes ago, koiz said:

Working together is more valuable than talent. You don't try and break up the one nation that's working... you try to fix or make one that does work. 

I'm not entirely in agreement that what you have is actually "working" as far as the server as a whole goes. It will win port battles but it's not really competitive or worth much otherwise.  Also, working together only supersedes talent in events that do not have limited numbers. When your limit is 25v25 then talent is going to win most everytime.  

If you want solid competitive RvR then you need to build equal teams.  What your suggesting is slaughtering lambs until they manage to amass talent on their own. Sounds good for you but not so much for the lambs.

[Raekur]

If you recall banding together was kinda already done when alliances were possible. US and Britain formed an alliance to fight the pirates and the pirates bitched like crazy saying that the US and Britain should be fighting each other instead of working together against the pirates. SO, now alliances are gone and now with limited ship slots the ability for nations to work together is pretty close to zip. This now resulted in the pirates controlling the game and the current state is that there is very little action in the game and the population when I log in is always less than 80. Infighting within nations caused many players to migrate to pirate and there has been very little incentive for any pirate player to switch back. Pirates have more options available to them then nation players do so why would anyone want to switch back. Unless the pirates get seriously chopped down to 5th rates and limited production of ship building I doubt anyone will switch from pirate to nation. It would not make sense to switch from a position of strength to one of near nothing and increased drama of trying to get the various clans withing a nation to actually put their ego's aside and work together.  Too many times have i see the attitude of 'it's my way or no way' and 'if your ship is not build to these exact specifications you can not enter this port battle' along with the wonderful situation where a couple clans get together to defend a port, things go a little sideways and the first damn thing that happens is people start looking for who to blame instead of analyzing what the other side did and accept the fact that MAYBE they just happen to have done a better job of managing their fleet instead of rushing in and acting like it was a bar room brawl. 

So, suggesting that pirates switch to nation will not happen as there is no reason for the pirates to willfully walk into putting up with the grief of some of the nation leaders. I have met some clan leaders in the nations that are spot on good leaders and I have met some who need to leave the dictatorship crap at the door.

Want to fix the issues with the nations, get clan leaders together who WANT to actually work as a team and those that do not want to work should switch to another nation. Have a few nations that are serious about working together and providing content and have a few small nations that want to just be raiders and harass anything that is floating. Doing this will yield a couple of nations to fight each other and the pirates as well as a few small nations that will pride themselves on being a pain in the ass to everyone.

[Bach]

5 minutes ago, koltes said:

You didnt get it. @koiz is fine. Why should he change, switch do whatever for anybody? He is merely suggesting a sensible  thing that If your nation struggles to stay organised, provide players, give you community content then there is an option to unite in one clan under the same flag.

Your first response is my game suck, so you pirates have to do something about it.

Lmao

I got it just fine. I simply don't think it will accomplish anything worth while beyond feeding you more targets for awhile. If you want competition then you need to figure a way to spread the sports talent into other teams. But I don't think competition is what you were ever really looking for anyway.

No one cares about Olympic basketball since the USA was allowed to field an entire team of pro players.  Its simply not worth watching.

[Kawazz]

3 minutes ago, Bach said:

I got it just fine. I simply don't think it will accomplish anything worth while beyond feeding you more targets for awhile. If you want competition then you need to figure a way to spread the sports talent into other teams. But I don't think competition is what you were ever really looking for anyway.

No one cares about Olympic basketball since the USA was allowed to field an entire team of pro players.  Its simply not worth watching.

So you wouldn't model a new clan after one that works together, crafts together and gets over their disagreements to  make sure they have the best chance at victory?

Quote

No one cares about Olympic basketball since the USA was allowed to field an entire team of pro players.  Its simply not worth watching.

Tell that to Spain....

The situation Olympic basketball is in cannot be compared to this game. The best in the world are Americans they have no other choice but to play for their REAL nation.

This is a game you have a choice to leave dysfunctional nations to build better ones.

[JobaSet]

1 hour ago, koiz said:

In the Title... 

I've seen too many posts about how the pirates outnumber everyone, well your the ones that have chosen to stay apart and not work together. Alliances won't solve the problem but another large clan in one nation could. Pick one nation and work together and you'll enjoy the game, but staying as you are now, split between clans with different cultures and viewpoints will never work. It needs to be a community not a collective. 

Pirates don't even come close to out numbering nations.  Want to know the Problem here it is.  We put in the Work to be the best.  Then wait for Nation to complain TO nerf something else.  I fully expect the Slot XP or upgrades to be nerf yet again! with in a week or two now. Now that most, of us pirates, are now 5 slot 4 rates rdy , and 5 slot 6th rates rdy(swollow).

24 minutes ago, koltes said:

Dont mind Hodo mate. He is a random fire mode in NA. No one takes that shit seriously 

Yea Hodo is harmless.  But true fact if you put 3 others on ignore The forums are bearable cut out the 90% of bullshit.  Everyone knows who they are.

PS Side note I not got to worry about them seeing my post either lol.

Edited August 17, 2017 by JobaSet

[Christendom]

game needs more players.  period.

[Koltes]

4 minutes ago, Christendom said:

game needs more players.  period.

Yup

[IndianaGeoff]

In one post BLACK demands that one nation fight another.  In the next post they tell them to band together.  Later they tell clans to quit or be hunted down over some petty, old grievance.

It just never ends.

140 last night.  Tonight, 130?  Or maybe Monday.

[JobaSet]

Just now, IndianaGeoff said:

In one post BLACK demands that one nation fight another.  In the next post they tell them to band together.  Later they tell clans to quit or be hunted down over some petty, old grievance.

It just never ends.

140 last night.  Tonight, 130?  Or maybe Monday.

Black is not the problem if everyone is on.  Make up 20-25 people.  Just saying when I post this at 615 est only 3 online atm.

[Kawazz]

35 minutes ago, IndianaGeoff said:

In one post BLACK demands that one nation fight another.  In the next post they tell them to band together.  Later they tell clans to quit or be hunted down over some petty, old grievance.

It just never ends.

140 last night.  Tonight, 130?  Or maybe Monday.

When did I join black?

Your as bad as Hodo lol

[Dharus]

38 minutes ago, koiz said:

When did I join black?

Your as bad as Hodo lol

The curious thing about the pirates... you can fight each other too.  You guys are running together with Black to beat on the US.  Here is an idea.  Fight each other!

Edited August 17, 2017 by Dharus

[JobaSet]

15 minutes ago, Dharus said:

The curious thing about the pirates... you can fight each other too.  You guys are running together with Black to beat on the US.  Here is an idea.  Fight each other! We Do all the time...

Even better Some US player are running with the Pirates. Attacking Brits.  US are so much better at PVP than the Brits it not even funny.  They have to log in US Atls Just so they can Tag Pirates then join the US SIDE to keep the Friendly US out of battle,  the few US running with pirates can't help(Green On Green).  They are more scared of US than of Pirates ATM.

I see very soon Nation on Nation, and All PVP being everyone red.   

Edited August 17, 2017 by JobaSet

[Teutonic]

2 hours ago, koiz said:

In the Title... 

I've seen too many posts about how the pirates outnumber everyone, well your the ones that have chosen to stay apart and not work together. Alliances won't solve the problem but another large clan in one nation could. Pick one nation and work together and you'll enjoy the game, but staying as you are now, split between clans with different cultures and viewpoints will never work. It needs to be a community not a collective. 

 

That's funny. There is a reason that people are in different clans and have different cultures. It's because they work well together within and they then can work with others or decide to work on their own.

Telling nations to work together is like Asking you and your group koiz to work with the US - oh but yeah, that didn't work and instead you decided to leave and join a  different nation. Honestly there is nothing wrong with switching nations, but it's funny coming from a guy who couldn't work with the other groups to suggest to the rest of us to work with those same groups.

France is a motley crew of different groups, but if you believe we don't work together then you don't really understand how we operate. We have a loose agreement with each other to do "this and that" and when we want to create bigger things or events we discuss on it and take action. It's how we went and fought the Brits at Santa Marta and how we fought the Pirates at La Tortue.

Nah man, we are fine thanks.

Edited August 17, 2017 by Teutonic

[Kawazz]

9 minutes ago, Teutonic said:

 

That's funny. There is a reason that people are in different clans and have different cultures. It's because they work well together within and they then can work with others or decide to work on their own.

Not always true, some people think they are dictators... ala Lionshaft and don't put in the time to actually lead their clans which ruins the nation for everyone else.

 

Quote

Telling nations to work together is like Asking you and your group koiz to work with the US - oh but yeah, that didn't work and instead you decided to leave and join a  different nation. Honestly there is nothing wrong with switching nations, but it's funny coming from a guy who couldn't work with the other groups to suggest to the rest of us to work with those same groups.

I left because they did not want to work together and Daniel Silver became their defacto leader.  Daniel Silver, The Brit alt that brokered the "alliance" then disappeared.

But yes... Go on about how I was the problem. I lead the nation before the wipe and lead in the alliance. Funny how that was the last time the USA and Brits could win a battle.

 

Edited August 17, 2017 by koiz

[Bach]

Back to the OP

Its simply not a very attractive idea. I'm assuming the suggestion here is that we all hop to Britain or the like, level up 5 slot first rates and then RvR.  We would lose any friends we brought into the game recently that didn't have forged papers. Yes they exist. Then we either let go of the build up clan WH stocks or haul a ton of crap somewhere. Then we have to grind missions for a solid month to get 1st rates skilled up. Then another half month for 4th rates. All the while building up some strategic leadership and training port battle line tactics in big heavy ships.

I'm more on your side than most and you couldn't get me to do all that. 😮

[Koltes]

1 hour ago, Dharus said:

The curious thing about the pirates... you can fight each other too.  You guys are running together with Black to beat on the US.  Here is an idea.  Fight each other!

Here is another idea. Quit talking to pirates. Play your game and try to win by getting batter. Without ANY dialog with pirates. Can you do that?

 

19 minutes ago, Bach said:

Back to the OP

Its simply not a very attractive idea. I'm assuming the suggestion here is that we all hop to Britain or the like, level up 5 slot first rates and then RvR.  We would lose any friends we brought into the game recently that didn't have forged papers. Yes they exist. Then we either let go of the build up clan WH stocks or haul a ton of crap somewhere. Then we have to grind missions for a solid month to get 1st rates skilled up. Then another half month for 4th rates. All the while building up some strategic leadership and training port battle line tactics in big heavy ships.

I'm more on your side than most and you couldn't get me to do all that. 😮

I can understand that mate. Its all good.

Being in France you are no spoiled with numbers so its harder for you.

I have had similar suggestions to GB or US (not across the nations). They have the numbers just lack organisation. Making one clan that is specifically RvR and PvP oriented and unite one nation in that clan of players of same interest might go long way. This is what we have done in BLACK. Its not a quick solution by any means, but its the move in right direction. Problem is that clan needs to have a strong leader who looks after his people, has respect and known for being a decent person and who can also fight well

Edited August 18, 2017 by koltes

[Christendom]

It amuses me that people think Daniel Silver was a brit alt.

[Sir Texas Sir]

5 hours ago, koiz said:

How about the pirates all quit and you have no one to fight. /s

Your logic is so flawed.

Are go Spain like we constantly joke about.  Most of us all got an alt we could roll one nation and it would do no diffrent.  Than it will be Spain dots all over the map instead.  I bet we can do it from one port too.  It's not like we didn't do it as pirates when we where one ported or down to 2 regions (pre-patch).

5 hours ago, Bach said:

I'm not entirely in agreement that what you have is actually "working" as far as the server as a whole goes. It will win port battles but it's not really competitive or worth much otherwise.  Also, working together only supersedes talent in events that do not have limited numbers. When your limit is 25v25 then talent is going to win most everytime.  

If you want solid competitive RvR then you need to build equal teams.  What your suggesting is slaughtering lambs until they manage to amass talent on their own. Sounds good for you but not so much for the lambs.

Numbers don't mean anything if your not organized.  Look at Pre-Patch PvP2.  US/GB/Dutch had an alliance and we where still able to bring US down to 11 ports before it started and this was after US 1 ported us.   Than we brought Brits to one 1 port, it was the attitude of the GB/US/Dutch to not fight us even though they had plenty of numbers.  Why fight when you can just use your alliances ports right?  That is the problem with most these guys that cry about loosing ports.  They love to show up when it's 25 vs 0-15 but as soon as the numbers become more like 25 vs 20-25 they stop showing up and trying.   If you look at most of our port battles we only had 20-25 in them with hardly any screeners to help.   I'll let folks on a little secret about GT/SLM port battles.  That wasn't two fleets and even GT we didn't have a full 25 in there and we still won and most of the guys in SLM that wasn't there at the start where guys that rushed over from GT when it was done or telported cause they had ships in that port ready.  I do not joke when In the past I said they are only fighting 15-20 guys or now it's more like 20-25. Yah we have had over 30 something online a few times, but that isn't the norm, it's on average 15-20 guys.   When we 1 ported Brits pre-patch I was fighting many nights two port battles at once with a char in each one.   So not only where they fighting smaller numebers they where fighting guys playing two chars or in more than one fight at once.

5 hours ago, Raekur said:

If you recall banding together was kinda already done when alliances were possible. US and Britain formed an alliance to fight the pirates and the pirates bitched like crazy saying that the US and Britain should be fighting each other instead of working together against the pirates. SO, now alliances are gone and now with limited ship slots the ability for nations to work together is pretty close to zip. This now resulted in the pirates controlling the game and the current state is that there is very little action in the game and the population when I log in is always less than 80. Infighting within nations caused many players to migrate to pirate and there has been very little incentive for any pirate player to switch back. Pirates have more options available to them then nation players do so why would anyone want to switch back. Unless the pirates get seriously chopped down to 5th rates and limited production of ship building I doubt anyone will switch from pirate to nation. It would not make sense to switch from a position of strength to one of near nothing and increased drama of trying to get the various clans withing a nation to actually put their ego's aside and work together.  Too many times have i see the attitude of 'it's my way or no way' and 'if your ship is not build to these exact specifications you can not enter this port battle' along with the wonderful situation where a couple clans get together to defend a port, things go a little sideways and the first damn thing that happens is people start looking for who to blame instead of analyzing what the other side did and accept the fact that MAYBE they just happen to have done a better job of managing their fleet instead of rushing in and acting like it was a bar room brawl. 

So, suggesting that pirates switch to nation will not happen as there is no reason for the pirates to willfully walk into putting up with the grief of some of the nation leaders. I have met some clan leaders in the nations that are spot on good leaders and I have met some who need to leave the dictatorship crap at the door.

Want to fix the issues with the nations, get clan leaders together who WANT to actually work as a team and those that do not want to work should switch to another nation. Have a few nations that are serious about working together and providing content and have a few small nations that want to just be raiders and harass anything that is floating. Doing this will yield a couple of nations to fight each other and the pirates as well as a few small nations that will pride themselves on being a pain in the ass to everyone.

I know we clash on views a lot but I have to say I have to agree with many things you say here, but remember that US/GB alliance still didn't stop GB from being 1 ported.   The reason I say ya'll should fight each other is to get experience and to get organized against another group that is the same skill level and organization as your own nation.  It's not cause we want to watch the world burn, ok maybe watch both nation burn is what some wants, but not myself.   I got better fighting folks not sitting in port complaining or avoiding fights.  Right now both nations needs fights they can win and they need moral boost.  Loosing over and over is not working for them doing the same thing over and over.  It's time for some change. I been saying this for over a year since I left US.  

Tell me exactly what pirates have that Nationals don't other than FFA fights?  I would like to know this magic skills/powers we have that ya'll don't have?  Other than organization skills and team work?  So stop seeing us as "PIRATES IN TRADITIONAL TERMS."  

WE ARE A NATION AND YOU HAVE TO GET OVER THAT MIND SET THAT WE AREN'T.   

But the rest I agree with you about organization and team work and stop listening to leaders that aren't helping the nation.  I bet you US and GB set up a few battles and let US expand a bit and than pick one region to fight over you will see an increase in numbers of players on both sides. One of the reason folks stop playing when I ask them and they are in US and GB is cause they get bored cause no one is fighting each other and we can't beat the pirates.   Well that means you need to pick another target and not some small nation that can't fill a port battle.  

5 hours ago, IndianaGeoff said:

In one post BLACK demands that one nation fight another.  In the next post they tell them to band together.  Later they tell clans to quit or be hunted down over some petty, old grievance.

It just never ends.

140 last night.  Tonight, 130?  Or maybe Monday.

It was never a demad, it's a suggestion, just like our intentions post wasn't demands it's just a post about our intentions and I though we where being very reasonable by allowing US to spread into the GULF with our help if they wanted it, but ya'll can't swallow your pride for two seconds and listen to folks that are getting stuff done and been down to one port/Region and bounced back many a times.  We didn't do that by sitting in ports ignoring the problems and not fighting.  Geoff can I ask you exactly why you as a player that is over a year and half old (3/3/2016 born date I think) is not maxed out rank yet?   I notice a lot of you very vocal NPG guys and other US are not maxed out ranked or just recently before the patched maxed out?   Maybe cause your sitting around with your thumb up your arse and not fighting?   Dead In the Red my other alt (yes that is me for those that didn't know) ranked up completely through PvP from when he was Spanish (first 3-4 ranks) to Curse.  I did have to grind out half the last level through missions though to speed it up.  My third char (former Dane that is now a pirate crafter) is Flag Captain level.  All three are level 50 crafters.  I did them all legit in game.  Yah I got a billioni hours, but my points is you get good and I'm not even that good at this game by playing the game.

So point is maybe stop listening to the guys that aren't getting stuff down and take advice from others that have got stuff done.

3 hours ago, koiz said:

Not always true, some people think they are dictators... ala Lionshaft and don't put in the time to actually lead their clans which ruins the nation for everyone else.

 

I left because they did not want to work together and Daniel Silver became their defacto leader.  Daniel Silver, The Brit alt that brokered the "alliance" then disappeared.

But yes... Go on about how I was the problem. I lead the nation before the wipe and lead in the alliance. Funny how that was the last time the USA and Brits could win a battle.

 

Part of the problem is they won't listen to out side advice or others that might lead them better.  If it's not working than try something new.  When I say things they should do I saw it as a player wanting to see them do better not as a BLACK clan member Pirate trying to boss them around.  

2 hours ago, Christendom said:

It amuses me that people think Daniel Silver was a brit alt.

Alt or not it's funny how this great leader shows up, runs a port battle or two, gets destroyed and than is no where to be found.  We have never seen him in the OW.  Maybe the problem was they let some unknown come and lead them when I'm sure they have a few guys in Nation that can actually do the job if folks let them.  US biggest problem is NPG to be honest and Loinshaft.  They need to stop following them and stop doing the same old crap over and over that doesn't work.  They need to try something new and not listen to the same old vets that keep the nation down.  He and others where the same guys around when I left. There is a reason why guys like that never leave.  To be honest we think he set that new clan up at West End as I was on twitch when they ran it up watching Appolo's stream while doing some work.  The stuff he was telling them was leading them to some great victory/fight, but instead it was leading them to a slaughter he didn't even show up to lead.  There was zero communication with our clan or any other pirates about that.  If they wanted to set something up and came and talked to us we could arranged something that wasn't a once sided slaughter, but the suprise attack/flip during an off prime time means a fight to us.  If they had contacted us we could of arranged to have the smaller clans come in and fight with them or just do a big brawl out side or something. Hell if they can keep there grubby hands off the rest of Bahamas I wouldn't mind (and this me speaking not my clan) giving them West End for light ship fighting and traders in that area, but every time we give them part of the Bahamas they try to take it all.

@Christendom A while back I saw a screen shot of something you said in Nation chat.  Wish I could find it but didn't save it from who ever posted it but goes something like this and it sums up the problems with US and GB.   Forgive me if I get it slightly wrong, "We tried to flip 2/3 ports tonight and end up loosing 2 other ports instead."   It was actually a very smart move to try that, but not at that time and not with the ports you picked.  Part of the problems is US tries the same ports over and over that we have defense set up.  Not really sure what happens with the GB flip group as it was very little points gained if I remember that eve.  So instead we went and flipped and took two regions that weekend our selves.  I think the problem with mainly US and we will add GB in this is they do things, but when they do them they try to big.  They need to take the baby steps in between.  Start with some off the way port that isn't heavily defended.  Do some test runs.  That is why I suggest US take some Gulf ports.  Does GB really need those extra regions right now?  It would give the US some safe zone to grow in and build, but the battles can still be contested to let both sides get some experience.  Than do like ya'll talk about and meet in the middle and fight over one region to get both sides trained up and with more experience.  Is this really that unreasable of a suggestion to help out two nations?