3rd Rate A.I. Issue Remove or Not Remove

[Sir Henry de Montfort]

     In the Closed Alpha for us older players, we used to have A.I. Pavel Fleets.  They were removed due to being easy to cap, and used in great numbers in port battles with no crafting being conducted.  Initially we all moaned about it and yearned for that easy 2nd rate cap that we could no longer do  They were removed and they became much more rare.  People took care of their Pavel's and crafting took began in response to this.   I believe that we have reached a point where the common 3rd Rate has almost reach this point.  They are very numerous on the open sea in single, double, triple and the rare quad fleets.

The problem with them is not so simple..so lets list the sides:

 

The problem with the 3rd Rate is dual....

Positive

1) Players need them to level (great kill/assist) exp.   3rd Rates give 250/500 xp per kill.  Most of any A.I. ship.
2) It's the first real line ship a player can use and most frequently used ship in game for grinding and port battles.
3) Makes a player lots of loot if sold along with guns. On average you can get 35-45k per ship and another 20-25k in guns sold.
4) Large amounts can be captured during several hours of team grinding.  Speed cap's with boarding mods can take as little as 5 minutes.

5) The Ship can be found EVERWHERE on the open world map by everybody.
6) Encourages Port Battles....Free easily accessed Port Battle ships.

Negative

1) The A.I. 3rd rates are too easily capped and in large amounts.  Players can easily cap A.I. 3rd Rates at about 1 ship per 15 min on average.

2) Crafting....The easy access to free 3rd Rates via capping A.I. fleets.  Why craft or build a ship when you can get one for free??  This makes crafting a 3rd Rate pointless.  You can get a Pavel BP from a Constitution build so why build a 3rd rate when you can cap one?

3) 3rd Rates are taken for granted.  Lose a  3rd rate in battle?  Who cares grab one of the 10 capped one's sitting in port.  The ship is taken for granted.  Its not appreciated and won't be till they become much rarer.   No point in crafting and taking care of a 3rd rate, like you would your Trincomolee or Bellona. Why would you?  you could just go cap another in 15 min.

4) Port Battles are happening Too Much!!  they are happening too much and the usage of 3rd Rates are getting silly, example. Pirates and Danes throw fleets of 25/25 capped 3rd Rates at Jeremy every night for almost a week defended by the British. They lost combined close to 50 third rates attacking each night for 7 nights. That's 350 sunken third rates at 1 port. That is ridiculous... even more so is that the pirates and danes didn't even flinch!!  why would they?

if those had  been Bellona's, Pavels, Victorys or Santi's...you bet they would be cringing.

5)  These are causing too many port battles with flags that are too cheap.  They are giving a large influx of currency for the economy but not towards crafting.... or the economy..but for flag after flag after flag..with no cost to attacker or defender.  

     a)  Realistic -  Port attacks took up huge amounts of preparation and supplies.  Ships could not easily be replaced.  Flags in game are too cheap and the 

           cheap third rates are not allowing nations to feel the sting of a poor/failed attack.

       Players are getting a little burned out in some nations/not all... at the rate of Port Battles and even if you the defender and you sink every single enemy            ship in a 25 v 25 port battle.  You get no real victory..cause they are coming tomorrow with..25 more.  yes you get xp or currency for it, but there is no 

           strategic value to it???

6) It makes crafting kind of pointless in the Conni - 3rd Rate category.  Why build a Constitution if you can just sail a capped 3rd Rate?  There is no point....

Why craft a 3rd Rate?  There is no point again, due to A.I. 3rd Rate fleets.  If we eliminate A.I. 3rd Rates.  People will use the Constitutions, until they can get a 3rd Rate BP and build some and even then you might not want to risk that nice 3 dura 3rd Rate you have.  You will see a much needed increase in the use of Constitutions and the crafting of both Constitutions and 3rd Rates.        

 

I know thirds are a part of the world exp/port battle/money equation but my opinion is they need to go the way of the pavel. Port battles should be carefully planned battles where you SHOULD be scared to lose your crafted ship..not disposable ship that has 10 clones standing by. Make you think wither that attack is worth it. 

Edited March 19, 2016 by Henry d'Esterre Darby
Removed erroneous statement.

[Lord Roberts]

Next people are going to ask for all AI fleets to be removed.

[Capt Roberts]

IMO capped ships should not be used in PBs, only crafted ships should be allowed to fight in PBs.

[Lord Roberts]

IMO capped ships should not be used in PBs, only crafted ships should be allowed to fight in PBs.

that does not fix anything, makes things more complicated, means you can not take captured player ships into Port Battles, what if someone took a victory or sant from a player but can't use in PB because of this rule you want.

[SteelSandwich]

For future reference: open 1 topic and just edit the post, no need to open 3 topics

[Sir Henry de Montfort]

No Lord Roberts.  ONLY AI capped 3rd RATES...not a capped user ship or store bought ship.. ONLY 3rd Rates that are AI capped.

Sorry Steel..been 10 hours online and sleep deprived lol

[Arbour]

Yes remove 3rd rate, it will make crafting more important and force nation to build an economy before they can have SoLs.

[SKurj.]

My suggestion is to not allow capped AI ships to be sailed.  Allow the player the option of breaking up or having admiralty buy it from the player.

 

This would allow devs to even bring back larger AI fleets with Victories or Santi's even.

 

Allow players to sail ships capped from players

 

Allow low level AI ships, such as traders, and anything 6th rate and down still to be captured and used.

 

 

The cash payouts would help in financing crafted ships, being able to only sail capped player ships might inspire a little more pvp perhaps.

 

Bigger, nastier AI fleets might add some excitement...

 

My thots...

[Henry d'Esterre Darby]

Please continue the discussion here:

http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/11652-are-3rd-rates-too-disposable/

[Sir Henry de Montfort]

Why there Darby?  that conversation has fallen into a discussion that doesn't even discuss the thirds..it has devolved into a multi topic conversation.  Which is why i posted it here.  I really am at my wits end with this game and the broken mechanic's and really wacked economy, and cheats certain players are using.  I really love this game, it has so much potentional and I know it is so very close to having just come out of Alpha.  But the game is becoming an entity that isn't worth  most of the players time... cause are time is being wasted and people are already are leaving the game fast than they are buying it.  Numbers are dropping at all hours of the game and trust me as a british captain. I'm up 12 hours a day defending port after port after port after port.  I have no time to grind, no time to just sit and relax in game.  Its battle after battle after battle..fighting in a game that is broken and a large segment of the games players are soo tired and burned out by it.   I speak for a large base of players who are starting to hate this game and will move on to the next if moderators and developers don't start taking notice.  With that said ... I guess its off to the off beat post...where the point has been lost.    Fix the third rates,  Fix the port attack flag issue, fix these things and it will be a great start...till then the game is just something that will drive people away.  Please fix it.

 

Good night.

Edited March 19, 2016 by Sir Henry de Montfort

[Wilson09]

Take a break, go on a basic cutter and sail around.

 

Let politics be politics and let others defend your Ports.

You are fighting windmills like Don Quixote...

 

Become a casual player or take a break or quit is the solution right now.

 

No one is going to fix the issues you adressed asap you needed it,

take a break mate...

 

No one should suffer a burn-out due to excessive gaming...

[Porpoise]

My suggestion is to not allow capped AI ships to be sailed.  Allow the player the option of breaking up or having admiralty buy it from the player.

 

This would allow devs to even bring back larger AI fleets with Victories or Santi's even.

 

Allow players to sail ships capped from players

 

Allow low level AI ships, such as traders, and anything 6th rate and down still to be captured and used.

 

 

The cash payouts would help in financing crafted ships, being able to only sail capped player ships might inspire a little more pvp perhaps.

 

Bigger, nastier AI fleets might add some excitement...

 

My thots...

 

I agree. I would allow only traders and unrated ships to be captured and the other ships sold to the admirality for gold and XP. This would be a great boost for the working economics and really working RvR where every lost ship counts. 

Edited March 19, 2016 by Porpoise

[MaartenBruche]

I really like this idea. It would also push more people to help/get involved with the crafting effort in general, so they're engaged with every aspect of the game.

 

Most of all I like the idea of larger ships in AI fleets being available to fight. This would give a challenge and interesting experience for higher level players, and by not allowing capped AI SOL's to be sailed there wouldn't be any harm in having lots of very powerful AI fleets roaming around. It might even be interesting to have hostile AI fleets sail into enemy territory and be hostile to players, forcing players to come together in order to sink the fleet to be able to sail around safely again. But that's off topic.

 

As a whole I really like the idea though of disallowing players to sail AI captured SOL's, but still having them in game.

[WladimirUN]

As port battle entry is related to battle rating, would it hurt to make the battlerating of a captured 3rd rate below a threshold that it cant enter shallow/deep water pbs?

 

only problem i see is then the BR in normal fights - but that only affects reinforcements that is obsolete via the "land in battle" content with the batteries on the shore; maybe thats a way to keep the positive stuff and encourage still doing pvp with the 3rds, but for PBs you need crafted ones

 

Or just do battle rating for deep water ports from 100 (cerb) to 332 (random number) and 334 to 900 (santi) and make the AI 3rd rate a battle rating of 333 (just random numbers);

and the normal crafted 3rd stays at its current BR

 

makes capping in pvp more thrilling - is it an AI or a crafted 3rd i'm capping and you only see it after the fight

[mouse of war]

Just make 'em a littler rarer

[Porpoise]

Free SOL, which are endgame content, should not be available. This is hurting the economy more than you think. The market for 3rd rates is non existent, because there is simply no demand for them. Currently there is a lot of money in the game, but nothing you can buy for them. I think that more people will be attracted to crafting when AI prize ships will be removed and the economy will be more easier to understand. Now the whole economy is just a giant mess.

Just make 'em a littler rarer

 

You need plenty of them to gain XP in PVE.