"Naval Arms Race" mod overhaul. BETA v11.4 - for UAD v1.5.1.6

[flaviohc16]

2 hours ago, o Barão said:

BETA v5.0.2 N.A.R. changelog:

• Updated to UAD 1.4.1.1R
• Ships sections on fire needed to make it sunk buffed from 70% to 80%, credits to "brothermunro" for the tip.

This is exactly what I was talking about when talking about nerfing HE power

[Fangoriously]

Putting it on nexus is a good idea, had to reset my ip to download the last update.

Well how about that! brothermunro discovering important parameters to tinker with. We'll see what it takes to burn things down when I actually try too now.

[mother_oni]

On 1/26/2024 at 2:45 AM, o Barão said:

BETA v5.0.2 N.A.R. changelog:

• Updated to UAD 1.4.1.1R
• Ships sections on fire needed to make it sunk buffed from 70% to 80%, credits to "brothermunro" for the tip.

 

Important Info for the upcoming days.

I will be on holidays starting at day 8 for 2 weeks, so don't expect me to be around to fix any issues with any updates during that period.

I will try to get some time before, to update the mod description pdf with all the changes and move the mod files to "Nexus". This will solve my headaches with cloud services, well, I hope.

*The place to gather feedback from the players, will still be here, not Nexus.

Thanks for the hard work you put in  (I fiddled around a bit more and got it to work with this patch you sent out)

Quick question; do you have plans to add in the US 8"/55 (20.3 cm) RF Mark 16's?

[o Barão]

17 hours ago, mother_oni said:

do you have plans to add in the US 8"/55 (20.3 cm) RF Mark 16's?

You want 8" shell with a 6 seconds reload.

It would be fun, but I can't. In game there are already loading mechanics, but they are universal for all nations. It is not possible to create a gun, to have a different reload time only for that caliber, that nation.

[SpardaSon21]

On 1/30/2024 at 1:36 PM, o Barão said:

You want 8" shell with a 6 seconds reload.

It would be fun, but I can't. In game there are already loading mechanics, but they are universal for all nations. It is not possible to create a gun, to have a different reload time only for that caliber, that nation.

At least the 6"/47 Mark 16 would be reasonably balanced as a 6" gun with a 5 second reload.

 

Of course, the USN was working on a fully-automatic version similar to the 8" RF guns that would have had a per-gun RPM of 20 in triple turrets, but the end of the war axed those.

[Deadpan_Alpaca]

I have a question which may (or may not) be related to the mod mechanics so sorry in advance. 

Does research rate being affected by the naval budget size? Like, let's say I have 5 million naval budget as a whole and I don't pick any focuses on any tech, but it seems that I would still lag behind AI with 10-15 million budget, so that at some point of time my tech level becomes "behind". Can't remember such development in my earlier campaigns. 

[NiKuTa]

I merge all files which are changed in you mod and I notice that in "params-resources.assets-11844.txt" file is missing one line from file in v1.4.1.1 Opt.

oil_capacity_province_linear_mod,10,Modifier for base oil production,,,,,,,

it is bug or you don't notice this change in game ?

 

 

 

 

[o Barão]

14 hours ago, NiKuTa said:

I merge all files which are changed in you mod and I notice that in "params-resources.assets-11844.txt" file is missing one line from file in v1.4.1.1 Opt.

oil_capacity_province_linear_mod,10,Modifier for base oil production,,,,,,,

it is bug or you don't notice this change in game ?

Not a bug. I didn't update the mod to the current version yet, that is why you are seeing different things.

 

16 hours ago, Deadpan_Alpaca said:

I have a question which may (or may not) be related to the mod mechanics so sorry in advance. 

Does research rate being affected by the naval budget size? Like, let's say I have 5 million naval budget as a whole and I don't pick any focuses on any tech, but it seems that I would still lag behind AI with 10-15 million budget, so that at some point of time my tech level becomes "behind". Can't remember such development in my earlier campaigns. 

It is not supposed to affect, but you are not the first player that mentions the same issue. Sorry, but atm I don't have the answers for that situation.

[o Barão]

BETA v5.0.3 N.A.R. changelog:

• Updated to UAD 1.4.1.1 Optx2

 

Note: As I mention before, I will go on holidays tomorrow and I will only return by the end of the month.

[Draco]

Happy holidays Baron!

[StrikerDanger]

Enjoy your holiday, Baron! Thanks for all that you do!

[NiKuTa]

It is normal to have so much money with this mod?

In 1914 Germany I have on peace time +350 milions, During war I have + 1 000.000.000. My naval founds are 32 000.000.000. I play on legendary difficulty. Active ships 304.

 

It is normal ? I Play first time with this mod and before that I always have some problem with money.

 

[Tibs]

Huge fan of the work you've done with this mod and one for a previous game. Is there any chance you might release a Lite version of the mod?

None of the ship building modifications but with all the changes you've made to models, gun sizes, stability etc.?

[newvegasmatt]

On 2/6/2024 at 7:12 PM, o Barão said:

Not a bug. I didn't update the mod to the current version yet, that is why you are seeing different things.

 

It is not supposed to affect, but you are not the first player that mentions the same issue. Sorry, but atm I don't have the answers for that situation.

Ok, I'm doing a 1890 Austria playthrough. I have had technology maxed from day one, never used the beaker to speed up anything.
It is now 1907 and I just got marked as behind.

Somehow tech has been messed with and maybe the other guy was onto something with it being linked to GDP?
 

No idea, but it really bummed me out. I did a vanilla French campaign before this, and managed to be very advanced by 1912.

Edit: Further confirmation about budget and research being linked. In this playthrough, Britain is Very Advanced, while every other state is either average or Behind. Britain's GDP is about 4 times the next closest nation.

Edited February 14 by newvegasmatt

[MDHansen]

Research is up to 45%* (slider at 100%) of your naval budget. So, technically, yes, it is linked to GDP.

*unsure if vanilla is more or less than this, since I have tinkered with a lot of stuff

Edited February 14 by MDHansen

[CenturionsofRome]

Is there a way to increase the tonnage limit before the AI starts scrapping ships? I like to play from 1890 which means by ~1920 everyone has effectively unlimited cash. But while I'm running around with 20 BB the AI only has ~7 and keeps scrapping them almost as soon as they come off the slipway.

[Deadpan_Alpaca]

On 2/14/2024 at 5:40 PM, MDHansen said:

Research is up to 45%* (slider at 100%) of your naval budget. So, technically, yes, it is linked to GDP.

*unsure if vanilla is more or less than this, since I have tinkered with a lot of stuff

If to think about it, it is an interesting mechanic but then sliders ATM are not doing what they are supposed to do. 

We have naval budget. Thing with governmental budgets is that you are not supposed to hoard all that money in some stockpile - you use EVERYTHING because if you have any money left, that means that you are:

1) not using money efficiently - maybe higher ups should think about your replacement 

2) using money efficiently but receiving too much for your current needs so budget  for the next year should be cut

"Income" and "treasury" mechanics should be removed. You always use 100% of your naval budget, period. And here come sliders - where you define exact parts of budget, allocated to convoys, ship building, research, training and so on. They are interconnected so you move one slider right - others are moved to the left.

 

[NiKuTa]

On 2/9/2024 at 7:05 PM, NiKuTa said:

It is normal to have so much money with this mod?

In 1914 Germany I have on peace time +350 milions, During war I have + 1 000.000.000. My naval founds are 32 000.000.000. I play on legendary difficulty. Active ships 304.

 

It is normal ? I Play first time with this mod and before that I always have some problem with money.

 

thx anyone for reply. SO I sill don't know is this some kind of bug in the game/mod or something else. I played only one campaign as Japan and there I had a problem with money. Now I play as German and I dont know what to do with money. Campaign become boring

Edited February 19 by NiKuTa

[PicklePete]

On 2/19/2024 at 10:03 AM, NiKuTa said:

thx anyone for reply. SO I sill don't know is this some kind of bug in the game/mod or something else. I played only one campaign as Japan and there I had a problem with money. Now I play as German and I dont know what to do with money. Campaign become boring

Same here, money flowing like crazy. This game is messed up big time XD

[o Barão]

Just a quick update. The mod files are now available on Google Drive.

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1kXuaGBXf46rpE07OwQuqoB9dUi7evgnn

[o Barão]

On 2/19/2024 at 9:03 AM, NiKuTa said:

thx anyone for reply. SO I sill don't know is this some kind of bug in the game/mod or something else. I played only one campaign as Japan and there I had a problem with money. Now I play as German and I dont know what to do with money. Campaign become boring

Legendary difficult will only increase the AI money.

The differences between the mod and the game are:

The hull foundation and survivability modifiers are cheaper on the mod (around 30%)*

The naval war budget is smaller on the mod 1.5 vs 1.7 on stock game.

 

*there are other modifiers responsible for ship costs/all the other economy modifiers are the same.

There were many changes to the economy made by the devs in the recent months, and I am not aware how much they will influence the economy.

 

I can nerf the economy (province, base budget, oil -income modifiers), but I would like to ear other players opinions about that first.

 

[killjoy1941]

20 hours ago, o Barão said:

I can nerf the economy (province, base budget, oil -income modifiers), but I would like to ear other players opinions about that first.

It's probably fine.

The fact that a non-warmongering US/UK/France can build whatever the hell they want about 20yrs after start isn't a problem. It's the player that tips the balance. Once the player starts a war, the AIs are far more likely to be pulled into wars as well from the negative events and diplo changes, damaging their economies.

Also, economy nerfs are kind of bad. Once the wars begin to cascade into world war, it becomes difficult for AIs to get out of the cycle. Economic nerfs mean economic collapse, which can mean - like frequently happens in Dreadnaught Improvement Project - nations dissolve.

[NiKuTa]

11 hours ago, killjoy1941 said:

It's probably fine.

The fact that a non-warmongering US/UK/France can build whatever the hell they want about 20yrs after start isn't a problem. It's the player that tips the balance. Once the player starts a war, the AIs are far more likely to be pulled into wars as well from the negative events and diplo changes, damaging their economies.

Also, economy nerfs are kind of bad. Once the wars begin to cascade into world war, it becomes difficult for AIs to get out of the cycle. Economic nerfs mean economic collapse, which can mean - like frequently happens in Dreadnaught Improvement Project - nations dissolve.

Game is to easy now with this economic. Before last patches I always have to balance with money, Now I have so much money that Game become boring. I played as Japan, Ger, and now Austria-Hung, and money flows like crazy. Probably player money needs nerf not AI.

Edited February 25 by NiKuTa

[StrikerDanger]

If there's going to be an economy nerf, I'd balance it against ship costs. Top-of-the-line warships in 1940 (for example) shouldn't be pushing the billion (and usually much higher) figure mark. Slashing economy growth numbers by a flat percentage across the board, as well as ship costs, could be a good thing. But as I've no idea how you'd go about balancing this nerf, other than a quaint idea, I don't have much more to say... other than the frankly absurd amounts of money any nation can rack up.

[killjoy1941]

23 hours ago, NiKuTa said:

Game is to easy now with this economic. Before last patches I always have to balance with money, Now I have so much money that Game become boring. I played as Japan, Ger, and now Austria-Hung, and money flows like crazy. Probably player money needs nerf not AI.

I'm fine with less money so long as the AI can handle it. Watching Germany, Spain, and China disintegrate in the 1920s on Legendary because they got caught in a cascade of wars is... not fun. The AI has to be able to keep positive budgets through multiple long wars on any difficulty setting, so long as it's holding its core territories. That's true of the game right now. It absolutely wasn't before.

Can it be further refined? Probably. The abstraction of making the player the head of the admiralty without having any real pressures on government to adjust spending is the hard limit on what can be changed. There's only so much modders can do, so I wouldn't expect this to actually go away as a problem entirely no matter how many changes are made.

 

57 minutes ago, StrikerDanger said:

If there's going to be an economy nerf, I'd balance it against ship costs. Top-of-the-line warships in 1940 (for example) shouldn't be pushing the billion (and usually much higher) figure mark. Slashing economy growth numbers by a flat percentage across the board, as well as ship costs, could be a good thing. But as I've no idea how you'd go about balancing this nerf, other than a quaint idea, I don't have much more to say... other than the frankly absurd amounts of money any nation can rack up.

NAR sort of already fixed this if you're willing to live with the skewed values. Navies in NAR are generally much smaller than in vanilla, and the NAR AIs are better about scrapping and updating than in vanilla.

Billion-dollar ships in trillion-dollar budgets is functionally the same as ships costing tens of millions in billion-dollar budgets. I think what you're looking for is for, say, Japan or Italy to be capable of supporting a roughly historical-sized navy in both 1890 and 1930 with a roughly historical-sized budget.

I'm not sure if any of the modders have an interest in doing that. They'd have to price-adjust every single component over the course of the entire game across the entire tech tree against a modified GDP growth. That's an insane amount of truly tedious work.

I'd actually love it if that got adjusted, I'm saying we probably shouldn't expect it to change much.