PvP Event Feedback

[TommyShelby]

Just now, admin said:

Let me understand  if i understand you correctly. 

Your enemy is sailing a 15 man fleet (10 ships of the line and 5 tacklers). You don't want to bring 15 ships to sink them a somewhat equal battle. But instead you want developers to find a way to split their group.

If OCEAN had 15 ships online sure, we would engage. 

But you know, as stated we don't have that anymore since good OW PvP is gone. :/

I'm merely suggesting that something is done to incentivize good PvP rather than ganking... Less points awarded for a gank seems fair does it not? People can still choose to gank if they so wish.

[admin]

5 minutes ago, van der Decken said:

We go back to the problem that ppl won't risk their 1st rates unless they know they have the numbers. Nothing sucks more than have 5 1st rate fleet cuz that's all you can muster, and then getting ganked by a nation who brings 10 more ships than you. I do think either a BR block would help, but I prefer it be changed to counting BR as points, and/or like the above mentioned, if you're in a higher BR killing lower BR then you get only half the points and if in lower BR killing higher BR then double the points....or some % difference.

Player "Captain reverse" and several other players are constantly on the pvp leaderboards and i know for a fact they mostly sail solo or in small group. 
 

[SteelSandwich]

Admin, the point Tommy is making is shared by quite some pvp'ers.

 

If you sail with 4 people, you will either encounter enemies with 1 or 2 ships, or you encounter a patrol fleet of 15 1st rates.

There rarely is a fleet of equal fighting chance sailing to meet you.

 

Where is the incentive for both parties to engage at a 1:1 or 1:1,5 BR instead of a 3:1 or 4:1

[TommyShelby]

Just now, Hodo said:

No offense but this is not an issue for the developers.  But an issue with your recruiting and retention.  

It maybe related to game play issues but that should be in a different topic.  

Ehm. It is a choice we have made. 
We don't care if we have 200 people or 20 people. We want good PvP'ers that like good PvP and don't gank. 
We had that, 15 of them. We had fun every night, getting into fights where both sides had a fighting chance. 
Since the "Hostility/Fine Wood" we haven't been able to get those fights. Therefore we have pretty much all stopped playing for now. 
I and a few others popped on to try the event and what we saw was: Sail in Yuuuge fleets, gank stuff, win. 
 

[admin]

52 minutes ago, SteelSandwich said:

Admin, the point Tommy is making is shared by quite some pvp'ers.

 

If you sail with 4 people, you will either encounter enemies with 1 or 2 ships, or you encounter a patrol fleet of 15 1st rates.

There rarely is a fleet of equal fighting chance sailing to meet you.

 

Where is the incentive for both parties to engage at a 1:1 or 1:1,5 BR instead of a 3:1 or 4:1

1. Ganking: Was considered a problem when there were 300 people online. It was considered a problem when there were 3000 people online, It is still considered a problem.
2. Running: People were running from fair engagements in early instanced sea trials until battle circle of death was added. They still run from them. 

Its a sandbox We know it , You know it, Everyone knows it. You cant solve the problem with incentives. Because people fight or run for fun not because of incentives.

 

 

1 hour ago, Ellis said:

I think something this event really needs or at least would be good grounds for testing would be a sort of gank deterrent.

Proposal: if in a battle you have x times more br then what your are attacking then you receive x times less points and xp. For example if you and your friend in 2 trincs attack 1 trinc then you get half the xp and event points.

Most people I see in the event zones are rear admirals. No-one cares about money or XP. 

[Daguse]

10 minutes ago, admin said:

 

 

1. Ganking: Was considered a problem when there were 300 people online. It was considered a problem when there were 3000 people online, It is still considered a problem.
2. Running: People were running from fair engagements in early instanced sea trials until battle circle of death was added. They still run from them. 

Its a sandbox We know it , You know it, Everyone knows it. You cant solve the problem with incentives. Because people fight or run for fun not because of incentives.

 

what about just setting it so battles in side the event are 1:1 only?  

I know it was discuses and the current system was opted for, however I would prefer if it was like the small/large battles. Had its own waiting room, BR balancing could be done at that time, it would ensure a relatively fair fight. 

[elite92]

Just now, Daguse said:

what about just setting it so battles in side the event are 1:1 only?  

I know it was discuses and the current system was opted for, however I would prefer if it was like the small/large battles. Had its own waiting room, BR balancing could be done at that time, it would ensure a relatively fair fight. 

i have already asked several time to admin to add a small battle daily event with the same prizes and ladder as ow event, with a br balance between all the partecipants just like others small battles, only 1 lobby event per day wont hurt ow only players and will make happier people like me that want fair fight, no gank, no run, no time lose.

but they seems to ignore me

[Daguse]

16 minutes ago, elite92 said:

 

 

i have already asked several time to admin to add a small battle daily event with the same prizes and ladder as ow event, with a br balance between all the partecipants just like others small battles, only 1 lobby event per day wont hurt ow only players and will make happier people like me that want fair fight, no gank, no run, no time lose.

but they seems to ignore me

I know they don't want to pull players out of the OW, I understand an commend that. However this goes back to what player types, have what impact.

PVP players (the wolfs) will always attack anyone. They want PVP now, for them, give them WOWs with tall ships they are happy.  However the Sheep and the Sheepdogs are the ones that want the OW. They want to do PVE, and if a Sheepdog thinks a sheep is going to get attacked, he'll PVP.

So if they want more people on the water, they need a reason for players to sail out of their home ports and in to enemy waters (missions, trade, what ever it is). However its got to be worth their time and the risk, the rewards have to be their. 

Once the Sheep and the Sheepdogs are on the water, the Wolfs have something to hunt. 

The PVP event is awesome, its fun, and I love it. But it does nothing to get the Sheep and the Sheepdogs on the water. 

Edited December 9, 2016 by Daguse

[admin]

14 minutes ago, Daguse said:

what about just setting it so battles in side the event are 1:1 only?  

I know it was discuses and the current system was opted for, however I would prefer if it was like the small/large battles. Had its own waiting room, BR balancing could be done at that time, it would ensure a relatively fair fight. 

What about another group? the one with 10 ships whats their fault? They did everything right based on military books, concentrated the force/avoided fair fights/split enemies and won?.

Rookie zone has enforced 300 BR limit. Why people who want equal fair fights (at least in light ships) are not there?

[Daguse]

10 minutes ago, admin said:

 

 

What about another group? the one with 10 ships whats their fault? 
Rookie zone has enforced 300 BR limit. Why people who want equal fair fights (at least in light ships) are not there?

I agree it is not their fault, just as it is not the lone guys fault for wanting to fight but not having 9 other friends on. This is were the lobby system could help. 

As for the Rookie zone and players not fighting there... They do, but they don't have the focal point that the even does... the event brings people into a small circle and rewards them for winning. The Rookie zone just caps the br. Hell the other day I got attacked and escaped two Spanish players just out side the event zone. 2 other us plays saw it and came to add me. one we knew we where out side of the even we all just whet our own way. Why fight so close to a reward and get nothing? 

Edited December 9, 2016 by Daguse

[elite92]

10 minutes ago, admin said:

What about another group? the one with 10 ships whats their fault? 
Rookie zone has enforced 300 BR limit. Why people who want equal fair fights (at least in light ships) are not there?

fellvred's small battle daily event was a real success! pls bring it back now as a lobby pvp event with rewards.

no open world problems, no gank, no run. only pure fun with equal fight

Edited December 9, 2016 by elite92

[Cecil Selous]

Honor or reputation points as a multiplicator for the obtained PVP points. It is 1 if it is an even battle. Gankers, who always look for the 5:1 get a multiplicator of 0.5 on their obtained 2000 points and a player who fought 3 battles during the PVP event and sank 4 other ships while he was always outnumbered 4:1 gets a multiplicator of 3 or something like that (numbers are just examples). You need some sort of calculation/equation and the some conditions which determine the multiplicator.

Edited December 9, 2016 by Cecil Selous

[admin]

12 minutes ago, elite92 said:

i have already asked several time to admin to add a small battle daily event with the same prizes and ladder as ow event, with a br balance between all the partecipants just like others small battles, only 1 lobby event per day wont hurt ow only players and will make happier people like me that want fair fight, no gank, no run, no time lose.

but they seems to ignore me

We are focused on tuning OW right now. And have no plans to remove players to lobby pvp at this stage of Open world testing. We know lobby based tournaments will be popular and only plan to add them after release. 

OW events are fun, unstructured, random and never the same. If you come en force and enemy comes en force they are awesome. You should try bringing a mixed lineship/3rd rate fleet next deep water event. Enemies will be there. 

[admin]

2 minutes ago, Cecil Selous said:

Honor or reputation points as a multiplicator for the obtained PVP points. It is 1 if it is an even battle. Gankers, who always look for the 5:1 get a multiplicator of 0.5 on their obtained 2000 points and a player who fought 3 battles during the PVP event and sank 4 other ships while he was always outnumbered 4:1 gets a multiplicator of 3 or something like that. You need a calculation for that to determine the multiplicator.

Are we talking about NOW? or some day in the future where we can tie some ships to honor rating after wipes?

Multiplier exists but its switched off. Any multiplier will be exploited. Its going to be impossible to catch those people. You forget human nature again. Just ask 5 friends to attack you sink  one of them to get 5x rewards.

[Daguse]

8 minutes ago, admin said:

 

 

We are focused on tuning OW right now. And have no plans to remove players to lobby pvp at this stage of Open world testing. We know lobby based tournaments will be popular and only plan to add them after release. 

OW events are fun, unstructured, random and never the same. 

I have to say I'm very happy to hear all of this admin! OW does need to be the focus right now. 

Can I recommend you take a look at this topic. I think it would an awesome idea. 

 

Edited December 9, 2016 by Daguse

[Cecil Selous]

Just now, admin said:

Are we talking about NOW? or some day in the future where we can tie some ships to honor rating after wipes?

Any multiplier will be exploited. Its going to be impossible to catch those people. You forget human nature again. 

Just for the PVP event. It was just a quick thought. But you are right about the human nature though.

[TommyShelby]

48 minutes ago, admin said:

1. Ganking: Was considered a problem when there were 300 people online. It was considered a problem when there were 3000 people online, It is still considered a problem.
2. Running: People were running from fair engagements in early instanced sea trials until battle circle of death was added. They still run from them. 

Its a sandbox We know it , You know it, Everyone knows it. You cant solve the problem with incentives. Because people fight or run for fun not because of incentives.

Even then, before the Hostility/Fine Woods patch it was never a problem to find relatively even fights. Heck, we used to have several relatively even fights every night before that. 
And we fought US, Pirates, Dutch and British.

Hell, even in the very early days of Open World when we had 50-150 players online we still had an easy time finding relatively even fights. 

Something changed and you know that as well as i do. 

 

19 minutes ago, admin said:

What about another group? the one with 10 ships whats their fault? They did everything right based on military books, concentrated the force/avoided fair fights/split enemies and won?.

Rookie zone has enforced 300 BR limit. Why people who want equal fair fights (at least in light ships) are not there?

I, and most of the guys i play with, like Frigate Type ships, 5th rates being the favorite ships followed by 4th rates. 
We can't use those ships in the Rookie Zone so we don't go there.

Right now the PvP event is all about bringing the biggest most badass ships, preferably in a huge fleet. 
Small groups/solo players need an extraordinary amount of luck to find enough good fights that they will get on the leaderboard. 
(Maybe i'm wrong, i only logged in for 2 events. Spent 4 hours, had 1 good fight..) 

So yeah. Just tell me straight:
- Are you going to try and "revive" the great OW PvP that we used to be able to find? (Solo, Small and Large groups alike?). 
- Or will the game only cater to yuuuge clans and people that like "Trafalgar" battles? 
 

Edited December 9, 2016 by TommyShelby

[Corona Lisa]

13 minutes ago, TommyShelby said:

Right now the PvP event is all about bringing the biggest most badass ships, preferably in a huge fleet. 
Small groups/solo players need an extraordinary amount of luck to find enough good fights that they will get on the leaderboard. 
(Maybe i'm wrong, i only logged in for 2 events. Spent 4 hours, had 1 good fight..) 

I played deep water 4 times now, 3 of them solo. I was on the leaderboards every single time.

Imo most people there are either solo or in small groups (2-5 player), so the chances to find a good fight arent that bad.

You use 5th rate and the circle isnt that huge. So when you see a big fleet (most of the time there is just one big fleet) why not avoid them by going out of the circle and look 5 minutes to find a better fight?

Most players who get picked off are either not focussed whats coming at them or are in the middle of the circle. And even if it happens, just surrender so they get no points and start fresh. 5th rates are not expensive.

 

Edited December 9, 2016 by JonSnowLetsGo

[TommyShelby]

Just now, JonSnowLetsGo said:

I played deep water 4 times now, 3 of them solo. I was on the leaderboards every single time. I think most people there are either solo or in small groups (2-5 player) and one big fleet (2nd day it was MAC, next day HRE, next day frenchies). You use 5th rate and the circle isnt that huge. So when you see a big fleet why not avoid them by going out of the circle and look 5 minutes to find a better fight?

Most players who get picked off are either not focussed whats coming at them or are in the middle of the circle. And even if it happens, just surrender so they get no points and start fresh. 5th rates are not expensive.

 

You know, that is actually what we did. We spent most of our time running from big fleets with SoL. 
I'm surprised you think i'm that stupid but alright. 

I was ganked 1 time when i was Solo today. The rest of the time i/we have been able to get away from the big fleets. N

You must be lucky or i/we must be very unlucky since we didn't get more than 1 decent fight in the 4 hours we spent in the event zone.

[Corona Lisa]

2 minutes ago, TommyShelby said:

You know, that is actually what we did. We spent most of our time running from big fleets with SoL. 
I'm surprised you think i'm that stupid but alright. 

I dont think you are stupid lol, I just dont see more than one big SoL fleet in the whole circle at a time, so im not sure what you are running from.

[TommyShelby]

Just now, JonSnowLetsGo said:

I dont think you are stupid lol, I just dont see more than one big SoL fleet in the whole circle at a time, so im not sure what you are running from.

Well, we saw 2 yuuge Pirate Fleets with SoL. And ofcourse 1 French and 1 Swedish. And yeah, the pirate fleets chased us for about 40 minutes in total. 

The Swedish fleet actually engaged one of the pirate fleets and we were dragged into the fight. But there was like 20 Swedes vs 8 or so Pirates. We left to make it more fun for everyone. 

[Corona Lisa]

Yea there are definitely too many pirates in that zone^^

Maybe thats why I have different POV about this

[TommyShelby]

Just now, JonSnowLetsGo said:

Yea there are definitely too many pirates in that zone^^

Maybe thats why I have different POV about this

Maybe! But to be fair i saw just as many nationals, though most were from the Danish/Swedish/French/Spanish alliance. 

Perhaps i/we have just been very unlucky. You seem to have very different experience than me so i will try one or two more times to see if it was just me being unlucky. 

[admin]

53 minutes ago, elite92 said:

fellvred's small battle daily event was a real success! pls bring it back now as a lobby pvp event with rewards.

no open world problems, no gank, no run. only pure fun with equal fight

 

48 minutes ago, Daguse said:

I have to say I'm very happy to hear all of this admin! OW does need to be the focus right now. 

 

Fair battles with leader boards and prizes will be extremely popular. We want to finish unfinished things first. Those don't need testing - they will be awesome. 

[admin]

1 hour ago, TommyShelby said:

Hell, even in the very early days of Open World when we had 50-150 players online we still had an easy time finding relatively even fights. 

Something changed and you know that as well as i do. 

So yeah. Just tell me straight:
- Are you going to try and "revive" the great OW PvP that we used to be able to find? (Solo, Small and Large groups alike?). 
- Or will the game only cater to yuuuge clans and people that like "Trafalgar" battles? 
 

Nothing changed PVP wise. Fine woods/hostility never concerned small groups. In the old times you talk about - people took effort in arranging fair fights for varied groups and its the point of my question to you below (in the last sentence).

Regarding you question. You are talking about 2 different games. 

1. Sandbox/Wargame = biggest club wins - the great pvp is to crush the enemy and hear lamentations of their women in chat. In wargames if someone got into a fair fight that means tactical mistakes were made elsewhere. So if someone could arrange, organize and train 25 people they deserve credit. It does not mean its unfair. They just could and someone else could not. We know for a fact your alliance can man 25 ships at prime time events.
2. Tournament style varied group olympics and para-olympics is a different game and can be already arranged somewhat from the lobby. That style of gameplay does not require testing and tuning. Its a proven WOWS/WOT/ any other moba format. We understand some veteran's desire to find quick action sometimes and know how to solve it. But current EA is about OW. 

These two types of games dont mix and will never mix. You know it. We know it. Everyone knows it. The only solution is to make everyone sail cerberus and make all battles 1v1 on the open world.

Your statement  - "make it fun for a 3 ship group (those 15 men groups are killing ow)" is kind of one sided to me.

We understand and support your desire to provide fun for a 2-3 man group by somehow enforcing 3v3. That 15 men group you call gankers also has the same problem. They don't want to sail separately too and don't want to split just for you. If it is brutally forced and shoved into throats you know what will happen? That 15 ship group you are talking about will split and will leave because they are 15 friends too, leaving you completely alone. 

BTW. What stops you from arranging a 5v5 club somewhere around La Desirade or Hat Island? Ocean clan can support prizes and such and have your own rules. many will participate.