Curing the Black Plague bug

[Skully]

For those looking to suggest, comment or flame on Pirate mechanics, there is http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/14245-pirate-mechanics-suggestions-collection-thread/. I also do not want to get side-tracked as in http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/13995-going-pirate-going-national/ .

 

This topic is purely about the Black Plague bug. And we are going for a simple yes or no.

 

Right now you can turn Pirate without too much hassle and not lose any asset or blueprint. As I said on http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/14165-the-betrayal-of-the-ausez-to-the-british-empire/?p=264990 "People say it is easy to switch to Pirate. I would phrase this as, it is not hard to switch to Pirate."

 

Now we do have the immigration office to help out folks to switch Nations. http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/14518-the-imigration-office/

But at the end of the day, Nations are "punished" by not having the ability to allow players in at the same conditions folks can join the Pirates. And that is the Black Plague bug.

 

I'm not talking about what kind of potential penalties we want to impose on switching to Pirates (or any other enemy Nation). Nor do I want to address the final method of switching to a Nation yet.

But since switching to Pirate is a very easy affair, I would say that for now switching to a Nation should be just sailing into their capital and ask for a pardon. Nothing fancy, just as "easy" as turning Pirate.

 

The goal is:

1. First and foremost we must cure the Black Plague!

Edited June 8, 2016 by Henry d'Esterre Darby
Removed unnecessary poll.

[Jack Frost]

Admin statement on the matter, post #151

http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/14397-nations-should-rally-against-the-pirates-before-its-too-late/page-8

[Skully]

http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/14397-nations-should-rally-against-the-pirates-before-its-too-late/?p=267534

 

Good catch, but I think this needs to happen pre-release. If we are to test some mechanism post-release. Or even not have a mechanism, then we are screwed and the Black Plague will rage on.

[Jack Frost]

IMO it's not as much about switching pirate or back. If pirate mechanics are changed there will be another nations that blobs the map. There will always be people that switch to the winning side. It's mostly a port mechanic issue, wich they are working on as we speak. If you think being a pirate is easy mode then i'd like to see you switch to a nation to make a challange for yourself.

 

You only need 1 person (or alt with pc) to switch a nation, only losing blueprints and a little port unlock gold. Nothing major at all.

A mechanic needs to be made at some point for sure, it's for me personally just not an priority

Edited June 8, 2016 by Jack Frost

[Bommel]

You only need 1 person (or alt with pc) to switch a nation, only losing blueprints and a little port unlock gold. Nothing major at all.

A mechanic needs to be made at some point for sure, it's for me personally just not an priority

That´s exactly what the major annoyances for all players who wants to switch nation to anything else then pirates is, they will have to grind again for all the blueprints...

 

No comment so far on this point from any devs. 

If you want to keep your BPs there is only one nation you can join...and devs simply ignore it (read: not commenting on that point at all).

There would be an easy fix: Just turn of the ability to turn pirate in two clicks. As stated before several times.

[GrapeShot]

That´s exactly what the major annoyances for all players who wants to switch nation to anything else then pirates is, they will have to grind again for all the blueprints...

No comment so far on this point from any devs.

If you want to keep your BPs there is only one nation you can join...and devs simply ignore it (read: not commenting on that point at all).

There would be an easy fix: Just turn of the ability to turn pirate in two clicks. As stated before several times.

Now, now, cut 'em some slack. They're too busy adding such vital features as food supplies to have time to repond to the pirate issue that has been raised again and again over the last several months.

Now upon release something will happen? Whatever.

[Jack Frost]

Now, now, cut 'em some slack. They're too busy adding such vital features as food supplies to have time to repond to the pirate issue that has been raised again and again over the last several months.

Now upon release something will happen? Whatever.

 

People keep telling themselves the problem lies with pirates mechanics, while right now the pirate have no single advantage over any nation. Smuggler option made the playing field equal.

Yes players go pirate when their nation get's wrecked. When they change the pirates, there WILL be another dominant nation to whom players will flee.

The delete/switch might cost a little more, it will still happen.

 

Wishful thinking. The devs wasted time working on short time goals that the community requested, like the waiting lists we requested after steam EA launch. I'm glad they are not making the same mistake again.

Edited June 8, 2016 by Jack Frost

[Cpt Blackthorne]

I made a suggest last week about players going to other nations asking for a Letter of Marque or to change their Citizenship. This would be a national vote, or a vote by the new Parliament/Rulers that will be implemented in the Politics/Diplomacy patch.

I would suggest these nationality changes should be recorded and held in player history so that those voting to let new citizens in can decide based on whether the player is just a Nation Hopper.

[Bommel]

 

 

People keep telling themselves the problem lies with pirates mechanics, while right now the pirate have no single advantage over any nation. Smuggler option made the playing field equal.

Yes players go pirate when their nation get's wrecked. When they change the pirates, there WILL be another dominant nation to whom players will flee.

The delete/switch might cost a little more, it will still happen.

 

Wishful thinking. The devs wasted time working on short time goals that the community requested, like the waiting lists we requested after steam EA launch. I'm glad they are not making the same mistake again.

 

I don´t think the pirates are broken...

And I don´t see any argument of Grapeshot that leads to others thinking he might think they are broken too...

 

So why do you come up with "pirates are broken" counter arguments?

[Skully]

So why do you come up with "pirates are broken" counter arguments?

If you want an answer to that question, please go to the http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/14245-pirate-mechanics-suggestions-collection-thread/ topic.

 

In here I only want to see a relative simple and potentially temporary cure for the Black Plague bug.

 

PS. What was wrong with the poll? I did not intend to create redundant poll, nor would I like to create more redundant polls in the future.

Edited June 9, 2016 by Skully

[la Touche-Treville]

Well since we are in early access mode, and that the devs have stated that they made it easy to switch to pirate mode for testing purpose, why not let pirates switch to a nation in much the same way?

This would be an easy and quick fix that would help rebalance the nation numbers no? And give the devs a more balanced map for early access testing

 

And if devs even want to consider putting any time and effort into this, they could implement a 'bonus/malus modifier' based on the nation the pirate is  switching to.

Idea would be to discourage pirates moving to the highest populated nation by making a price to pay proportional with the attractiveness of a nation.

 

i.e. Join Britain, highest population non pirate nation: Cost=500 000 gold and loose 2 ranks

      Join Sweden, lowest population non pirate nation: Cost=20 000 gold, no lost rank

 

My 2 cents....

[Fastidius]

don't stress pirate changes will happen but i dont thonk its likely for 2 months...its at least a month till democracy and port battles

[Bommel]

If you want an answer to that question, please go to the http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/14245-pirate-mechanics-suggestions-collection-thread/ topic.

 

 

Did you even read my post? And the post of the guys before?

That question wasn´t directed at you, and you tell me that I have to go to the suggestion thread, when I quote a guy in this thread and ask him to explain why he comes up with certain arguments?

 

 

 

In here I only want to see a relative simple and potentially temporary cure for the Black Plague bug.

 

That´s what I did.

[Hethwill]

There's a better solution.

 

Exile all Pirate nation to Sommerset, strip them from their belongings, let them only play the Pickle and the Brig. Give Pirate ports to France, Sweden and US, in equal measure. ( hush brit and dutch puppies, too much yalping already )

 

Oh ! and if they are sunk or captured they go back to zero, aka DayZ. AH ! I can feel a smile under that thick bark of yours.

 

That would make you "gentlemen" happy.

[Eishen]

There's a better solution.

 

Exile all Pirate nation to Sommerset, strip them from their belongings, let them only play the Pickle and the Brig. Give Pirate ports to France, Sweden and US, in equal measure. ( hush brit and dutch puppies, too much yalping already )

 

Oh ! and if they are sunk or captured they go back to zero, aka DayZ. AH ! I can feel a smile under that thick bark of yours.

 

That would make you "gentlemen" happy.

 

A pickle is too noble for your  kin..... the gallows pole is your only legitime position ! ...

 

 

 

For those looking to suggest, comment or flame on Pirate mechanics, there is http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/14245-pirate-mechanics-suggestions-collection-thread/. I also do not want to get side-tracked as in http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/13995-going-pirate-going-national/ .

 

 

 

good attemp....but writing pirate now is asking for  it    .....   

 

In a more serious mode..... cannot see urgency making a fix who only have a minor impact on play balance when a game is in testing...much more when a fully rebuild of piracy is on the desk

[Skully]

So far the only on topic reply I have seen is from Jack Frost and la Touche-Treville, They others are just rants over the Pirate mechanics or simply stating Pirate mechanics are going to change.

 

This topic is only about the Black Plague bug, which is: there must be an in game mechanism for changing Nations that is on equal level of turning Pirate.

 

Anything else, please take it to http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/14245-pirate-mechanics-suggestions-collection-thread/

[Skully]

Well since we are in early access mode, and that the devs have stated that they made it easy to switch to pirate mode for testing purpose, why not let pirates switch to a nation in much the same way?

This would be an easy and quick fix that would help rebalance the nation numbers no? And give the devs a more balanced map for early access testing

 

And if devs even want to consider putting any time and effort into this, they could implement a 'bonus/malus modifier' based on the nation the pirate is  switching to.

Idea would be to discourage pirates moving to the highest populated nation by making a price to pay proportional with the attractiveness of a nation.

 

i.e. Join Britain, highest population non pirate nation: Cost=500 000 gold and loose 2 ranks

      Join Sweden, lowest population non pirate nation: Cost=20 000 gold, no lost rank

 

My 2 cents....

 

Or even go as far as to say that low population nations are actively hiring and thus pay out on "pardons". This would effectively be similar to hiring privateers and gives them the flag.

[Hethwill]

There are so many good suggestions everywhere, snippets not wall length suggestions mind you.

 

Obviously the nation change state is going to be levelled. It is a phase and a legacy.

 

The entire thing is to make pirates viable for, in my opinion:

 

- population. 100 versus 1000, being 100 the historical amount of ships pirating from new providence versus possible 1000 in the virtual historical world.

 

- social. there can be no social barriers. it is a communal game. multiplayer. You cannot stop people from playing together.

 

- for every negative trait there must be a positive trait.

 

Pirates as a choice must be as valid as choosing a Nation navy.

[Skully]

In a more serious mode..... cannot see urgency making a fix who only have a minor impact on play balance when a game is in testing...much more when a fully rebuild of piracy is on the desk

The only urgency is getting people to realize that fixing the Black Plague bug is not part of the Pirate rebuild. If at the end of the day players can only go one way, then that is your end game for every player.

[Bommel]

So far the only on topic reply I have seen is from Jack Frost and la Touche-Treville, They others are just rants over the Pirate mechanics or simply stating Pirate mechanics are going to change.

 

This topic is only about the Black Plague bug, which is: there must be an in game mechanism for changing Nations that is on equal level of turning Pirate.

 

Anything else, please take it to http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/14245-pirate-mechanics-suggestions-collection-thread/

 

Now I´m pretty sure you don´t read all the posts...

[Hethwill]

Yeah... the grass is very green on this side.

 

Look at the main reasons why people go Pirate and less to the helping mechanics.

 

The reasons why people leave a nation tell more about the root of the problem.

 

- very little pvp

- or very little pve !

- acid nation councils and arrogant communities ( clans )

- etc

 

There are also a lot of pirates which just wanted to try a more self imposed harder gameplay.

 

The mechanic just makes it easier but there's also examples of changing to other nations other than pirates.

[Skully]

Ah yep, sorry about.

That´s exactly what the major annoyances for all players who wants to switch nation to anything else then pirates is, they will have to grind again for all the blueprints...

 

No comment so far on this point from any devs. 

If you want to keep your BPs there is only one nation you can join...and devs simply ignore it (read: not commenting on that point at all).

There would be an easy fix: Just turn of the ability to turn pirate in two clicks. As stated before several times.

Two things I personally don't like revoking the ability to turn Pirate:

1. The damage has already been done.
2. It makes playing your starting Nation also your end game. The game should not box-in a player like that.

There can be various reasons for a player to consider changing nation and that option should just be there. (Keeping the actual cost/benefit out of the picture for the moment.)

[Bommel]

1. The damage has already been done.
2. It makes playing your starting Nation also your end game. The game should not box-in a player like that.

 

1. very true

2. you wouldn´t be boxed-in or trapped in any nation, you would still be able to switch nations, the only difference would be that you would suffer the same consequences when turning pirate.

 

I didn´t mean they should make it impossible to turn pirate, they should just remove the ability to turn pirate by attacking a friendly.

Maybe the blueprints should be tied to our Steam Account too.

[Eishen]

 

- acid nation councils and arrogant communities ( clans )

....

 ....

There are also a lot of pirates which just wanted to try a more self imposed harder gameplay.

 

 

 

In my opinion other than aesthetical reasons -black fits fantastic you know, and having skulls in flags is sooooooo cool-   the principal siren´s call of pirate life lies in  the one mechanic designed to be his problem..... the ability of combat between them..

 

I am not speaking of the use and abuse of mechanics to enter fake battles (It had its appeal for some people but now you can do this in any nation) but the ability of really solving opinion diferences by plain combat...."arrogant communities" tend to be not so arrogant if they do not have forced friends.

 

so ... in the current pirate I find very hard to see where the "self imposed harder gameplay" comes from 

 

I want this to be removed , no way...I want pirates to be more unique, with their own pros and cons.... so no little ammends, fixes or pre-patches

[Potemkin]

Agreed on the "damage is done" part. To have the desired effect any changes to pirates will need to either encourage or force players to leave the pirate faction and start over or we will be at this crossroads again. This will only lead to fewer players for the time being assuming there will be future influxes of players. You have to assume a percentage of displaced players will have no interest in starting over. Be careful what you wish for. That being said, any changes should come sooner than later or at the very least new players choosing a faction should be informed of any impending rework to minimize butthurt when the changes do eventually come.

Edited June 9, 2016 by Potemkin