Premium Club and Account Upgrades

[Alex Connor]

And yes stuff does cross that line of yours of yours. "Premium members get much larger society access, Economy labor bonus, Sell xp boosters, reputation boosters, gold find boosters etc." That's what I call pay to win.

Don't like the larger society access, and I'd roll up the rest into the bonus for having a premium account, but its not pay to win to me.

 

This is a PvP game, and winning is when you go out and kill the enemy. Someone being able to level up faster or earn more ingame currency does not affect this.

 

A premium currency gives off all the wrong signals. There's a very large amount of gamers who don't like it. Mostly the older generation of gamers. Or the poor uni students. Better off just buying extra stuff then and there instead of having this premium currency. It also cuts out the middle man when you want to buy something.

Possibly this is true, but look at the success of World of Tanks and the number of games released since that borrow its currency system.

 

And like Mirones said, there is a distinct advantage in using a premium currency over direct purchase only (especially if tradeable), because with direct purchase someone will only spend money on the premium items they want for themselves. However, given the chance to trade the premium currency for ingame wealth they will do so, providing more income for game labs and offering players who don't want to spend real money a chance to get their hands on the premium content.

[Simfex]

the HMS Surprise from the film "Master and commander"!!!

[Lemonater47]

In case you haven't noticed world of tanks is free to play. Though I find warthunder better as its no where a near as grindy feeling.

This game won't be free to play last I checked. Seeing free to play elements in a game you buy really suggests "money sink" to potential buyers.

And you can always just directly buy in game cash GTA V style. Rather than having a premium currency. Same thing but without the bad image that comes with it.

[Mirones]

 

 

the HMS Surprise from the film "Master and commander"!!!

[caldrin]

please no micro transactions..

Have a box price and then a sub to support the servers and more development if the game is good people will pay it...

[Brigand]

The problem with premium content (be it 'cosmetic only' or 'pay to win') is this:

 

Development effort tends to go where the money comes from. This is not something that is unique to game development, rather the contrary: even if you love the work you are doing, you'll need the income to continue doing it, so you better focus on that which produces income.

 

In a Premium based sales model, the money comes from the 'extras'. This inherently makes the 'extras' a first-class citizen; the development studio needs to (continue to) produce 'extras' to ensure their continued revenue stream. In this sales model, the core gameplay will always have to compete with the 'extras' for development time.

(This is even more true for the 'Freemium' based sales model, where all the revenue is generated through 'extras').

 

In a subscription based (or even a 'box price') sales model, people pay money for the core gameplay. Because of this, there is a financial incentive for the development studio for the continued improvement of the core gameplay; the lack of Premium content ensures that the core gameplay becomes the most important aspect of development, because it is the means to generate revenue.

 

I like to play a game where the core gameplay gets maximum attention and the effort is focused on making the game the best it can be. I will happily pay, and continue to pay, for a game that offers good gameplay, even more so if I can see the gameplay improve over time.

 

~Brigand.

[Ink]

I think there are three chooses:

1) Eve-like paid system - that means the game is free to download, you don't have to pay for the new content (unlike world of warcaft), you just pay a sub with ability to aesthetic micro transaction aswell. Also there is a possibility to pay a sub thru ingame currency - a person who needs ingame curency buy a special code from the official site, then a person who wants to pay a sub thru the ingame currency buy that code),

2) You have to pay once you buy the game, then there is a possibility to aesthetic micro transaction aswell. You also have to pay for the major new content (something global, like world of warcraft new addons)

3) League of Legend system. The game is free-to-play, aesthetic micro transaction and some expirience boost pay included, but there is no pay-to-win things, everything can be achivied both ways

 

for me, the best chooses are #1 and #2, since I think #3 requires really huge fan base

[Alex Connor]

The problem with premium content (be it 'cosmetic only' or 'pay to win') is this:

 

Development effort tends to go where the money comes from. This is not something that is unique to game development, rather the contrary: even if you love the work you are doing, you'll need the income to continue doing it, so you better focus on that which produces income.

 

In a Premium based sales model, the money comes from the 'extras'. This inherently makes the 'extras' a first-class citizen; the development studio needs to (continue to) produce 'extras' to ensure their continued revenue stream. In this sales model, the core gameplay will always have to compete with the 'extras' for development time.

(This is even more true for the 'Freemium' based sales model, where all the revenue is generated through 'extras').

 

In a subscription based (or even a 'box price') sales model, people pay money for the core gameplay. Because of this, there is a financial incentive for the development studio for the continued improvement of the core gameplay; the lack of Premium content ensures that the core gameplay becomes the most important aspect of development, because it is the means to generate revenue.

 

I like to play a game where the core gameplay gets maximum attention and the effort is focused on making the game the best it can be. I will happily pay, and continue to pay, for a game that offers good gameplay, even more so if I can see the gameplay improve over time.

 

~Brigand.

 

This is why I feel a premium account system is very important. Sustained income, requires no development after initial setup leaving developers free to concentrate on improving the game. Preferably WoT style (simple 50% bonuses to progression and money earning), with the initial purchase price of the game being one month's premium, and after that you can play for free or keep buying premium.

 

And simple premium content. New paintschemes are 5min work in photoshop/etc when you are the original artist and have the base texture in layers. Everyone starts out with their national color scheme or something and can buy new ones for gold (cheap) or silver (expensive). Same for flags (realistic flags are simple to make). Name changes are only a matter of setting up a system once and adding an area to each ships stern that displays letters.

 

Ship and item recipes, good because they are an integral part of adding new content. Again, cheap to buy with gold, expensive with silver.

 

All this adds up income for NA without unbalancing the game or distracting devs from adding real content. 

[Mirones]

yes but what is the prenium account going to do?

we dont have exp that levels us up we might end up with a system similar to Guns of Icarus Online where you rank up by doing achievments.

that can be for rank 1 destroy 5 enemy ships+sucesfully escort a convoy.

in this system there would be no need for an prenium account that givs you +30% XP for crew yes maybe but if that is really needed if you are winning your engagements all the time

 

oh and Gold > Silver  

[Alex Connor]

There has to be some system for earning new ships, so just 50% bonus to this, details are not important 

 

And yes Gold > Silver, I meant, if you purchase with gold these items are cheap, but to purchase with silver will cost you much more 

[Lurken]

skins, clothing and such stuff i agree to. pay to win is always killing the game.

[MrPiggi]

Why are people so adverse to the idea of premium currency? I think it's a great idea to be able for people to "sell" premium currency ingame for the standard currency (if there were a premium market for cosmetics/extras/exp boosts). There are people who have money to spend but not time, so they buy the extra bonuses and sell premium "gems" on the market to get the gold they don't have time to farm. The other people who don't have money but have more time, can sell their gold for these gems and still have access to the same "premium" stuff the rich kids are using.

 

I'm not against a subscription - I would happily pay one for such a unique game; however, we are very, very far from the point of completion of this game. No one would pay a subscription fee for a WoT-esque game of just battles until it becomes an MMO (something we're still not close to). Until then, I would like to see a WoT-esque game whilst they work their way up to an MMO where we just use matchmaking/servers to go into battles. I'm not sure how it currently works, but having a line of ships to grind down in the meantime would give a sense of progression for players whilst we wait for the good stuff.

 

Also - we have to remember, the market for this kind of game is not as large as we'd like. It's a niche, so the price structure has to be carefully thought out.

[Lemonater47]

Called advertising. I've been spreading the word in the off topic section of many forums.

This game isn't gonna be free to play. Having it so you buy the game but have to pay a subscription to enjoy it ain't a smart idea. And yes no matter how much you sugar coat it it always turns out that way I'm afraid.

Do you want to keep the playerbase small or expand it?

[MrPiggi]

This game isn't gonna be free to play. Having it so you buy the game but have to pay a subscription to enjoy it ain't a smart idea. And yes no matter how much you sugar coat it it always turns out that way I'm afraid.

 

And this is based on what? EVE, which is the only other comparable niche-driven market, is still going incredibly strong with it's player base and subscription base. AND it has a significantly higher monthly fee than the "standard" or expected fee.

 

Saying that a subscription fee will keep the player base small as an argument against it is weak. Not that I'm saying this is the direction the game should take, just pointing out that your argument does not conform.

[PegasusUK]

This game isn't gonna be free to play. Having it so you buy the game but have to pay a subscription to enjoy it ain't a smart idea. And yes no matter how much you sugar coat it it always turns out that way I'm afraid.

Do you want to keep the playerbase small or expand it?

 

Why not buying the game and then paying a sub is not a smart idea? you only have to look at EvE, WoW to see that buying a game and still paying a sub model still makes a game successful, sure over time the sub based might dwindle a little but new regular expansions still draw players like moths to a flame.  WoW is down to around 7 millions subs, EvE still have 40k players daily and they are probably the most expensive mmo right now but people will still pay for it.

 

We see your type of comments all the time on forums when new games come about, with little thought or understanding how a company needs money to stay afloat.

[Lemonater47]

In case you haven't noticed they have a far bugger production budget. A publisher behind them and several hundred staff.

Eve pays for itself mate. I haven't payed a subscription for Eve in ages. I payed for about 2 months. Doesn't take long for you to earn enough plex to play without paying. That's why I started playing eve when I found that out. And I got damn rich in that most expensive battle ever as did many other scavengers.

WOW is also that sort of game that's extremely addicting. ESO is the same. Though that sorta failed as it tried to get elder scrolls fans into the WOW model. Didn't work out very well to begin with for them.

This is an indie company with a new concept. Its a risk making a subscription model. And they don't need to pay 300+ staff 6 figure sale salaries.

Wait and see what happens when this game gets some proper exposure. That's what will need to happen before you decide how you want to sell it.

[MrPiggi]

In case you haven't noticed they have a far bugger production budget. A publisher behind them and several hundred staff.

Eve pays for itself mate. I haven't payed a subscription for Eve in ages. I payed for about 2 months. Doesn't take long for you to earn enough plex to play without paying. That's why I started playing eve when I found that out. And I got damn rich in that most expensive battle ever as did many other scavengers.

WOW is also that sort of game that's extremely addicting. ESO is the same. Though that sorta failed as it tried to get elder scrolls fans into the WOW model. Didn't work out very well to begin with for them.

This is an indie company with a new concept. Its a risk making a subscription model. And they don't need to pay 300+ staff 6 figure sale salaries.

Wait and see what happens when this game gets some proper exposure. That's what will need to happen before you decide how you want to sell it.

 

You've still offered no arguments really. Saying their model works only because they are "big" doesn't show much, Blizzard was well sized from the start but EVE wasn't.

 

Saying a subscription model won't work because you don't think it will or because it's a small company is null.

 

And also, to address your "Eve pays for itself" theory - no, it doesn't. You may have bought PLEX off of another player, but that player bought that PLEX from EVE. So someone has paid* EVE for your month, it just isn't out of your own pocket. It's a very successful system and one I completely back - Wildstar has also introduced it and if NA adopted a subscription based model I'd love for them to look into something similar.

[maturin]

If you're not aware of the mass shift away from the mmo subscription model, and mounds of dead P2P games that have piled up in recent years, you're just not paying attention.

 

Any significant subscription cost is the kiss of death for an mmo that doesn't have vast amounts of cash and corporate support for widespread marketing campaigns and large-scale content updates. And even then they fail, like Knights of the Old Republic.

[Lurken]

Premium Club and Account Upgrades

Do we need it and what should be included for Premium accounts?

 

My suggestions:

 

Create premium one time paid $50 accounts for those who want more control.

 

50$ sounds a bit too much, thats more than a game usually costs, idk, i dont like p2w f2p very much. skins and such stuff is always good, but exp/money/guild bonuses makes it p2w imo

[MrPiggi]

If you're not aware of the mass shift away from the mmo subscription model, and mounds of dead P2P games that have piled up in recent years, you're just not paying attention.

 

Any significant subscription cost is the kiss of death for an mmo that doesn't have vast amounts of cash and corporate support for widespread marketing campaigns and large-scale content updates. And even then they fail, like Knights of the Old Republic.

 

It's shifting away because it's easier to attract a mass audience using the F2P model. That doesn't mean games aren't working with it. WoW and EVE are still going strong, ESO so far as I'm aware is doing alright and Wildstar is doing well but it's only just launched.

 

I'm definitely willing to pay a subscription fee to play a realistic age of sail MMORPG, ESPECIALLY since there is nothing else out there. I still think the GW2 model is the best for a game of this type, but I'm just asserting that subscription isn't a dead option. And because Lemonater kept dismissing it without really saying why other than it's not good.

[MrPiggi]

50$ sounds a bit too much, thats more than a game usually costs, idk, i dont like p2w f2p very much. skins and such stuff is always good, but exp/money/guild bonuses makes it p2w imo

 

exp/money are not pay to win features...they let people progress faster if they don't have a great amount of time to invest. That's not paying to win. That's paying to progress faster. Paying to win is if you put up "Premium" ships for sale that you can only get with real money and they are stronger then usual ships, for example.

 

And $50 is a little absurd. Maybe in it's later, more complete life - but at launch it should definitely not be using a high price. Planetary Annihilation did that (charging at £40 retail, $60 or $70?) and that put off a looooot of people.

[Lemonater47]

In my book that's paying to win.

Plantary annihilation was $99.99 USD on steam when first released lol. It was very quickly lowered to $69.99 which was still massively expensive.

[PegasusUK]

I'm definitely willing to pay a subscription fee to play a realistic age of sail MMORPG

 

Absolutely, I been paying subs since Ultima Online back in 1997 so im used to paying for a service to help the developers keep the servers running and contribute to releasing more content and DLC's.

[MrPiggi]

In my book that's paying to win.

Plantary annihilation was $99.99 USD on steam when first released lol. It was very quickly lowered to $69.99 which was still massively expensive.

 

Then I presume you never spend money on games or micro-transactions, because only people who don't spend money would assert that that is pay to win. It's not pay to win in any shape or form. It's paying to progress, which is very different.

 

And yeah, their pricing strategy was stupidly retarded. They could have had a lot more players and probably a lot more money had they not charged a fortune.

[Lemonater47]

Then I presume you never spend money on games or micro-transactions, because only people who don't spend money would assert that that is pay to win. It's not pay to win in any shape or form. It's paying to progress, which is very different.

 

And yeah, their pricing strategy was stupidly retarded. They could have had a lot more players and probably a lot more money had they not charged a fortune.

You didn't earn it.