"Naval Arms Race" mod overhaul. BETA v11 - for UAD v1.5.1.1 Optx4

[Fangoriously]

well thats news to me you could fit main guns around those 2in guns mounts on any of those hulls. After some tinkering, i found that the main gun has to be placed on a center line mounting point, not just placed wile holding down ctrl. good to know!

So it looks like those 5in turrets can fit on dreadnought V and up like in your picture, but dreadnought I-IV have the fitment issue. You would need a mid 19-teens American campaign working on refits to run into this exact problem i'm having. By the time your secondaries are mk5 though, you probably wouldn't have any of those hulls in service, if the mk4 turret was that generic 5/38, that would fix the issue I, and anyone running a 1910 American campaign, are having.

 

I totally agree on those goals as well. As historically accurate as possible with the models available, single turrets heaving a physically smaller model whenever possible, and less generics, more unique. i was thinking for china

These 2 turrets for everything 1915 on basically, 9-14in for the smaller turret and 15-20in for that larger Japanese turret, and remove that turret from Japanese use. Maybe use french quads too? Or the American quads?

For Spain, they can basically use that British turret for everything thats fine, and remove that from British use. I think there is a rarely seen kgv quad turret model that had the 2in mount on top, could be Spain exclusive as well.

Plenty of generic main guns everyone uses that could be better organized and made more unique, that would be a big project to figure all that out. I'll continue to ponder it.

Edited June 16, 2023 by Fangoriously

[o Barão]

2 hours ago, Fangoriously said:

These 2 turrets for everything 1915 on basically, 9-14in for the smaller turret and 15-20in for that larger Japanese turret, and remove that turret from Japanese use. Maybe use french quads too? Or the American quads?

For Spain, they can basically use that British turret for everything thats fine, and remove that from British use. I think there is a rarely seen kgv quad turret model that had the 2in mount on top, could be Spain exclusive as well.

Plenty of generic main guns everyone uses that could be better organized and made more unique, that would be a big project to figure all that out. I'll continue to ponder it.

No need to suggest anything. Many things are already changing, and I already have a good idea what to do for Spain and China. First, all fantasy quad big caliber guns are removed from the game. So no more generic KGV quad guns. Only France, Britain and USA will have big caliber quad guns. (USA never build capital quad guns, but they made several Tillman BB designs featuring turrets with many barrels, and they have a 3D model) This will also help in creating an exclusive design language for each nation.

Atm, these are the nations already done: USA, Britain, France, Germany, Austria and Italy. *USA and France still need some barrel length fixes for the smaller caliber guns.

Italy took me sometime. I had to find models to better represent the guns listed below. So there are many changes around 9"-13" Mk1,Mk2 and Mk3 variants.

http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNIT_12-40.php

http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNIT_12-46_m1909.php

http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNBR_135-30_mk1.php

http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNIT_10-45_M1908.php

Japan and Russia are, next, and I expect them to be quick.

For both Spain and China, since late guns are pure fantasy. I will create a distinct design language for both. Spain will focus on a "box" design, and I already have the perfect model for that. China will be about curve lines.

 

By the end of the next week, I expect to have everything done.

 

[Fangoriously]

I've got mixed feelings on the removal of quads from those without proper models, espesualy in the real late era with things like the long range accuracy buff from your spotter planes, they don't feel like inaccurate, unwieldy junk. Would it be worth the effort to add quad guns all the way down to 9in? Or maybe 12in?

Perhaps in place of the empty quad turret unlock, improved, and advanced research, you could give those factions improved single guns? Maybe +3 accuracy, etc for each research. Instead of volume of fire these factions could have a focus on sniper turrets.

I look forward to see what you come how you make the model usage more coherent and historicaly accurate.

[o Barão]

3 hours ago, Fangoriously said:

Would it be worth the effort to add quad guns all the way down to 9in? Or maybe 12in?

I am removing all the fantasy quads from the game, and you are asking to add more fantasy quad guns.

Fun fact, if I am not mistaken, from stock game files, only the French have 13" inch quad guns. To represent the Dunkerque class. So there was an interest from the devs to have some historical accuracy.

3 hours ago, Fangoriously said:

 

Perhaps in place of the empty quad turret unlock, improved, and advanced research, you could give those factions improved single guns? Maybe +3 accuracy, etc for each research. Instead of volume of fire these factions could have a focus on sniper turrets.

That is not how the game files work. Also, would be a fantasy buff for the nations without access to quads. If you read the mod description, the first thing you will read is "Naval Arms Race, or simple "N.A.R.", is a mod overhaul for U.A.D. with focus in historical accuracy being applied in reworking several game mechanics."

That was always my work philosophy. The same thing I did with the mod overhaul "TTE" for "WOTS". It is my personal taste. Is what I like to see from mods in war games.

[o Barão]

0.9.3 N.A.R. changelog:

Guns Rework Special Edition (part II)

• Updated to UAD 1.3.9
• Guns rework done for these nations: USA; Britain; France; Austria-Hungary; Germany and Italy.
• Fantasy quad guns removed from the game. Only Britain, France and USA will have access to big caliber quad guns.
• Casemates guns rework done.

*Note: There are still some improvements for smaller caliber guns missing from France and USA. As an example, the Bofors are L/50, when in reality those guns are using an L/60 barrel.

 

Highly recommend deleting the custom save files, and campaign files to avoid any possible issues.

[MDHansen]

great work 👍

[Admiral Hipster]

You should allow Italy to also have quad turrets, there were several designs of Italian battleships and battlecruisers with quad turrets.

Here you can see some others: https://stefsap.wordpress.com/2015/11/10/general-ferratis-1915-battleship-d-serie-designs/

[o Barão]

3 minutes ago, Admiral Hipster said:

You should allow Italy to also have quad turrets, there were several designs of Italian battleships and battlecruisers with quad turrets.

Here you can see some others: https://stefsap.wordpress.com/2015/11/10/general-ferratis-1915-battleship-d-serie-designs/

I don't have a gun model for them. If the devs one day release a new quad gun model for the Italians, I will be happy to give them the quad guns.

[Astor]

Nice work so far! What will be next in line after the gun rework?

I guess it will be the early destroyers. They really need some love and diversity.

[o Barão]

55 minutes ago, Astor said:

Nice work so far! What will be next in line after the gun rework?

I guess it will be the early destroyers. They really need some love and diversity.

Good question. We are still expecting at least another major update that I will need to adapt the mod. But let's imagine for a second that there are no more updates. In that case, the order of priority is this:

• Finish the gun rework for all nations.
• Improve the early and interwar destroyers design language per nation.
• Rework many funnel stats.
• Remove all fantasy secondary towers from the game if possible.
• Fix "Experimental Dreadnought III main towers" issue. Stock game issue.
• To check if the "night" status is working in game. If yes, enable in the UI and probably give a bonus to late Japanese towers in comparison to the other nations of the same time period.
• Probably add a penalty to the floatability values to all tumblehome hulls.  A penalty for early "french" designs.
• Try to fix or improve many stats from the beam and draught slider. Stock game issue.
• If the devs failed to remove or fix the range boost issue, try to find a solution. Stock game issue.

 

After this is finish, the game will leave alpha status and will get into a beta status. The players will be free to save the designs and play the campaigns without any wipes.

• In beta, I expect:
• To fix any possible issues related to my editing.
• Tweak some hull and component stats if needed.
• Improve AI behavior in combat.
• Start working in a ship pack for all nations

 

Maybe create a Portuguese file for N.A.R. (my native language)

Edited June 16, 2023 by o Barão

[Astor]

BTW I noticed that light cruiser casemates and semi armored cruisers can't select bigger guns again.

[o Barão]

Uploaded a fix to the missing guns and secondaries from CL and DDS.

[Fangoriously]

Italian mk3 8in guns on BB/BC, both single and dual turret look like singles.

 

Austria Hungary mk4 8in gun on CA, reads as an 8/6 caliber gun and the range and fire rate are... effected.

 

French mk3 8in dual gun different model from single and triple. intentional?

 

Germany, Austria Hungary and France can build some extra spicy CLs that appear to operate on semi armored cruiser rules.

Edited June 17, 2023 by Fangoriously

[GeneralVikus]

@o Barão

I can understand your preference for a middle ground between realistic accuracy values and light entertainment. Personally, I would like to try the realistic accuracy values, although I can see the problem as the game limits time compression to a greater degree than RTW. Is it something that's easy to mod - for example, by changing the fire control values - or would I have to change every gun? 

[o Barão]

6 hours ago, Fangoriously said:

Italian mk3 8in guns on BB/BC, both single and dual turret look like singles.

 

Austria Hungary mk4 8in gun on CA, reads as an 8/6 caliber gun and the range and fire rate are... effected.

Fixed. Thanks.

6 hours ago, Fangoriously said:

French mk3 8in dual gun different model from single and triple. intentional?

Never. That is an annoying "glitch in the Matrix" that happens sometimes. What is written in the file is not what the player will see in game. Only happens with guns model editing. The solution is to copy and paste the entire original line, and then change all the guns data for that line to work the way I want. Already fixed. Thanks.

6 hours ago, Fangoriously said:

Germany, Austria Hungary and France can build some extra spicy CLs that appear to operate on semi armored cruiser rules.

I will fix those tomorrow when I have more spare time. 👍

 

Uploaded a new version with the guns reported issues fixed.

Edited June 17, 2023 by o Barão

[o Barão]

3 hours ago, GeneralVikus said:

@o Barão

Is it something that's easy to mod - for example, by changing the fire control values - or would I have to change every gun? 

The easy way is to edit the target size modifier from the "params" file. Those two modifiers (small ship and big ship) are global and will be applied to all guns.

I will offer more accuracy options for the players when I finish working in the mod. A more hardcore realism, and 2 more arcade options for a total of 4. This will please any kind of player.

The problem with realistic accuracy values in game, is that we have an annoying game mechanic, the range found boost, that will ruin any possibility to make UAD into a simulation game. So that needs to be fixed first. Until now, I didn't find a solution for this, and the devs don't see the problem with this. So this is a big problem for the players that like to play simulation games atm.

 

[Tornado1555]

(Thank you for your clarifying information on this)

[GeneralVikus]

I thought that the 'range found' bonus was a good idea - simulating, well, finding the range of the enemy ships over time. Obviously, it's massive, but the basic idea seems sound. Do you disagree? Or is it just that the size of the bonus is hardcoded? 

Forgive my ignorance, but when I searched 'param', 'parameter', and 'parameters' in my Ultimate Admiral Dreadnoughts steamapps folder, I didn't find anything. So firstly, can you tell me where to find the file, and secondly, do you have any idea of what would be a good number for the most realistic feasible result? 

[Astor]

1 hour ago, GeneralVikus said:

I thought that the 'range found' bonus was a good idea - simulating, well, finding the range of the enemy ships over time. Obviously, it's massive, but the basic idea seems sound. Do you disagree? Or is it just that the size of the bonus is hardcoded? 

Forgive my ignorance, but when I searched 'param', 'parameter', and 'parameters' in my Ultimate Admiral Dreadnoughts steamapps folder, I didn't find anything. So firstly, can you tell me where to find the file, and secondly, do you have any idea of what would be a good number for the most realistic feasible result? 

You need UABE GitHub - SeriousCache/UABE: Asset Bundle Extractor

Then you open the ressource.assets file in your Ultimate Admiral Dreadnoughts_Data folder.

There you can search in the assets part the text files like params.txt, technologies.txt and so on. You can also just search "params", it should point you to the file. Click on the file you want to edit and export it. You can edit the exported file via a text editor like Notepad++ or if you prefer CSV tables via Excel.

Do your changes, import the file back and save it.

Edited June 17, 2023 by Astor

[o Barão]

I uploaded a new version with some CL hulls fixes related to guns available to be used. I hope everything is fixed, but report any issue you can find related to my editing.  I will take a break to enjoy the weekend. ✌️

[antifleshnimbus]

Hi,

I realy like the mod so far but are a bit disapointet that the german 11 and 12 inch mkII guns have the same model than the mkI, so its impossible the rebuild the nassau, helgoland, von der tann, ... types of ships

[o Barão]

5 hours ago, GeneralVikus said:

Or is it just that the size of the bonus is hardcoded?

This. The idea is good, but the bonus is so massive that it completely ruins the simulation experience.

[o Barão]

8 hours ago, antifleshnimbus said:

Hi,

I realy like the mod so far but are a bit disapointet that the german 11 and 12 inch mkII guns have the same model than the mkI, so its impossible the rebuild the nassau, helgoland, von der tann, ... types of ships

The 11" Mk1 is not the same as the 11" Mk2. But I know what you are saying. I notice the same thing when I was reworking the German guns. But the issue is not about the Mk2 guns. The issue is about when the Mk3 variants become available. I need to do some tweaks in the research tree.

Update: Is not working. My idea was to have both guns available for the Germans in a similar time period. One possible solution is to use the gun below as 12". Not perfect. Still need to think more about this.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutschland-class_battleship#/media/File:Bundesarchiv_DVM_10_Bild-23-61-51,_Geschwader_in_Kiellinie.jpg

Edited June 17, 2023 by o Barão

[JaM]

I think accuracy of big guns at short distance (1-2km) is a bit too high.. Short range shooting should be more dependent on muzzle speed of projectile, while heavy main guns usually have relatively low muzzle velocity, which is not an issue for long range engagements.

There should be a clear distinction between direct and indirect fire, where direct fire should depends more on projectile muzzle speed, while indirect should be oriented towards gun dispersion. This way, shortening the barrels would not be the best course of action always (as it is right now), and there would be clear benefit having longer barrel guns even of smaller caliber - right now, all that tech is currently completely useless, and not worth pursuing, especially because ammo type doesn't have such drastic impact on accuracy.

 

 

 

[o Barão]

1 hour ago, JaM said:

I think accuracy of big guns at short distance (1-2km) is a bit too high..

They are more accurate, but the difference is very small and is a smooth progression. Compare that to stock game and you will notice a big difference. Also, smaller caliber guns in UAD get an accuracy bonus buff because of the high ROF. This makes perfect sense, and so in battle they will be much more accurate. So what you are saying is not happening. Just look at the example below.

12" 1.5% vs 3" 4.9%

 

1 hour ago, JaM said:

This way, shortening the barrels would not be the best course of action always (as it is right now)

This is not true. You are gaining better accuracy because of the low muzzle velocity mechanic in UAD, but you will see that happening only in short ranges. In middle and long ranges, the long barrel will still give you the better accuracy values. And then we still need to consider the other parameters: reload; weight; belt pen; deck pen; etc to say if one gun is better or not for a specific situation.

Stock gun.

-20% barrel length. Q: What is the more accurate gun at 20 km?

Now with 20% barrel length increase. Q: What is the more accurate gun at 20 km?

 

So the way it works is that you want to use short barrels and get close to the enemy, to win by having better ROF and deck pen at the same ranges, or you want to use long barrels to snipe the enemy at long ranges with much better belt pen values. Both options are possible, but you can't say one is always the better. The "time period" you are fighting, and technology available, will make a big difference.

Edited June 19, 2023 by o Barão