How to make PVP more apealing

[Fuzzyhead12]

so today i waas sitting on my throne in my bathroom, and used the time to empty my bowels to think about how to make PVP more apealing, well i htink the picture of me sitting on a toilet isnt the way.

 

 

i was thinking about the 2 min batteltimer and who it favors the most, well it favours the attacker mostly if the attacker attacks smaller enemies. but thats the most used argument.

 

However, if we are thinking about 2 big fleets clashing at eachother from 2 oposing factions, then we will get in a serous problem. That these Battels will be never full 25v25 battels, 2 mins are simply is away to small time to bring in all 25 ships  on both sides. You have ships that screen or tag enemies and it will end up in severel smaller fights.

 

 

So how do we make pvp better in that instace. maybe Completly removing the Timer.

 

what will most likly happen then?

 

Raider squads are getting reduced, but that depends of their hunting grounds. But would a non timer actuel affect Raider parties, not really. While the Battel moves on the fighting ships are sailing away of the spawnpoint. Alredy after few minutes of combat they are so far away that any reinforcement is barly able to affect the outcome in that battel, so that Raiders still could sink their target and then taking on the reinforcemnt or try to flee. this makes playing Raider squads harder depending on the popolation of their hunting grounds but also makes the combat more dynamic.

 

Big epic battels between opposing faction, along the border.

these battels will last long till the timer runs out, so around 2 hours. The battels will change how clans opperate will change how frigates or other ships are used for screening and tagging and make the tag important,while it was important before.

 

Now its far easier to intercept a port assault while you have a ship tagging a assault group the maingroup slowly joins in, allowes first and secoundrate in battels where they would be mostly not able to join and the fun part is that these battels will stay open allowing pugs refilling them then needed, also here aplies the spawnpoint stays where it is.

 

This will also affects the economy, ships that usuly see the inside of the drydock (sant or vici) are now used on open sea battels, and that means there will be losses for these ships, or actuel for any ship in generel, gives the crafters a reason to build certain ships more then others, but on the same time making 1st and 2nd rates more rare in habour battels or in generell, since not everyone can afford to loose that ship every 2 days. and what affect the ship builder also affects the resource market, there will high demand on the market for certain resources, the amount of exceptional ships will drop to abit.

 

 

well thats my opinion on the whole timer thing.

 

[Skippy]

I agree completely with you

[Galileus]

http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/12940-battle-timers-killing-pvp/

[TartanT]

I don't think timers should be removed. Though this may not be a bad thing if you were saved, but a last minute addition to the battle could swing things from the way they were going. An increase in timer back to the original 5 minutes would be good though. And also allow friendlies to join back into missions, so many people complain about ganks in missions while we are powerless to help

[Hethwill]

Again.

 

Sails that can be seen are, within favourable wind usage, in range of the timers to enter a battle.

 

The timer, if increased will ensure we get back to the mission jumping situation.

 

At least the 2 minute timer ensures an attentive commander that if no sails are on the horizon he is safe to proceed without being jumped by enemy corsairs.

 

With 5 minute timers it was chaotic and with no chance for friendlies to enter the mission to save them.

 

We are on the balance. It is not perfect but it is working.

[Fuzzyhead12]

we are still in early acces, so what harm would be done if we simply just test it for a week and getting some data out of it.

 

Again.

 

Sails that can be seen are, within favourable wind usage, in range of the timers to enter a battle.

 

The timer, if increased will ensure we get back to the mission jumping situation.

 

At least the 2 minute timer ensures an attentive commander that if no sails are on the horizon he is safe to proceed without being jumped by enemy corsairs.

 

With 5 minute timers it was chaotic and with no chance for friendlies to enter the mission to save them.

 

We are on the balance. It is not perfect but it is working.

 

that might be true that ships with favouravle wind are able to get in the fight in 2 mins but not in any other wind. or simply said, only ships that are sailing in the their best wind are able to join a battel before it closes.

 

no timer would be as much of a counter to mission jumping as the 2min entrance, if oyu do mission you do it normaly in a popolated area, therfor reinforcement ins always there.

 

sure the 5 min timer made battel chaotic a bit, but the battel moves away of the spawn, so do the ships. and after a few mins you are outside of any gunrange. Raider squads who are going deep in enemy teretory, could still board a ship and flee before the enemy reinforcement is on their butt.

 

just btw - offtopic : around trux we had severel gankers in the last few days, they boarded a ship but then we got them on their way back to bonacca, so the 2 min timer dosent protect them from getting into a patroll and on the end of the day they lost more then they gained.

[KrakkenSmacken]

we are still in early acces, so what harm would be done if we simply just test it for a week and getting some data out of it.

 

 

It's already been tested, and proven to not work.  

 

You just didn't happen to be here when that was going on.

Edited April 7, 2016 by KrakkenSmacken

[Hethwill]

we are still in early acces, so what harm would be done if we simply just test it for a week and getting some data out of it.

 

 

that might be true that ships with favouravle wind are able to get in the fight in 2 mins but not in any other wind. or simply said, only ships that are sailing in the their best wind are able to join a battel before it closes.

 

no timer would be as much of a counter to mission jumping as the 2min entrance, if oyu do mission you do it normaly in a popolated area, therfor reinforcement ins always there.

 

sure the 5 min timer made battel chaotic a bit, but the battel moves away of the spawn, so do the ships. and after a few mins you are outside of any gunrange. Raider squads who are going deep in enemy teretory, could still board a ship and flee before the enemy reinforcement is on their butt.

 

just btw - offtopic : around trux we had severel gankers in the last few days, they boarded a ship but then we got them on their way back to bonacca, so the 2 min timer dosent protect them from getting into a patroll and on the end of the day they lost more then they gained.

 

Actually it has been working well. Corsairs risk jumping one or two and then immediately will have a flotilla waiting for them as they can no more run through from battle to battle invisible.

 

You try out the corsair/privateer life deep inside any nation, right at their busy trade lanes and AI mission grounds and then you will see what I mean.

[Galileus]

we are still in early acces, so what harm would be done if we simply just test it for a week and getting some data out of it.

 

Theoretic process is first needed to find out the ideas worth testing in the first place. Testing everything "because why not" would only lead to wasted time.

[Taranis]

Well, err.... this is PvP!

 

I am all in favor of:

1) Removing battle joining timers

2) Shortening the actual battle timer itself (2 hours is much too long - some of us have real life to contend with)

3) Allowing players that don't want to pvp to exclude themselves from PvP in the character setup (from the start) - so that they cannot get jumped in missions, nor get dragged in pvp, nor join any pvp action.  

[Eldberg]

I think one of the biggest things here that needs to be adjusted is the XP/Gold for PVP. At the moment, you can make a lot more money and a lot more XP farming AI... Being a game that is meant to be PVP-centric, this does not make sense. The rewards for captain vs captain combat needs to be increased, otherwise there is little reason to engage in PVP other than for fun.

[Babble]

Doesn't much matter to me either way which way the battle timer argument ends up falling.   Myself and others who play like me will adapt.

 

 

But as far as how to make PVP more appealing?

 

Honestly those who pvp regularly already love it.  Those who don't should give it a try.   Its honestly the most fun you will have in a game anywhere.  Its skill based, strategic, heart pounding, fun.  I havent attacked a NPC in days and I am still making enough money to keep myself pvping.

 

To make pvp more appealing convince your friends to come pvp with you.   Give them a free boat to pvp in if you have to.  Organize clan wide pvp night.  Nation wide pvp night.  

 

Gather as many people as you can and go sit in the Ba-Babble Triangle. (La Tortue, Mo-town, Baracoa).   guarantee fun times are had.

 

 

 

In games like this the pvp starts to get really fun once people start really going out just looking for fun.   Group of 3 guys who arent quick to jump on every trader, or cutter they see float past.   Guys who look for fights of equal ships.  Or even out gunned. 

 

Respect is earned.  Organized group fights and 1v1s start.   Game gets better. 

 

 

 

 

TLDR:  wanna make pvp enticing?  convince more people to pvp.

Edited April 7, 2016 by Babble

[_X_Apophis_X_]

1) Increase XP gained from PVP ( At moment potential loss to new players out weighs rewards IMO).

2) Return to previous rendition allow all to enter missions within the two minute timer (Nothing worse than not being able to follow escaping enemies into someone else's mission). 

3) Reduce time allowed in end screen to 5min the same as end of battle (Nothing worse than sitting around waiting for enemies to exit detracts from hunting enemy).

4) Create PVP style missions Example have large combat area circles/zones, where if you engage players within these circles the XP is greater than missions. Basically defending areas around nations ports and on the flip side missions to harass attack players in enemy nation zones. So as you capture ports these missions become available for both defenders and attackers.

 

I like the game and your ability to make the choice to PVP or not as is your want, for PVP to really take off XP must be increased for casual players who are limited on time (not me I have plenty of time no life )

[fox2run]

I have played this interesting game for a while. Being a historian myself this game really nails my fascination of the maritime warfare of the napoleonic era.

 

The alpha version, however, has room for improvement. When I started to play the game, the timers where longer. I think it was 5 min timers. The battles where bigger as more players could join. I founded really fun and challenging and looked forward to my next encounter. I joined a clan in order to fight in a more organized way with coordination in battle, formations etc.

 

And then the disappointment came along. The priority of the clans where to play epic port-battles with ships it would take months of gameplay to get my hands on. Until then I was ordered outside a port with my frigate in a skirmish-fleet that might or might not be put into a suicidal battle to prevent the enemy big ships to enter a port. The clans where controlled by a small hands of frustrated players that where overloaded with tasks in order to organize port-defences in almost 24 hours day after day. 

 

They where getting frustrated with "ordinary" players that also have a job, family and other interests in life and couldnt put the time required into theses defences and build-ups. In order to play the big battles you really have to be dedicated and use months to harvest AI-fleets, do the trading etc. Hence the avg. players need to harvest "in peace" and didnt like the ganking (why call an interception at sea ganking btw) making the join battletimers shorter. This again means less pvp for the avg player and so fort.

 

I think the developers should give this a thought: how can an average (most) player see some nice pvp-action in Open World without the heavy clan based port battle system? As it is now this game is in the hand of a very few, dedicated souls that eventually will burn out. 

 

One way is to rethink the whole port-battle system and work for bigger battles in open sea that players can join when their wifes are cooking a meal or their kids are sleeping. Its just my two cents:

 

1) Remove battle timers completely. 

2) Make it profitable to even loose a battle with a ship (like its done in Company of Heroes 2 where you get points of staying in a lost battle)

3) Rethink the port-battle mecanisms - big battles in open world should NOT be a) for the few mighty clans - 24/7 with the result of dedicated players worn out.

4) Remove the need for harvest AI-fleets in order to advance in rank.

5) Clans should use their efforts to sail in OW-waters not to be locked into ports with their mighty fleets. Get these battleships out to sea where they belongs! 

6) Nelson would have made it a different game experience! Award the daring captains!

[Hethwill]

You are pointing out human factors. This cannot be understood by the machine.

 

The motto is: When you are online you play. When you are not then you do not.

 

Each clan/fleet/community/flotilla has its own operation mode and not all engage into "trafalgar galore" Port Battles.

 

I think the variety of gameplay, day after day, given the available time to play, is really good. With limited time you can simply go after AI or plan sailing to a new port to establish a new outpost. With more time you can check where you are needed.

 

I completely agree with you regarding screen fleet deployments. They erode the morale more than help the combat operations when there is nothing to do except sit there. I would suggest your fleet leaders to allow flotillas to spread out more and go on seek and destroy in a 15 minutes radius around the objective instead of just sitting like pups.

 

Reward for losing makes no sense by the way. The game isn't based on that and every ship, every rank, is valuable. After all it is a game based on efficient use of your assets as opposed to pure arena balance.

[fox2run]

Think twice: would Sid Meier have developed this kind of playstyle? No. No way. No instant fun as it is right now. The game has simply become a near boredom to play. What is fun? To sail in and open world with real life oppponents - friends and foes alike. To go to unknown waters, to see battles develop. To actually fight plp that are not fleeing. Not waiting in port or hunt AI-fleets for xp.

 

The waters are empty now. No larger open world battles. The game favours all the boring stuff: Sitting countless hours and waiting or use countless hours in a trading ship. Or gain xp fighting AI-fleets all the time whining about "gankers" or "ganking" (other pvp-players that is). The clans are powerhouses with few, dedicated players controlling newcomers that want to play larger scale battles. I understand that these clancontrollers like status quo as they have invested (too many) hours doing little and making larger battles easier for new players would be a kind of demotion so to speak. But still. The gameplay isnt fun for most. And therefore the playerbase will be ever-shrinking and the game will die out.

 

I like to get my hands on new ships and do some pvp-battles in OW. But as it is now, I have to use countless of hours haresting AI-fleets or please over-ambitious clan-controllers outside ports depending on some stupid timers set up by plp with too much time on their hands. How fun is that? Thats no fun at all. Theres no reward. I can join up with some other frigate-captains and hunt lonely ships on the run with bow-chasers. Challenging? No. Fun? No. 

 

This game is a boredom unless you have too much sparetime. Think about it. Most players can use maybe 1-3 hours at night. In that periode of time they need to have fun gameplay. And that is even if are in a cutter or in a Santissima. Waiting in a port for an enemy that MIGHT show up... is... boring... And if you enter a port battle in lets say a Cerberus (allowed) the more experienced players are whining about slots being used... That makes it almost an direct hostile environment for newcomers. Is that fun? No. Not at all. 

 

The Open World  port battle stuff and join battle timers has to be revamped completely in order to make this game a gem. It has potential but lack a lot of good and fun gameplay. The 2 min. timers is a mistake in pvp. Its actually pvp-hostile and the only reason for them is that people need to harvest xp and gold in peace so that they eventually someday maybe can join a port-battle.... Clans are fine, but this type of game favours the few too much.

[Galileus]

SNIP

 

Whole PB stuff will be revamped. So there, there.

[Hethwill]

No idea what game you are playing fox, but surely it is not the same as I do.

 

Even if I plan long trip today, tomorrow I will be hitting enemy shipping.

 

Half the game is gameplay planning, pretty much like a captain at that age would plan their course of action.

[fox2run]

I like to do combat with my ship. I do not like to spend countless of ours in a pyramide-shape game where I need months of preparation in order to (maybe) have a port-battle. Its silly. 

 

When I joined the game there where a 5 min timer. And the battles in open sea where larger: more fun. I almost never do pve. But if I need to play a battle now, its pve or... nothing except from maybe bow-chase someone. Its just...boring...