Demasting

[Guest]

23 minutes ago, Malachy said:

The issue isn't the fact that a cannon ball can bring down part of a mast, that's fine. But the fact that you can shoot every single cannonball and hit a mast. That's not fine. That's the issue, a player can put every single ball on the same tiny little point with both platforms moving and on an unsteady sea. Never happened irl and shouldn't happen in game. And there is a world of difference between a fleet shooting and one ship.

I don't see a way to fix what you're talking about. It is possible to demast with carronades (with their absolutely terrible accuracy) if the player is skilled enough. 

If we nerf accuracy so that demasting is very difficult, good luck hitting the side of a ship at more than 250m. It'll make even basic brawling frustrating for everyone.

Changing mast thickness won't solve anything, as you can always aim at upper sections, as many people do now.

The only real thing that can be used to tune demasting is mast HP. It could be increased, but I would say it shouldn't be changed until rig repairs are limited. Since someone can instantly repair a lost mast, I see no need to make masts stronger.

[William Death]

19 minutes ago, EliteDelta said:

The only real thing that can be used to tune demasting is mast HP. It could be increased, but I would say it shouldn't be changed until rig repairs are limited. Since someone can instantly repair a lost mast, I see no need to make masts stronger.

x1000 this^

The best thing to tune demasting with is mast HP. Cannon accuracy, as you said, is something that you don't want to mess with. Nerf it too much and everyone will just go with carronades, since they will have to be up close to hit anything anyways, they might as well have some extra damage at those close ranges.

Limit the rig repairs to once or twice per battle and you can then increase mast HP. Till then, just run elite French rig refit if demasting bothers you.

Mast thickness is too much as it is already on some ships, especially if you add in a mast thickness mod.

[Malachy]

Changing the algorithm to land a cannon ball in a random 5 meter area along the aimed trajectory rather than at the exact pin point someone aims at won't change broadside effectiveness. Aiming that shot at the broadside will hit the broadside somewhere. A small randomized algorithm won't change accuracy vs the broadside armor, but would simulate the lack of pinpoint accuracy smooth bore cannons had. And firing enough balls at that area a few are bound to hit and you can still take your topmast down, but you won't be landing every single shot in a 2 centimeter area like you can now.

[Malachy]

9 hours ago, Willis PVP2 said:

x1000 this^

The best thing to tune demasting with is mast HP. Cannon accuracy, as you said, is something that you don't want to mess with. Nerf it too much and everyone will just go with carronades, since they will have to be up close to hit anything anyways, they might as well have some extra damage at those close ranges.

Limit the rig repairs to once or twice per battle and you can then increase mast HP. Till then, just run elite French rig refit if demasting bothers you.

Mast thickness is too much as it is already on some ships, especially if you add in a mast thickness mod.

I was running elite french on a Connie the other day. A single 32 lb ball took my mast down. And very few folks have elite french refits, the book is too damned rare. Hell its even hard to get parts for the regular french refit. The best solution is to tune gun accuracy. Solves all problems in one algorithm change.

a player should have a reasonably similar chance of winning a fight by going for hull damage as mast and sail damage. Right now, you can't sink someone in the same time you can have a ship crippled and boarded. Historically, sinking a ship was faster than crippling one. The french Doctorine was to hit rigging. The British was to go for the hull and sink the target, or board after wrecking the hull. The British nearly always won. I'm not advocating hull damage being the only way to win a fight, but going for hull and going for rigging should be a 50/50 gamble. Not an I win button if you go for rigging like it is now.

Edited November 24, 2017 by Malachy

[Hodo]

The solution is simple.

1- Reduce all guns accuracy by 1/4th. 

2- Remove the Gyro stabilized broadside.  If you fire and your ship begins to heel or roll, then your other guns will roll and heel with the ship throwing off the shots.

3- Remove mast repair in battle. 

 

[Guest]

13 hours ago, Intrepido said:

Without demasting, a SoL have zero chance to survive against several frigstes.

In history a SoL would be at a severe disadvantage against several frigates.

 

14 hours ago, maturin said:

 

But if you reduce the accuracy to the point that dismasting gets much harder, the game will be unplayable. So long as you can expect to get all your shots somewhere within the general silhouette of your target's rigging, masts will come down. That's how it always used to be with fleets of SoLs shooting at each other.

The game wouldn't become "unplayable".. It would however force players to start using naval tactics and perhaps - oh woes - even learn something from the period of history.

[Guest]

13 hours ago, Intrepido said:

You know well current gameplay is being tweaked. Also frigates hasnt been updated with the same sailing changes as SoL.

 

The sailing profile has nothing to do with mast thickness nor gun accuracy..

[Guest]

11 hours ago, Malachy said:

I was running elite french on a Connie the other day. A single 32 lb ball took my mast down. And very few folks have elite french refits, the book is too damned rare. Hell its even hard to get parts for the regular french refit. The best solution is to tune gun accuracy. Solves all problems in one algorithm change.

a player should have a reasonably similar chance of winning a fight by going for hull damage as mast and sail damage. Right now, you can't sink someone in the same time you can have a ship crippled and boarded. Historically, sinking a ship was faster than crippling one. The french Doctorine was to hit rigging. The British was to go for the hull and sink the target, or board after wrecking the hull. The British nearly always won. I'm not advocating hull damage being the only way to win a fight, but going for hull and going for rigging should be a 50/50 gamble. Not an I win button if you go for rigging like it is now.

The brits normally won due to numerical superiority, which dictated the french doctrine since most french frigates were raiders and most british frigates were buildt as escorts (bulkier) or counter-raiders.. The problem I have atm is that the viable tactics is again: Demast, decrew, board - rock, paper sissors. It has nothing to do with naval tactics, nor naval warfare set in the age of sails.

[Capn Rocko]

Demasting was already made 25% more difficult when we had the server wipe. If any adjustments are to be made, I would argue that it should be on a ship-by-ship basis. Or just leave it alone  

[Malachy]

3 minutes ago, Capn Rocko said:

Demasting was already made 25% more difficult when we had the server wipe. If any adjustments are to be made, I would argue that it should be on a ship-by-ship basis. Or just leave it alone  

It's no harder now than it was pre wipe. In fact it seems easier... im even doing it now and I detest that meta and was never good at it pre wipe. 

[Landsman]

On 23.11.2017 at 6:32 PM, Cornelis Tromp said:

movie =/= reality

Ikr... he had me like " Have you even seen pirates of the caribbean? Krakens and zombie pirates are real."

[Fletch]

Trying to hit a post a few feet wide with cannon from 50 yards would be hard enough on dry land let alone from a moving ship. Even then it would have to hit dead centre otherwise it would glance off the round surface..

Perhaps a hit on a mast should only have a percentage chance of  damaging it and the non damaging ones deemed to glance of the sides.

[maturin]

6 minutes ago, Fletch67 said:

Trying to hit a post a few feet wide with cannon from 50 yards would be hard enough on dry land

Smoothbore cannon are a lot more precise than people think. If you can point the gun correctly, they are more than capable of landing consistent hits on cart-sized targets at several hundred yards.

The difficulty is entirely in the movement of the ship (and thus the timing of the fuse) and the possible lack of decent sights.

[Malachy]

10 hours ago, maturin said:

Smoothbore cannon are a lot more precise than people think. If you can point the gun correctly, they are more than capable of landing consistent hits on cart-sized targets at several hundred yards.

The difficulty is entirely in the movement of the ship (and thus the timing of the fuse) and the possible lack of decent sights.

Only after a half dozen ranging shots and if the cart isn't moving. Now try that in a ship with wave action and both ships moving. 

As an aside I was in a pvp battle tonight. I took 6 top masts in 6 shots. Kinda ridiculous lol