Royal Armed Yacht

[admin]

We are making a small beautiful ship for the game

Its a 12 gun armed yacht that will be provided for distinguished gentlemen for military accomplishments or bribes.

 

Can someone provide references on how these parts could have looked like in real life 

and explain (or draw) how they should be modeled correctly

 

Also need information on how the sail plan might look like for this ship

 

its a ship N3 on this reference

http://www.sjohistoriska.se/ImageVaultFiles/id_3074/cf_1788/44.JPG

[Ned Loe]

That is a wooden support for a rope as far as I can tell...

 

What do you mean how should they be modeled? 

Here is an example:

 

[Ned Loe]

Another example of 2 rope holes for an anchor.

 

[Ned Loe]

I would model it like this:

1st, as is, not sure why it is there, I would remove it...))

2nd, should follow curves that go to a figurehead.

 

[Ned Loe]

Another example:

 

[maturin]

Yeah, #2 is just a thickened bit of timber for mounting the hawsehole. For hawsers, or anchor line. I've noticed that the textures on one of your other ship models made its hawsehole look like it was planked over. When really, it should be a black hole with maybe a hawser coming out of it, attached to the anchor.

 

These are Chapman drawings (another good addition to the library). As I understand it, there should be some text attached, in the full edition of the book (there are PDFs online, but some seem to be behind minor paywalls). But anyways, Chapman drew examples of vessel types, rather than draughts of existing craft (AFAIK). He probably just had a preference for a protruding hawsehole mount. You can see the same sort of construction on practically every other hull on that page.

 

 

As for component number 1, that is a sort of slide for the anchor head, to avoid the iron scraping across trim and planks. I've have never actually noticed such a construction before, and don't know what it's called. Again, Chapman must have been a fan, because he's drawn one on just about every vessel in the book.

 

Here is a real-world example on the Rose (movie HMS Surprise):

http://www.modelships.de/Museums_and_replicas/Frigate_HMS_Rose/gIMG_3624.jpg

 

 

As for the rig, since the yacht itself never likely existed, we'd have to find analogues, which would require some more background on the drawing, or some hunting. But sloop rig is the only real option, probably with square topsail and t'gallant.

Maybe something like this, although Chapman's vessel seems larger: http://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/66167.html

Or here: http://www.christies.com/lotfinder/drawings-watercolors/dutch-school-18th-century-an-english-admiralty-5366895-details.aspx

[Ned Loe]

Yeah, #2 is just a thickened bit of timber for mounting the hawsehole. For hawsers, or anchor line. I've noticed that the textures on one of your other ship models made its hawsehole look like it was planked over. When really, it should be a black hole with maybe a hawser coming out of it, attached to the anchor.

 

These are Chapman drawings (another good addition to the library). As I understand it, there should be some text attached, in the full edition of the book (there are PDFs online, but some seem to be behind minor paywalls). But anyways, Chapman drew examples of vessel types, rather than draughts of existing craft (AFAIK). He probably just had a preference for a protruding hawsehole mount. You can see the same sort of construction on practically every other hull on that page.

 

 

As for component number 1, that is a sort of slide for the anchor head, to avoid the iron scraping across trim and planks. I've have never actually noticed such a construction before, and don't know what it's called. Again, Chapman must have been a fan, because he's drawn one on just about every vessel in the book.

 

Here is a real-world example on the Rose (movie HMS Surprise):

http://www.modelships.de/Museums_and_replicas/Frigate_HMS_Rose/gIMG_3624.jpg

 

 

As for the rig, since the yacht itself never likely existed, we'd have to find analogues, which would require some more background on the drawing, or some hunting. But sloop rig is the only real option, probably with square topsail and t'gallant.

Maybe something like this, although Chapman's vessel seems larger: http://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/66167.html

Or here: http://www.christies.com/lotfinder/drawings-watercolors/dutch-school-18th-century-an-english-admiralty-5366895-details.aspx

Ah, I see it now! hehe... Painted black, almost can't see it...That is very interesting, they inserted thick blocks to protect planks and hull from a falling anchor. 

[maturin]

The Gotheburg also has one of those funny slides for the anchor: http://www.timedesign.de/ship/goetheborg.jpg

[admin]

 

As for the rig, since the yacht itself never likely existed, we'd have to find analogues, which would require some more background on the drawing, or some hunting. But sloop rig is the only real option, probably with square topsail and t'gallant.

Maybe something like this, although Chapman's vessel seems larger: http://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/66167.html

Or here: http://www.christies.com/lotfinder/drawings-watercolors/dutch-school-18th-century-an-english-admiralty-5366895-details.aspx

 

beautiful yacht references

thank you

[Brigand]

there is an actual sailing replica of a yacht with standing gaff rig, the Statenjacht Utrecht, although I believe it is a different vessel type (intended for shallow waters) and it was unarmed.

(Interior view on bottom of page)

~Brigand

 

edit:

extra links: drawings, interior

[maturin]

Also, if the anchor slide strikes you as ugly, I would call it optional, especially for a pleasure craft. Outside of Chapman's drawings, I almost never seem them on draughts. It may have been an early 18th century trend (it's odd for practical features like that to go away rather than increase in popularity, or maybe the anchor-handling tackle improved). But I can't find a ship of the line that has them, nor do they seem to be a common feature of small vessels.

[Malachi]

The Gotheborg has one

 

http://www.shipsandharbours.com/picture/number4650.asp

 

The reason you don´t see anchor slides on contemporary draughts is that a lot of stuff was omitted (like scuppers, every ship had them, but I´ve yet to see it on a plan).

 

Concerning the rigging: Chapman shows ca. 15 rigging plans on plate 60 in his Architectura Navalis Merchatoria and ,if I remember correctly, one is for a single-masted yacht.

[Baggywrinkle]

Number one is simply a sacrifical section of timber to protect the hull proper from the battering it gets from the flukes when catting the anchor. Not common perhaps, but there are a fair few traditional vessels that have them.

Part two has been pretty well covered. Nice references all round, enjoyed looking through those.

Baggy

[admin]

Can you help us with examples of deck designs for such ship?

[Brigand]

I'm working on a deck design, it's comming along nicely.

[BungeeLemming]

as you have the charham book Id say sailplan No 12 looks good.

Its a cutter-rigging anyway imho.

[Thomas Blackwell]

N3 on Admin's reference coupled with Bungee's #12 would create a fantastic looking vessel. +1

[masterofn0ne]

love this. does Admin intend this vessel to be used as an auxiliary unit alongside another ship, or is this something an avatar would only use in port?

[Malachi]

I´m wondering if this ship was armed at all. The 'gun ports' seem to be very close to the deck

[Brigand]

I´m wondering if this ship was armed at all. The 'gun ports' seem to be very close to the deck

 

I'm wondering this as well. In the Netherlands, 'armed yachts' where used for 'spiegelgevechten' which would translate as 'Transom fights', referring to the ornately decorated transom of these gentelmen's yachts. These 'fights' where a mere show, gentlemens play. Only blanks where fired and it was considered a very entertaining day out and a beautifull opportunety to impress the ladies.

 

On deck, there is room for five of the six gunports to accomodate a gun (the front ones are blocked by a deck). However, the avarage height from the top of the deck to the center of the bore of the gun is about 33 cm (roughly 1 foot). This would only leave room for a very small gun, I'm guessing half-pounders.

 

The other option was that the armament was not carriage guns, but swiffel guns instead. You could still call it an Armed Yacht offcourse, and it could definately cause a lot of damage with those to enemy sailors.

 

I don't own a copy of Chapman's Architectura Navalis Mercatoria, does it give any descriptions on those plans?

 

~Brigand

[Malachi]

For the yachts, Chapman only gives the general dimensions. The privateers and - to a lesser extent - 'historical ships' (e.g. Sirène) have a much more detailed description - armament, crew size, room for provisions, draught fore and aft etc.

[BungeeLemming]

The chapman's book gives the information you can find in this thread. Sadly no more detail on it.

 

You can find all the data needed on the hull but rigging is not mentioned.

The chart of all ships and their armament, lenght, draught etc does not say a word about armament.

The category in wich the yacht is listed is called "Pleasure Vessels". It even tells "no oars".

 

edit:

i was too late

[maturin]

I think you could use the deck plan of any large sloop for the yacht. It looks like it has an open waist and a quarterdeck, probably with a small foredeck as all. No yacht is going to vary in the essentials inboard. Just give it brass guns and make the bell and quarterdeck bulwarks a little prettier.

[Marion van Ghent]

Admin, is assistance still needed with developing a deck plan for this ship?

[Malachi]

Hm, just had a closer look at the plan, might be that you´d have to change to the hull shape a bit if you want to have an ocean-going vessel, it appears to be pretty 'flat'.