Incentivising players to leave the reinforcement zone

[Gregory Rainsborough]

Governments increase taxes to discourage bad habits. A fairly simple way to incentivise people to leave the safe zone is to change the taxation rates. There should be an increase in the taxes for ports in the reinforcement zone to between 50% and 100% rather than the current 10% and give player owned ports the choice of varying it between 0% and 100% rather than the current 0 to 10%. Sure, some clans of wealthy ports might take the mickey and increase taxes right up but that would also further incentivise attacks on them providing more content.

This would be further enhanced by clans being given the option to "consume Spanish goods" etc or "produce Spanish goods" to increase the consumption of or drop rates, of certain goods. This would create fluid trade routes which could then be researched and raiding. More PvP, more content etc...

 

Edited April 20, 2018 by Gregory Rainsborough

[Fenris]

 I was suggesting on several occasions to give traders non combatant status. Traders from enemy countries can be attacked. Pirates can attack traders. But that should be it.

Historically, attacking a trader without being in  a state of war, was a serious incident, which could lead into a war between nations.

On the other hand, IF a trader can not be attacked, only by a hostile fraction, there must be alliance between 2 nations...To make these work, game needs proper mechanics, and NOT the simple minded button clicking we had in the past. (Quoting myself from another thread )

Escort missions, which can be taken by players to protect traders..For example..Was suggesting this already almost 2 years ago......

And, of course @Gregory Rainsborough, taxes can do miracles.

 

[Guest]

I think a "Global Tour" could be added. You can take it in 4th or a 5th ( 6th rate when trader is needed for enemy ports). Use the appropriate ship and visit all free ports/all nation Capitol Ports on a list. The list can be tiered (10 ports visited gets a prize - 50, etc) Once all Port stamps have been collected (all ports on list visited) then the player gets a nice premium ship (Santa), 5 Million and one rare item.

Edited April 20, 2018 by Guest

[Mr Pellew]

I think punishing players to be in the safezone is a bad idea. Reward them for dealing outside the safezone. I would like it if there were more consuming ports and safezone ports consumed less/nothing to reward leaving safezones. I think giving clans more influence on port tax is a good idea even tho I feel like it should be capped at about 25%.

 

What I would love to see is more ways to motivate and reward players to leave safezones instead of punishing them for using them.

Examples would be bonuses on outside safezone crafted ships or higher probability of getting trims or extra slots. 

Another Idea I already mentioned is more consumer ports outside safezones and remove the consumer ports in the safezone. This would motivate people to trade more with outside safezone ports and incresae income of many ports. It would also allow you to enable to do two way trade routs which would make trading at least a bit more interesting

 

[Slim McSauce]

ow capture points/actual pvp missions. Not economy related, but will give pvpers something else besides ganking traders and noobs at the capital zone.

like an expansion of patrol zones

Edited April 20, 2018 by Slim McSauce

[StaleMemes]

I think that replacing/reducing admiralty missions with escort/intercept orders (and exams as the tutorial already has) would be a fun way. Have them synced up. If French admiralty orders captains to go and sink enemy shipping in the upper antilles, swedish and danish captains get orders to protect their shipping there. Make the mission require the player to be in 5th rate and below, and reward players for sinking/capturing enemy shipping OR escorting friendly ships to their destination. Make battles that start in the escort zone between frigates/merchants not allow SOLs to enter so it doesn't become a PVP zone "who has the biggest 1st rate fleet" clan slaughter fest/farming bonanza. Make it focused on more spread out, more even engagements between frigates, the goal being to protect and attack merchant shipping. (as most battles would be in real life.)

Also stop enemy AI from spawning right outside the capitals. What is a swedish trader's snow doing at Fort Royal? Make it so if you want to hunt AI you have to go into enemy territory, and then make the rewards better to counterbalance the risk.

Whats important as well is that even if the enemy doesn't show, you still have fun and still get rewarded I've sailed into the PVP zone several times in the past weeks, and only on one instance could I find someone to fight. I even announced my exact location in global and my ship type, nobody showed. All in all I spent hours in the zone for 0 gold, 500 xp and 7.3k dmg that I ended up doing in a fricken yacht fighting against a niagara. I figured if I was in a yacht, someone might want to cap it and get there ass out of someone else's PVE mission and get in the zone. Point is current PVP missions completely screw you over and give you nothing IF the enemy doesn't oblige and come out to play.
With escort and intercept orders, no matter what the enemy does, you can have fun and get rewards. If they dont show, you won't have quite as much fun, but thats made up for by the fact that you get tons of gold and marks for sinking dozens of merchant vessels.

Even better, have these spawned AI ships determine the profitability of the ports that they travel too and from, so reward clans for protecting shipping around their port.

Even better than that, have the % of merchant shipping from a port sank play be a factor in determining the size of the hostility window (as I suggested before in a huge RVR suggestion) making "octaflips" and other bs impossible. (Fastest way to get a PB would be to totally blockade a port. 

That way people would have to leave the zone if they want to keep their ports, or take enemy ones. As is you slap a timer on it and grind in the safe zone for days earning WAY more than the cost of your port. 500k is like one 5th rate fleet mission with an indefat.

My 2 cents

[John Jacob Astor]

3 hours ago, Fenris said:

 I was suggesting on several occasions to give traders non combatant status. Traders from enemy countries can be attacked. Pirates can attack traders. But that should be it.

Historically, attacking a trader without being in  a state of war, was a serious incident, which could lead into a war between nations.

On the other hand, IF a trader can not be attacked, only by a hostile fraction, there must be alliance between 2 nations...To make these work, game needs proper mechanics, and NOT the simple minded button clicking we had in the past. (Quoting myself from another thread )

Escort missions, which can be taken by players to protect traders..For example..Was suggesting this already almost 2 years ago......

And, of course @Gregory Rainsborough, taxes can do miracles.

 

Having been chased around Nassau by one or more of Mr Rainsborough's associates (Templar at least) I am going to offer a trader's perspective on this.

First of all, my complements to Templar for almost nailing my T-Lynx in a battle instance a week or so ago, while using a ship without bow chasers.  Somebody actually trapped me prior to that using a Prince.  But I digress.

This is not a gank problem and might not be a game problem.  It is not even an enemy player problem.  My opinion is that it is a clan problem, at least in part.  Traders don't need protected status.  Clans need to protect their traders.  No special mission mechanics needed.

I was doing just fine as an independent operating out of Brunswick with forays into the Bahamas for 3 to 1 commodities when the clan in question recruited me.  The line from the officer was "we want everybody to set up shop in Sandy Point to generate revenue and Nassau is a good place to go."

Oh and by the way we are going to leave the port open for raiders to hide in.  Then we are going to concentrate on doing port battles, mostly on the Florida coast.

While playing tag with you all was fun and all that, it rather distorted the my risk-reward balance.  I am back to running as an independent.

[Macjimm]

There are so many ways to encourage people to leave the reinforcement zone.

Personally I would rather trade and do business with other players than the game mechanics.  I would be happy to transport some materials, repairs or goods somewhere to assist in the war effort.  Using the text chat is one way to find out what is needed and where, but it might be easier if there was some sort of classified section posted in game.

There might be a way to create some sort of Cooperative goal that would run for a week.  Example.  Deliver certain goods to a certain port, and at the end of the week the participants with the greatest quantity of deliveries would get the highest rewards.  Or sink / capture a number of ships in a certain area, and there again the captains with the greatest amount of shipping sunk / captured would receive the greatest rewards at the end of the week.  Both of these goals would focus players into a certain area and other nations could congregate in that area, to try to prevent the deliveries or the plunder.

Group missions that involved waypoint's on a patrol route, or deliveries to several ports, could encourage people to work together and leave the reinforcement zones.  By completing the mission as a group the rewards would be much higher.

I disagree with making Traders immune to PVP.  It would just make the game less exciting and more gamey.   I like Trading and sailing:  With only risk from pirates, the game would be less interesting.  I do like the idea of friendly Nations being unable to attack each other.  

Be careful with taxes, because if the game is perceived to punish players for trading or becomes just too hard to trade, players won't just easily start fighting.  They will likely just play alot less.  

Personally anything that could be done to make sailing more engaging would encourage me to play more, and leave the reinforcement zone.  

 

Edited April 21, 2018 by Macjimm

[Slim McSauce]

All good points above. Some of this may be corrected with the new eco changes coming next patch. On the pvp side things will still need work, missions would be a great reason to go out and fight other willing participants. Multiple types of missions would be icing on the cake.

[Mr Pellew]

7 hours ago, Capt Aerobane said:

I think that replacing/reducing admiralty missions with escort/intercept orders (and exams as the tutorial already has) would be a fun way. Have them synced up. If French admiralty orders captains to go and sink enemy shipping in the upper antilles, swedish and danish captains get orders to protect their shipping there. Make the mission require the player to be in 5th rate and below, and reward players for sinking/capturing enemy shipping OR escorting friendly ships to their destination. Make battles that start in the escort zone between frigates/merchants not allow SOLs to enter so it doesn't become a PVP zone "who has the biggest 1st rate fleet" clan slaughter fest/farming bonanza. Make it focused on more spread out, more even engagements between frigates, the goal being to protect and attack merchant shipping. (as most battles would be in real life.)

Also stop enemy AI from spawning right outside the capitals. What is a swedish trader's snow doing at Fort Royal? Make it so if you want to hunt AI you have to go into enemy territory, and then make the rewards better to counterbalance the risk.

 

I very much like your idea of the escort missions and would love to see them in game in one way or another. 

I also agree with the AI spawning which seems kinda strange atm. Going to at least the edges of your terretory to kill ai seems like a mecanic that would make even the RvR system more interesting becuase people would start killing AI in border ports increasing activity there which in theory with the current hostility system would mean people are kinda ready to defend their ports whensomeone starts hostility or even make it possible for someone to at least partially flip the port by trying to kill players there. 

 

The thing I feel like has to be implemented if it ever came to no ai close to capital ports is a way to run 100% safe mission with a low reward out of capital/safezone ports. That allows casual players who just have time for half an hour toshoot some ai than log off again without getting into PvP which might take longer and get them killed. The higher rewards in OW fleets will eventually get them to go and attack OW ai making themselfs targets but it keeps the game playable for many with very little time to play and let's be honest scaring away nnew players isn't exactly good for a game with a very low playerbase. 

 

[Fenris]

9 hours ago, Marcus Corvus said:

Traders don't need protected status.  Clans need to protect their traders.  No special mission mechanics needed.

Only because there are some organised clans around, it doesn`t mean all players are in those clans.

Giving a trader a non combatant status is the only way to throw people in OW, especially those single players and smaller clans. Combined with tax increase in a capital area, a trader which is "allied" or neutral, can sail around, trade and generate profit for his domestic ports, and allied ports.

You never wonder why we have so many ports and only a few are generating decent income? Not only because they are trading ports, and have trading goods which apparently nobody wants to buy....But because trading is sometimes more dangerous than fighting.

And if your traders try to enter next enemy capital because trying to achieve maximum profit, would you "escort" them? Good luck with that.

p.s. for all those considering trader attacks as PvP.... (i have already 2 warning points)

Edited April 21, 2018 by Fenris

[Dibbler (Retired)]

 

 Thinking about it there was a better distribution of players before the safe zones over the map, first thing i was told when i started (pre safe zone) was get out of capital area.

 

Instead of safe zone perhaps make players immune to attack until they hit M+C and kill reinforcement zone altogether.

[John Jacob Astor]

5 hours ago, Fenris said:

Only because there are some organised clans around, it doesn`t mean all players are in those clans.

Giving a trader a non combatant status is the only way to throw people in OW, especially those single players and smaller clans. Combined with tax increase in a capital area, a trader which is "allied" or neutral, can sail around, trade and generate profit for his domestic ports, and allied ports.

You never wonder why we have so many ports and only a few are generating decent income? Not only because they are trading ports, and have trading goods which apparently nobody wants to buy....But because trading is sometimes more dangerous than fighting.

And if your traders try to enter next enemy capital because trying to achieve maximum profit, would you "escort" them? Good luck with that.

p.s. for all those considering trader attacks as PvP.... (i have already 2 warning points)

 

I am (yet again) a solo trader operating in the open world.  And yes, last week trading was more dangerous than fighting.   

I run a positive cash flow no-alt operation that supports expanded docks, warehouses, and level three facilities.  A good bit of the cash flow comes from open world trading.  Of my six outposts two are in the Bahamas.

But I have never needed protected status.  Even as a brand-new player.  If I wanted risk-free activity I would still be over on PvE.  But I don't insist on trying to run big-ticket Indiaman loads, which some folks seem to want to do right out the gate.  The Indiaman is mis-named in any event.  It should be called Big Fat Target.

Increasing taxes in the capital area is not a solution.   That sort of approach merely makes the economy more difficult for startup operators.  The climb is steep enough as it is.

If any incentives need to be applied it should be to get clans to pay attention to what is going on around their OW ports.  The ports ought to cost more to control.  If goods aren't moving they should be running deeply in the hole.  Clans actually attending to the raiders operating around their ports would benefit all the traders, and not just those allied to the owning clan.

 

 

Edited April 21, 2018 by Marcus Corvus
typo

[Macjimm]

8 hours ago, Marcus Corvus said:

I am (yet again) a solo trader operating in the open world.  And yes, last week trading was more dangerous than fighting.   

But I have never needed protected status.  Even as a brand-new player.  If I wanted risk-free activity I would still be over on PvE.  But I don't insist on trying to run big-ticket Indiaman loads, which some folks seem to want to do right out the gate.  The Indiaman is mis-named in any event.  It should be called Big Fat Target.

Increasing taxes in the capital area is not a solution.   That sort of approach merely makes the economy more difficult for startup operators.  The climb is steep enough as it is.

If any incentives need to be applied it should be to get clans to pay attention to what is going on around their OW ports.  The ports ought to cost more to control.  If goods aren't moving they should be running deeply in the hole.  Clans actually attending to the raiders operating around their ports would benefit all the traders, and not just those allied to the owning clan.

 

I can relate to Marcus,

I like to be on the PvP server and am okay with some risk.  As long as players can't magically appear out of nowhere, and ambush me ... unless there is fog.

Here is a repeat of what I posted in a thread about AI  lookouts.  But it seems more fitting to post it here:

Having an AI lookout that could be toggled call out sails, or land,  would be the single biggest improvement that could be made to the game.  Trading and sailing is appealing but unless scanning is maintained continuously it is very dangerous. Even a brief distraction can result in getting jumped .   I would make more long distance sails, but I get weary of continually scanning the horizon.  I don't sail AFK, cause I'm in game to make the journey.   It is interesting to track the ship's progress on a map,  using an editor and some of the Naval Action maps that have been developed.  But currently all of the navigation duties and records in the ship's log must be made in hurried quick notes, because a traders attention must never be allowed to wane.  The result is a little frantic and it gets tiring.

Having an experienced  lookout would be the wonderful addition.  Even if it was for traders only.   Traders who are sailing large slow ships would still be a risk.  For the smaller fast traders like myself, the AI lookout would be a huge improvement that would encourage me to sail farther and more often.

[Capt Jubal Early]

Reduce mission reward from capitals massively.

Increase mission rewards from other ports to similar level of loot as OW.

Maybe have a national mission "daily hotspot" IE a port that if you take missions from will grant you a extra big reward for every mission done that day. This hotspot should be seen from the mission tab at any port and should change randomly everyday between nation own ports. Rewards could be 1.5x XP and 2x/4x cash mission cash reward for completion of each.