Period Ships - Can we sail ships from earlier periods in late period?

[Destraex]

Before I begin let me assure you that I do know that ships lasted a very long time. Some being in service for more than 100years.

However some old ships did have timber that was weaker and more easily penetrated than newer ones. Larger ships generally had thicker sides as well 

from what I am lead to understand.

 

Now with that out of the way. In game - scenarios or open warfare - will I be seeing 16th Century to the end of Napoleonic Wars all mixed together?

For instance will I see Sir Francis Drake and those useless 16c canon go up against Nelson's HMS victory? The same as the richly decorated early 1700s ships

would look a little silly vs Nelsons 3 deckers.

 

Because this would look infernally silly?

[Feretier]

This question as already been discuss somewhere on the forum and i have to say that i can't really figured out, i'm a bit worried myself.

I guess early models blueprints will be our "starter" ships, and we will have to "research" or "find" the newer models, well i have no idea.

[Destraex]

Well if we are playing scenarios will we be taking our customised ships that fit the period or just any ship we like?

I will have to look harder if it is being discussed elsewhere.

[Mirones]

the main timeline for ships is 1670 to 1820 +-5  

 

there isnt much information how it will be in the end it all depends on what the players/comunity wants in the end.

 

i like the early ships more than the later ones since at the end of 1820 they only look like only purpus build warships no dekoration or any large status of showing the pride of the nation.

or should i said more sterilized.

[akd]

Heh. Taste is taste. I love the look of later ships, plus they were more refined instruments of war in every way. Better sailers, better guns, more seaworthy, on and on. I hope the developers will not attempt to achieve some sort of artificial balance between the early ships and later ships. The looks of early ships (aside from superficial decoration, of course) often translate directly into poorer sailing qualities and bad gun setups.

[Feretier]

Heh. Taste is taste. I love the look of later ships, plus they were more refined instruments of war in every way. Better sailers, better guns, more seaworthy, on and on. I hope the developers will not attempt to achieve some sort of artificial balance between the early ships and later ships. The looks of early ships (aside from superficial decoration, of course) often translate directly into poorer sailing qualities and bad gun setups.

I agree but how can you balance a 1670+- ship vs a 1820+-, other than that with some sort of "artificial balance"? Ok we will be able to fit our ships "as you want" to but... still, a heavy fat heavily decorated ship of the line vs a more modern one will be unbalance , despite players skills.

On the other hand ships will have unique sailing/combat specificities as far as i can understand, meaning we can find an advantage somewhere vs a better ship.

As Mirones said, we don't know what the devs have in mind ( do they ? so i guess we can only speculate and/or build something that can work in a open world game.

[maturin]

The devs indeed said 1670-1820, but haven't actually shown any signs of building anything that would look out of place in 1800.

[Mirones]

honsetly i would have no problem sailing past an old spainish galleon in my more modern Indianman.

they might be Slow and poor sailors but they have alot of cargo room wich might be needed for some large shipbuilding objects.

[Destraex]

 So the solution to allowing old redundant ships of the line to play with the peak of the sail age nelsonian warships is to have them haul cargo?

 

The way WOT did it was not to allow level 20 players or tanks in matches with lvl 1 players. Of course this requires a massive community and splits all of your friends up.

[Mirones]

where did you get the idea thatold firstys gets used as haulers?

100guns are 100guns and maxspeed dont really matter in linefight. sailing at full speed make it hard for following ships to reach your boardside to cover you from enemy fire if you got badly damaged by focusfire.

[Destraex]

"they might be Slow and poor sailors but they have alot of cargo room wich might be needed for some large shipbuilding objects."

[Clinch]

 So the solution to allowing old redundant ships of the line to play with the peak of the sail age nelsonian warships is to have them haul cargo?

 

The way WOT did it was not to allow level 20 players or tanks in matches with lvl 1 players. Of course this requires a massive community and splits all of your friends up.

Ive learned in the past week(s) that the devs of Naval Action are very smart. 

[Mirones]

 

 

"they might be Slow and poor sailors but they have alot of cargo room wich might be needed for some large shipbuilding objects."

 

 

honsetly i would have no problem sailing past an old spainish galleon in my more modern Indianman.

 

again all people think of pewpewpew tss

[Eyeless_Camper]

I do belive a 126 gun ship of the line from 1650 will hurt a frigate or similar from 1800 pretty badly no matter the age.

I sure want it!

[Alex Connor]

There's nothing particularly wrong with the older 1670-1750 or so ships apart from not having the benefits of the later scientific hull design and a tendency to be overgunned for any given hull size.

 

For example, a 70 gun 3rd of 1700-ish might sound reasonably equivalent to a Napoleonic 74, but the 70 will be about 1050 tons bm, 151ft by 40ft and carry 24lb-9lb-6lb batteries, where the 74 is 1900 tons bm, 180ft by 49ft and armed with 32lb-18lb-9lb guns. The 70 is roughly the same size as a later 50 gun ship, which illustrates the overgunning problem. Combined with the older hullform these ships would be distinctly poor sailors. This is true all through the ratings systems, for example 1st rates are likely to be smaller than later 3rd rates.

 

Although they are more decorated than later ships I'm not sure how much difference that would make to the sailing qualities, not exactly going to help but at the same time unlikely to be more than a few tons difference. Probably wouldn't have any greater cargo capacity either unless you went back as far as galleons.

 

Overall you wouldn't want to pit the older ships against their direct Napoleonic equivalents, but they would still be combat viable if you can fight ships of a lower nominal rating (and this would make sense if the older ships are cheaper or more easily obtained).

[maturin]

 

There's nothing particularly wrong with the older 1670-1750 or so ships apart from not having the benefits of the later scientific hull design and a tendency to be overgunned for any given hull size.

Once you get back into the 17th century, the nautical practices result in less seaworthy vessels because of the inability to reef. They also lacked decent storm canvas because staysails were not used and the courses they carried would get becalmed in heavy seas. On the flipside, they had a lot of freeboard and the stability it implied.

 

The very high prows and sterncastles (optimized for boarding combat) also made the older ships less weatherly, which often proved fatal, on a less shore.

[Alex Connor]

True, but I'd imagine that if an older vessel survived long enough to be around Napoleonic ships then their sail handling practices would have caught up?

 

Also, wouldn't  the 1670 cut-off exclude ships with raised forecastles? By this point the deck layout that would be used though the Napoleonic era was already well established (although a few of the largest ships had a small raised decks above the poop deck).

[maturin]

No vessel would have survived that long, though. Warships were entirely temporary constructions, and were very elderly by 30 years old or so.

[Dragonslayer4325]

id like this to be a world of tanks type of game you have tier 1 ships which are like schooners then you go up until galleons earning xp by sinking ships and winning battles then with that xp you research better guns and stuff until you can research the next ship and get it.

[Mirones]

there will be no magic XPs and stuff poping up above a ship you just sink this is not an arcade game.

[BungeeLemming]

 

id like this to be a world of tanks type of game you have tier 1 ships which are like schooners then you go up until galleons earning xp by sinking ships and winning battles then with that xp you research better guns and stuff until you can research the next ship and get it.

If thats going to be the final game I claim that NavalAction has failed.

 

The devs have so much good ideas of open world and sandbox.. WoT is plain arena fight with no real goal to play for. You drive your tanks, get better tanks and thats it.. Thats not a good long term motivation.

Mirones.. XP will most likely be a factor to determin what ships one can sail.. Just imagine a newcomer in a good society or with a very riich friend.. First ship a 1st rate? and then he goes into rvr.. guess how upset the hard workers will be..

[Destraex]

On the flip side I hope there is time compression like in silent hunter otherwise I would have to give up my day job just to play.

[Destraex]

It will be very strange to have an early 1700s ship breaking the HMS victory with smaller cannon?

[Mirones]

It will be very strange to have an early 1700s ship breaking the HMS victory with smaller cannon?

 

smaller cannons? size dint change much there where 24lb arment lineships and the victory is only late 1700

[Destraex]

mirones so you think it will be fine to mix the earliest ships with the latest in this game?

 

also considering it looks like most will start the game wiith late model ahips