SgtScud Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 Hi, Just got started on this game, but something that has totally confused me during gameplay and made me do mistakes in the heat of the moment is the wind compass. It shows the direction of the wind 180 degrees wrong. In meteorolgy and in nautical terms, the wind direction is always shown from where the wind is blowing, not to where it is blowing. For example a northerly wind is a wind that blows from north to south. So the arrow head on the compass should show FROM where the wind is coming. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DFX2KX Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 Hi, Just got started on this game, but something that has totally confused me during gameplay and made me do mistakes in the heat of the moment is the wind compass. It shows the direction of the wind 180 degrees wrong. In meteorolgy and in nautical terms, the wind direction is always shown from where the wind is blowing, not to where it is blowing. For example a northerly wind is a wind that blows from north to south. So the arrow head on the compass should show FROM where the wind is coming. yeahhh, I've gotten it flipped around a few times. I always think of it in terms of a weather vane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edward Vernon Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 Hi, Just got started on this game, but something that has totally confused me during gameplay and made me do mistakes in the heat of the moment is the wind compass. It shows the direction of the wind 180 degrees wrong. In meteorolgy and in nautical terms, the wind direction is always shown from where the wind is blowing, not to where it is blowing. For example a northerly wind is a wind that blows from north to south. So the arrow head on the compass should show FROM where the wind is coming. Beg to differ my friend, you are correct in your assertion about wind coming from but the display of it on any kind of instrumentation is always as the devs currently have it. Mind you they should move the ship in the middle of the compass rose and keep that North up as well if you ask me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MATANZA Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 Personally, I prefer to see WHERE is the wind blowing. It's just an UI, not some kind of meteorology device. Devs could make an option in settings to change the direction of the arrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SgtScud Posted December 23, 2014 Author Share Posted December 23, 2014 I disagree; any arrow, spoke or other depiction of a vector on a wind rose or a compass rose always implies a direction. In this case for the wind it would imply the direction the wind is coming from. DFX2KX thinks of it as a weather vane, which makes logical sense; but then they should depict it like a weather vane, not a wind rose. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MATANZA Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 So don't think about it as a wind, imagine it's a vector of the force that is pushing you in certain direction. problem = solved Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SgtScud Posted December 23, 2014 Author Share Posted December 23, 2014 Well, can we atleast agree that the current wind rose or whatever we want to call it, as depicted in the current alpha; is really confusing as it does not seem to follow any known convention (meteorological, nautical or oceanographic). Also the graphical visualization of it is not really used in its current state in the real world. When you use a rotating circle (compass) with an arrow through the center of it; then that arrow is intuitively interpreted as a compass needle; and the arrowhead shows the cardinal direction. This is what is confusing as it is today. If we could instead have something like below it would be much better. Here we place the ship in the middle, keep the arrow fixed on top and outside the circle; and rotate the ship in the middle instead. Considering how important the reading of the wind is in a game like this, then imo they should really improve this feature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edward Vernon Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 Well, can we atleast agree that the current wind rose or whatever we want to call it, as depicted in the current alpha; is really confusing as it does not seem to follow any known convention (meteorological, nautical or oceanographic). Also the graphical visualization of it is not really used in its current state in the real world. When you use a rotating circle (compass) with an arrow through the center of it; then that arrow is intuitively interpreted as a compass needle; and the arrowhead shows the cardinal direction. This is what is confusing as it is today. If we could instead have something like below it would be much better. Here we place the ship in the middle, keep the arrow fixed on top and outside the circle; and rotate the ship in the middle instead. Considering how important the reading of the wind is in a game like this, then imo they should really improve this feature. Completely disagree.....for my money the display should be consistent North up and the ship and wind vector indicators should move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SgtScud Posted December 23, 2014 Author Share Posted December 23, 2014 Yeah, not sure what you completely disagree with, some of what I said or all of it. Anyway, your display suggestion would be fine as well as long as the following is fulfilled: The directional arrow should NEVER go through the center of the windrose out and depict a wind vector as it does today. As it is today it looks like a compass needle pointing out a cardinal direction. Remove the body of the arrow and move the arrowhead 180 deg the other way. It would behove your viewpoint if you included a picture of how you would like to have it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balck Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 This was discussed here: http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/862-tacking-sequence/?p=47160 0 is north on the compass, 90 is east, 180 is south and 270 is west. This could be amended to show N,E,S,W respectively with the intermediate cardinal points, NNE, NE, ENE, etc. I was able to deduce it pretty quickly given my line of work where we work with meets and bounds and north is always 0 degrees. As to the wind direction, I see no harm on simply moving it to the opposite side, it will still point int he same direction but it may be harder to deduce the wind direction with the relation to the yards this way as you try to manually control them. I've found the current set up helpful in this regard. It's a minor issue to be honest and one which is not that difficult to adjust to. Other games have already done that which NA is doing as can be seen from this video from Age of Pirates: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MATANZA Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 I completely disagree with you, Scud. Currently you have 360 degree scale which represents the directions and an arrow representing the direction of blowing wind. How can it confuse you? It's a game UI, it doesn't have to follow any convention as long as it is intuitive. And I find its current design easy to comprehend. You have to think about people that don't have any nautical experience. They just want to have some fun while playing game like this and you shouldn't force them to learn any conventions used in real world, because it's not a real world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maturin Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 It's not intuitive if it contradicts a universal convention that many people are familiar with. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johny Reb Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 Beg to differ my friend, you are correct in your assertion about wind coming from but the display of it on any kind of instrumentation is always as the devs currently have it. Mind you they should move the ship in the middle of the compass rose and keep that North up as well if you ask me... Just plain wrong. Just about every bit of instrumentation from hand held compasses to aircraft intrumentation to vintage binnacles always have a floating compass card. North is never stationary. There may be a few exceptions out there but only very few. The only one I can think of is a "fixed card" ADF in small aircraft. Having the ship rotate and not the compass that always points north is much less intuitive imho. I've been very vocal about this in other threads. It bothers the heck out of me as it is. The arrow is not the problem though its the shaded area on the downwind side that makes me want to pull my hair out so Ill explain why in this thread as well since it is active atm. The shaded "wind arc" is confusing as it stands. many have said this already. The reason is that shaded wind arc is supposed to mean something right? What does it mean? Its a retorical question. It doesnt mean anything. The two possible meanings for it, is as a warning or as a statement of best point of sail but right now it means neither. If you point your ship into the 'wind arc' then you don't slow down because your not pointing into the wind but you also don't speed up. Going directly downwind is one of the slowest point of sail. Most of these age of sail ships will have a best point at about 135 degrees give or take so the 'wind arc' gives a false sense of purpose and will lead people astray. On the other hand you put the wind arc on the upwind side of the compass it has a true meaning. You are reaching a point of sail that you will dramatically see a drop in performance. It will catch your eye and you will notice it. It will warn you. It is also more intuitive as every age of sail game that I can think of that has a wind arc places it in this proper position. So to sum up: Rotating compass card, not stationary Arrow can stay the same or change. I don't care. The wind arc must!!! be moved to the upwind side for so many logical reasons. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MATANZA Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 It's not intuitive if it contradicts a universal convention that many people are familiar with. I'm not familiar with this convention and I can't be the only one here. I would be confused as hell at the first few moments if you reversed the arrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balck Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 So to sum up: Rotating compass card, not stationary Arrow can stay the same or change. I don't care. The wind arc must!!! be moved to the upwind side for so many logical reasons. Agreed in all respects. PS. My 2 year old daughter loves your avatar Johny. She calls it "silly teeth" and gets a kick out of seeing it every time I read one of your posts. Thought I'd share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SgtScud Posted December 23, 2014 Author Share Posted December 23, 2014 Balck; I have never played age of pirates. The arrow on that compass in the video you linked is graphically completely different from what's in this game. That arrow clearly looks like a vector (which is fine) whilst in this game the arrow looks like a compass needle. To me the main problem is that the current arrow is fixed to the rotating disc. They should detach the arrow from the disc and make it shorter and fatter. Then it would depict a vector, imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balck Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 A vector: The one element we are missing is magnitude, in our case wind speed. Not sure if this will be implemented into the game. AoP had this. In either case, it's the same concept as in AoP, NA's is just larger. It's a minor graphical issue really, one easily resolved if deemed necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SgtScud Posted December 23, 2014 Author Share Posted December 23, 2014 Balck; yes you are correct, a vector shows magnitude and direction. I was maybe a bit unclear. When I spoke of vectors I meant more like flow. Currently the arrow indicates flow. Matanza; consider a wind vane and which way it points. Google the wind vanes atop the masts on modern sailing boats, there the arrow points into the wind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SgtScud Posted December 23, 2014 Author Share Posted December 23, 2014 Beg to differ my friend, you are correct in your assertion about wind coming from but the display of it on any kind of instrumentation is always as the devs currently have it. Mind you they should move the ship in the middle of the compass rose and keep that North up as well if you ask me... Could you please provide me a link to a manufacturer of instrumentation that displays wind in the way the devs have depicted it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MATANZA Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 Weather forecast. : D I get your point. The best way to solve this would be an option to customize the UI, change the direction of the arrow if you want. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johny Reb Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 Agreed in all respects. PS. My 2 year old daughter loves your avatar Johny. She calls it "silly teeth" and gets a kick out of seeing it every time I read one of your posts. Thought I'd share Thanks for that. I was thinking of changing it. You should see the picture full size. Its pretty hideous and is not an actual picture of me lol. It is actually a picture of a women. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthernWolves Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 I have no problems with the current setup, but I can see where the argument is made for changing it. I think the best long term answer is a customizable compass with 2-3 options. For tactical communication with teammates (and for future long range navigation) I'd like a 32 point system. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SgtScud Posted December 24, 2014 Author Share Posted December 24, 2014 I have no problems with the current setup, but I can see where the argument is made for changing it. I think the best long term answer is a customizable compass with 2-3 options. For tactical communication with teammates (and for future long range navigation) I'd like a 32 point system. Well said, I don't think there's too much else to add to this subject. A customizable compass UI would satisfy both the armchair mariner and the gamer alike. Hopefully the devs picks up on this in a future release. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlouBulle Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 Wind wasn't displayed on the compass so it can be displayed however the devs want. Compass can have degrees (many naval ones of the era did in fact) however it should also have basic bearings e.g.: N S E W NEE etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johny Reb Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 Agreed, a customizable ui would solve the debate and choosing one depiction over another will in no way give advantage to one player over another like being able to turn off the cannon smoke would so I'm all for it. If the devs won't do this eventually then I think its time for them to bring back the options they gave us in the testing forum some time ago and let us discuss and vote on it again now that we have a larger active player base. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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