runners

[StuffinBeard]

I think practicing how to evade for open world seems kind of unnecessary. If you get some distance and are pulling away then...done deal. Running for 20 min in a arena game does not give any experience other than tacking experience but as far as I know there is a PvE area that would work great for learning to sail? I guess this will all change once open sea is implemented.

I would run if it was called for. No sense in giving up if there is a chance to survive but that is for open world.

Jmo

[StuffinBeard]

I've seen several people run away in the last couple of months. Doesn't happen too often though.The arena zone wasn't originally there and is supposed to be temporary(IIRC). It was added in because there were people who would run away and claim that they were testing the running mechanics and you would chase them for 50 minutes and never catch them. I assume the zone will be removed on open world so people can run away, and I hope it is removed, even when I assume I will be doing quite a bit of chasing.

It could be quite fun to have someone run in a direction and think they are safe only to suddenly realize you have crept back up on them to take your revenge. 8)

[Sir Cloudsley-Shovell]

I have noticed that in a few PVE Matches where there are more than 1 ships that the ship on my side stays still as i hurtle towards the Enemy to Engage.So i get attention from BOTH the enemy ships and end up getting really damaged,then my so called oppo starts to join in.Not very Gentlemanly behaviour in my book!

[admin]

This might mean that people will just fit small long guns with a short reload on their bow and as long as one cannon ball hits the enemy they can never get away. Once you reach the arena border you would be forced to fight or surrender. This would pretty much make it impossible for merchants to run when their ships are of equal speed or even if the mechant's ship is slightly faster. I suppose we'll see how it works out in practise, but I suspect that trading will be pointless if this is the case.

 

 

The circle will only be present in organized battles, in the open world it will not exist. 

[StaleMemes]

People in the sea trials test seem to think that any sort of leaving close quarters double shot range is "running." Today in a battle, I was in my yacht with an ally Trincomalee. The Trinc lost connection/crashed/left halfway through the battle leaving me alone vs a surprise and a navybrig.

 

I quickly ran upwind because I knew they had doubles loaded and hoped to capitalize on this and get a few shots in before they loaded ball, at which point I would charge back in with double, you get the idea.

 

almost immediately the surprise said "I'm not going to chase you" and instantly quits. really? I was not intending to draw out the battle indefinitely, just try and outsmart them when it comes to what shot I load (not that it would make difference 1 yacht vs a surprise and a navy brig, but anyhow)

[BlouBulle]

A simple solution would be that if no damage is done for 5 minutes (after the 1st 10 minutes of battle) and the one teams ships are further away then the other teams ships then the team with a higher tonnage and crew wins:

 

Basically:

Are the ships out of range?
Has no Damage been done for 5 minutes?

Then:

Which team has greater tonnage and crew wins (tonnage/Crew= score)
 

 

OR just make it that if you do no damage for over 10 minutes in a game and you are the last ship and you have not taken damage in those 10 minutes your score is halved unless you surrender (surrendering should be a feature that is only possible if you are the last ship by clicking the board ship button).

Edited March 16, 2015 by BlouBulle

[Prater]

If a ship runs away, the battle should be unresolved, or the player that runs away should get the loss.  If I am in a privateer and a merchant runs away, I should NOT get the loss.

[Grim DeGrim]

I should think that if the merchant escapes, that he gets the win... (OW)

[Grim DeGrim]

But I just make a point... If someone runs it OW, it is unresolved. There is no win or loss.

However, the merchant will know he escaped, and the privateer will know he failed. That is enough for me.

Edited March 16, 2015 by Grim DeGrim

[Prater]

The only problem is, we do not know how the instances will be.  If the starting positions are like how they are now, it will be hard to catch someone if they run, and it shouldn't count against the attacker.  It also shouldn't count against the merchant because it will ruin their stats.

 

If the runner gets the victory, then someone can just run and quit and ruin a person's stats just for the hell of it.

 

It should be unresolved and not count.

[Grim DeGrim]

I only point out it is a matter of perspective:

-if I attack a merchant full of goods (as example), and he manages to escape... Who really won? The merchant of course.

Starting positions & etc... All noise. When someone escapes in open world, and there is no sink or capture, then no one has won. Neither side has achieved a victory.

But I guarantee that merchant and privateer each will innately know who actually won. In case there's still confusion: the merchant still has his cargo & ship.

Edit: maybe we cross talk... We're both saying there is no Victor. Hence, no win or loss...from a stats perspective

Edited March 16, 2015 by Grim DeGrim

[Kaaru62]

this isnt counting the open world. by all means run away from a fight, I know will. open world battles wont be about winning or losing, it will be about surviving. this thread is just about the arena and dragging out a lost battle just to annoy others.

[Prater]

Some people started discussing Open World though, and that is what these responses are addressing.

Edited March 16, 2015 by Prater

[Sir Cloudsley-Shovell]

Sometimes thats all you can do,Square rigged ships just wont be able to keep up with the Fore and Aft rigged vessels,a brig can chase a lynx all day and not get close enough!

[Prater]

Or the other way around, a Brig can run downwind all day and a lynx will never catch it.  Such battles should count as unresolved.  The attacker should not be penalized when the defender can just run right from the start and the attacker has no chance of catching up.

[Grim DeGrim]

Hating to nit pick Prater... It is perspective. Nor should the defender be penalized. To run (say, from a 5v1) might be the right decision.

I still think that we're saying the same thing, it is just that you make it sound as if the attacker is owed something for the attempted engagement. The defender is equally owed a "no resolution" (eg, draw).

[B24LIBERATOR]

Why doesn't the defender have the right to run? There's no point in going full Alamo mode, just because somebody isn't playing your way doesn't mean they're doing it wrong.

 

Open world is probably coming soon and you can get good practice in chasing ships down or preventing them from running.

[Prater]

Hating to nit pick Prater... It is perspective. Nor should the defender be penalized. To run (say, from a 5v1) might be the right decision.

I still think that we're saying the same thing, it is just that you make it sound as if the attacker is owed something for the attempted engagement. The defender is equally owed a "no resolution" (eg, draw).

Agreed.

 

 

 

 

Why doesn't the defender have the right to run? There's no point in going full Alamo mode, just because somebody isn't playing your way doesn't mean they're doing it wrong.

 

Open world is probably coming soon and you can get good practice in chasing ships down or preventing them from running.

 

 

In Open World, they do have the right to run.  The question is where in the instance will the attacker and defender start out and how long until the defender or attacker can leave the instance?  If the distance is too far away for the time, it will be impossible for the attacker to ever catch the defender when the defender is a slower ship and should be caught by the faster ship.  Gaming the system to escape when you shouldn't be able to shouldn't be possible (unless you use shallows, etc).  If I am a Trincomalee, a brig should not be able to escape by running downwind until the timer runs out.  I am the faster ship and will catch the brig and should have enough time in the instance to catch the brig.  If I am chasing a fore-and-aft craft who sails upwind and outruns me, then they have clearly escaped.

 

 

In Sea Trials TDM, admins have stated running is against the rules.

Edited March 16, 2015 by Prater

[B24LIBERATOR]

You can only run so far before you hit the limit, just cut the corner and chase them down.

[Kaaru62]

this morning I was in a 3v3. 1 enemy player stayed on the outside shooting into the melee instead of helping his teammates. we won the 3v2 and as soon as we did, the 3rd player turned and ran. we chased him figuring he would have to turn when he got to the edge of the arena. instead of turning he went outside the arena border and disconnected.

 

yay for gamey tactics

[SueMyChin]

In Open World, they do have the right to run.  The question is where in the instance will the attacker and defender start out and how long until the defender or attacker can leave the instance? ....

 

This is the sort of thing that will need to be experimented with once we can begin testing it and I wouldn't expect it to work perfectly at first. Or how about the suggestion below?

 

For the open world battles running will not be a problem. 

We will have the following mechanic to partially solve the problem of runners

 

1) When you enter the battle you will receive the battle flag that will be active for lets say 2-5 minutes (time that is enough to get first shots into enemy)

2) After 5 minutes pass the countdown timer will start - lets say 2 minutes

3) If you inflicted or received no damage during this countdown you can then exit the battle with no penalties. 

 

so if someone is running from you you will be able to just exit the battle and get your ship out of the engagement.

 

 

There are problems that will arise using damage dealt at the reset. Examples would be:

 

• There are two pursuers chasing a third player far off in the distance, so long as the two pursuers fire one shot into each other every few minutes or so the battle doesn't end.

   

• Say a pursuer has no shot left after a drawn out battle but is still faster, with double the crew remaining. He could clearly still win by boarding but might not get the time. The battle could end with him just yards away from grappling range.

   

• A chase might have chain shot loaded to slow a pursuer down. His aim is to get away, so despite firing the chain and doing damage (thus resting the timer) he won't want the timer to be reset.

   

• A privateer might not want to fire at a merchant because it damages his prize. (Should the mechanism be added) he might prefer to come along side and wait for the merchant to strike.

 

Could I propose a distance trigger instead, so that once there are no hostile ships within X distance of each other a short timer begins and if they haven't closed distance before it ends the instance is automatically ended.

 

You could then start an instance with the ships X distance apart, if the chase is faster the instance won't last long. If the pursuer is faster then there is no danger of the instance ending before they come to blows.

 

You would need to give some thought as to how we differentiate between friend and foe in an instance but this must be implemented anyway otherwise, with your quoted idea above, it will simply be exploited as in the first example given. So it's not going to be any extra work.

 

 

It would also be nice to have an 'end instance' box to tick at the start and remaining throughout every instance. Upon both (or at least 90% in larger battles) of the players ticking the box the instance closes. If only one (or more than 10%) haven't ticked the box then it will remain open until the timer runs down, one side has no ships left or more boxes are ticked.

This way players can mutually close the instance whenever they like should it be desirable to do so, say for example if they know the chase is faster and already out of range there's no wasting time looking at a timer.

Edited March 17, 2015 by SueMyChin

[Kaaru62]

i just had a match that had a santi on each side, along with 2 trincos and me, a surprise. i followed close to our santi and watched him engage the enemy santi. the enemy santi wasted 5 volly's shooting at our friendly santi trying to demast him. when our santi got close enough to do damage to the enemy santi. after 1 volley that did a little damage, the enemy amazingly turned and ran away, i mean never looked back, just left his team alone to get slaughtered. when we went to go clean up the remains he was gone. he had to have sailed out of bounds and timed out.

 

the only thing i could figure was that he was a pve player that was a first time pvp player that got scared. just amazing how someone could just turn and flee like that after 1 hit.

[kang]

You can only run so far before you hit the limit, just cut the corner and chase them down.

 

Yeah, if there's not much time left then I think any kind of running is fair.  If there's a lot of time left, it can be a little annoying but if you know what you're doing (which I don't at the moment), then it seems like the mechanics of the arena take care of most of the problem.

[montyrattus]

One thing I hate more than runners is the bone idle sods that do not even move, there is one player (mentioning no names) that always sails in the HMS Victory that refuses to move unless his smaller team mates draw the enemy to him. This means that you have to kite the enemy fleet, getting shot at the entire time and pray they get in range of Mr X's guns before you sink, he then proceeds to sink the enemy and rack up a massive score.

[Brigand]

Let's not turn this thread in a 'what I don't like in other players' discussion. Please stay on topic everyone.

 

Cheers,

Brigand