Prater Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 So today a Cerberus rammed a Coni. The Coni went to survival. He couldn't repair the leak for several minutes and sunk. New best tactic. Outfit small ships and ram larger ones until they sink. Zerg nations can afford the ships and players to do this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diceman Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 I think ramming is a valid tactic. Just like ganking. Or sailing around in a Zerg herd. Or kiting a SOL to keep it tagged in a small battle when it's trying to get to the important BIG battle. If you can ram a larger ship and cause him to have to go on survival and therefore slow his reload and ship handling abilities. That's good!!! And if he refuses to give that damage the attention that it deserves and shortly after sinks... That's great!! Sometimes desperate situations call for desperate measures. By any means necessary... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathaniel Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 (edited) Yes, agreed, if you think you're going to sink or want to act like a brander and put an enemy ship on fire, sure, but why should a ram cause more damage to the enemy than it causes to yourself? Certainly you shouldn't be allgright after a full speed ram with 20 seconds of pumping. It should be slightly tilted the other way around and then ramming will have it's proper place. Edited January 10, 2016 by Nathaniel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucas Corso Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 (edited) A ship doing a 90 degree ram on a larger ship would certainly lose some or all of her masts. Edited January 10, 2016 by Lucien Delmonte 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diceman Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 Yes, agreed, if you think you're going to sink or want to act like a brander and put an enemy ship on fire, sure, but why should a ram cause more damage to the enemy than it causes to yourself? It should be slightly tilted the other way around and then ramming will have it's proper place. Is there data that supports the statement that ramming causes more damage one way or the other??? The Devs have put so much effort into the damage modeling in this game that I would be pretty confident thinking that there are many factors affecting who gets what level damage in a ram... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucas Corso Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 Is there data that supports the statement that ramming causes more damage one way or the other??? The Devs have put so much effort into the damage modeling in this game that I would be pretty confident thinking that there are many factors affecting who gets what level damage in a ram... There is a lot of historical evidence from the period that deliberate ramming was very rare. This supports the contention that it didn't work ie it damaged the ramming ship more than the rammed one. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akd Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 That doesn't matter. People do this because they lose nothing more than they would lose via any other form of defeat and it keeps their ship from being captured or used to gain damage XP, so just a silly scorched earth approach to losing, or because they have cheap or free ships in relation to their target. Sacrificing ships was done during this era as well, most notably fire-ships. lol, there were no people in those ships. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diceman Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 That doesn't matter. People do this because they lose nothing more than they would lose via any other form of defeat and it keeps their ship from being captured or used to gain damage XP, so just a silly scorched earth approach to losing, or because they have cheap or free ships in relation to their target. lol, there were no people in those ships. There's no people in these ships either... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucas Corso Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 (edited) That doesn't matter. People do this because they lose nothing more than they would lose via any other form of defeat and it keeps their ship from being captured or used to gain damage XP, so just a silly scorched earth approach to losing, or because they have cheap or free ships in relation to their target. Which are very good reasons I think to make it less effective than it is now! Edited January 10, 2016 by Lucien Delmonte Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diceman Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 There is a lot of historical evidence from the period that deliberate ramming was very rare. This supports the contention that it didn't work ie it damaged the ramming ship more than the rammed one. My statement was not in relation to ship combat in the 1700s. It was in relation to combat in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prater Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 There's no people in these ships either... What a lame comeback. We might as well add rams to the ships like Black Flag. Or add machine guns. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucas Corso Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 My statement was not in relation to ship combat in the 1700s. It was in relation to combat in the game. The game is set in the 18th century... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diceman Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 The game is set in the 18th century... The original post that I responded to on this, was a claim made that excessive damage was being caused by smaller ships to larger ships by ramming in the game. I asked was there data that supports that claim? The question still stands. The 18th century has no part in a question about damage modeling in a computer game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prater Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 How does it have no part when the game is about the 1700s and 1800s and the devs says they strive to faithfully represent it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diceman Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 What a lame comeback. We might as well add rams to the ships like Black Flag. Or add machine guns. It's about as lame as a statement as that there are no people on fireships... Which is another tactic used in this game that is valid. I've seen plenty of people on fire try to lay alongside an opponent to catch them in the explosion and fire. Just as destructive or even more so than a ram. Yet no raging over that??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucas Corso Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 The original post that I responded to on this, was a claim made that excessive damage was being caused by smaller ships to larger ships by ramming in the game. I asked was there data that supports that claim? The question still stands. The 18th century has no part in a question about damage modeling in a computer game. When the game is set in the 18th century of course evidence from the period is applicable to the game! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prater Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 Actually, we have complained. As long as there is crew on board, they aren't going to let their ship blow up unless it is out of control. And to say there are no people on board is flat out wrong as you very well know. Haha, yes, they are virtual people, but they are still represented. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathaniel Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 Is there data that supports the statement that ramming causes more damage one way or the other??? The Devs have put so much effort into the damage modeling in this game that I would be pretty confident thinking that there are many factors affecting who gets what level damage in a ram... I don't know about "smaller ships", haven't made that particular claim, but the topic was started because of an incident where five frigates of different sizes have chainrammed a flag-carrying constitution and all where able to continue the fight unscratched after half a minute in survival mode. I don't claim the constitution shouldn't sink, it should, or that all the five rammers should sink, they shouldn't, but the action should have left them heavily damaged and easy prey to the other ships hammering at them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diceman Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 I don't know about "smaller ships", haven't made that particular claim, but the topic was started because of an incident where five frigates of different sizes have chainrammed a flag-carrying constitution and all where able to continue the fight unscratched after half a minute in survival mode. I don't claim the constitution shouldn't sink, it should, or that all the five rammers should sink, they shouldn't, but the action should have left them heavily damaged and easy prey to the other ships hammering at them. So you saw that these 5 ships were not scratched?? I seriously doubt that statement. I'm sure each suffered a level of damage commiserate to the ram that was abated by survival mode and repairs. Unfortunately, the rammed flag carrier suffered 5 rams to the others 1... Which would probably be unrecoverable from... Part of the game... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diceman Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 (edited) Actually, we have complained. As long as there is crew on board, they aren't going to let their ship blow up unless it is out of control. And to say there are no people on board is flat out wrong as you very well know. Haha, yes, they are virtual people, but they are still represented.Every time I've seen these fireships moments in battles everyone is oohing and aahing and chuckling it up over the "cool" explosion...And some individuals have purposely stayed off of survival to allow that explosion or fire to get out of control because they knew they were done for... Edited January 10, 2016 by Diceman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathaniel Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 So you saw that these 5 ships were not scratched?? I seriously doubt that statement. I'm sure each suffered a level of damage commiserate to the ram that was abated by survival mode and repairs. Unfortunately, the rammed flag carrier suffered 5 rams to the others 1... Which would probably be unrecoverable from... Part of the game... Yes, all of them suffered nearly no structural damage, and did pump out all water and fighting happily in 30 seconds. Are you sure that should be the case? Really? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diceman Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 (edited) Yes, all of them suffered nearly no structural damage, and did pump out all water and fighting happily in 30 seconds. Are you sure that should be the case? Really?Yep.Really. And unless you were on one of those 5 ships I'll have to take your version of the damage received to those ships with a grain of salt... Edited January 10, 2016 by Diceman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathaniel Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 A frigate, ramming another frigate (same size or larger) at full speed at a 90 degree angle being able to be completely restored and return to fight with other ships in 30 seconds? Hm.... ok, opinion noted, next please. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronald Speirs Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 Nerf it to stop the kids buying cheap frigates to ram the low dura rates just to grief them, battle just starts and they ram straight out, its taking away from what the game is designed for, fire and aiming the fire at ships when ur about to die seems more acceptable, but ramming is abit of a joke in its current state. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mouse of war Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 A full on ram of a large ship by a smaller should result in some or all of the smaller ship's masts going by the board - ships masts are designed to be strong enough to stand the strain of full sail and a fair wind. They are not strong enough to also withstand their own momentum when the ship they are attached to suddenly stops dead in the water. Add the effect of prior battle damage to masts and rigging and you can see that full-on ramming of a large by a small ship is simply ship-suicide as regards rigging Mind you the two ships would then be inextricably entangled by the fallen masts There are numerous accounts of ships losing their masts when going aground unexpectedly But I have never seen any accounts of purposeful ramming of large sailing ships by small and I guess that's is because the captains know what the result would be And I read all the accounts of the era that I can get my hands on The damage to the target ship could be quite high but only above the waterline - due to the profile of bows of the ramming vessel. I feel a larger target ship should lose some guns and amour but spring no leaks 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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