I think admin/devs owe a lot of people an answer, put this issue to rest.

[Kutai]

We focus on important things and important things are determined by the community. 

Current priorities list (voted by players) will not let us focus on anything related to pirates for quite some time. 

Shouting about lack of attention to this topic is wrong and will only lead to ruined relationships of the dev team with those players.

Some are even threatening to leave the game which for us means complete lack of understanding of what this community voted for to be done first (+ also means that pirates won )

 

Regarding pirates

First will address the port capture

 

Lack of port capture is not going to make pirate gameplay interesting. Henry Morgan captured a lot of towns using his own forces (at some point he had 1400 infantry under his command - all buccaneers), if henry morgan could do it (he had funds and could hire people on the promise of riches) then any JackSparrow111 could do it too if he has enough funds and friends. But you can try to persuade us to the contrary.

 

Current mechanics were explained in detail to mods and those who asked.

The difference with the pirate mental model is strong for several reasons. 

 

Reason 1: Current war mechanics.

• Pirates can attack each other.
• But everyone else can also attack each other.
• Because you can attack anyone anyway -
• pirate is no different from the dutch because he can freely engage anyone
• Because of this the line between nations (who can be at peace) and pirates (who are always attackable) is blurred from the national player point of view
• But you miss one thing - pirate is not safe from his friends (explained in detail in reason 4.)

Reason 2: Sandbox goals

 

In a sandbox everyone has access to same tools and can use them the way they want.

Some players want pirates to have to extremely limited tools hoping their gameplay will become a lot more interesting as a result. For some reason many of those players are not pirates. Two proposals are common: lack of port capture (in reality pirates did capture towns) and lack of ability to sail first rates (in reality pirates did not need first rates because their goal was to steal enough money to retire)

 

In the sandbox getting enough money is easy and if you don't want to retire you create new goals for yourself and retiring is not one of them. Because its a sandbox you cannot really control those goals.

 

Reason 3. No war/peace cycle

If peace/war could cycle could happen between nations then pirates would be a main target (because criminals) during peace times - or used as harassing force against nations you are at peace with. Original thought was this - players who are interested lots of pvp opportunities join pirates because they attack each other (lots of PvP). But player base use the tools provided the way they want. And pirates decided to unite. 

 

Reason 4. Unity

Those who comment on the lack of difference do not understand the strong unity that exist in the pirate nation. You can attack and sink ANY Pirate with no consequence. You see a beautiful ship you don't have; you attack it and take it. Pirate towns are not safe (unlike british coasts). Pirates can sink you if you are a pirate and steal everything. But Pirates DONT attack each other because of the unity, because thats what they chose to believe. 

 

Reason 5. Disney and books

It is tied to goals players set for themselves. But disney/historical pirates are very hard to replicate in a sandbox environment. Because

Disney pirate - robs 3 player snows filled with gold and retires.

Sandbox pirate - robs 3 player snows filled with gold and buys a 3rd rate.

Rob enough players and you have a fleet of 25 third rates. 

 

In summary

Players proposing "I was hoping pirates were interesting" should offer things that will make pirates interesting. 

People play historical sandboxes because they want to change history, because they want to conquer the world as Albania in EU4 or conquer germany as poland 1938 in Hearts of Iron. But because its multiplayer you can stop them.

 

Pushing the game from sandbox into themepark will affect nations more than pirates.

 

The Pirate Coalition support this post and make you a honorary Pirate. 

Edited March 3, 2016 by Kutai

[KrakkenSmacken]

yes please leave - you obviously dont understand what forum means and that other opinions to the pirate issue exist. 

 

you ignored the statement that we said we are not going to focus on pirate mechanics and national roe for quite some time because it is a community decision to focus on other things (buildings, crew/officers etc).

But you are warned not for opposite opinions (which are plenty on this forum) but for they way you talk to us. We are not calling your opinion catering to lowest common denominator - it was you who called ours this way. Insulting us is not welcome here because we did not insult you.

 

Don't come back. I don't want you here.

Grapeshot also can go.

 

A breath of fresh air and stiff tail wind this is, considering the usual cowing and scraping companies do to maintain inclusiveness of the the less savory members of their community.

[GrapeShot]

Now I'm less savory for arguing a position?

Edited March 3, 2016 by GrapeShot

[Long Beard]

yes please leave - you obviously dont understand what forum means and that other opinions to the pirate issue exist. 

 

you ignored the statement that we said we are not going to focus on pirate mechanics and national roe for quite some time because it is a community decision to focus on other things (buildings, crew/officers etc).

But you are warned not for opposite opinions (which are plenty on this forum) but for they way you talk to us. We are not calling your opinion catering to lowest common denominator - it was you who called ours this way. Insulting us is not welcome here because we did not insult you.

 

Don't come back. I don't want you here.

Grapeshot also can go.

 

GOSH DARN IT!

Why can't devs be so darn open and transparent in other MMO's? No fancy words, no politics, no BS, just pure and simple idiot slapping for all to see.

Some one just walked the plank and I'm there on the deck with my cutlass drawn so he doesn't turn back. *SPLASH*

+1 Administrator (whoever you arrrrrrr!)

[Capt Jubal Early]

Now I'm less savory for arguing a position?

Yarrrr all the yanks to the plank.

[Captain Comery]

As admin has stated the pirate mechanics are far down on the to do list at the moment and we all voted for what should be prioritised, pirate mechanics were not on the list.

Plus I'm pretty sure that the developers of the game want to collect data and suggestions to be implemented later. As much as we may wish the devs don't have a magic wand that they can wave and poof the idea is implemented.

If things get rushed this game will go down to the standards of POTBS mixed with Buccaneer the persist of infamy.

[Justme]

yes please leave - you obviously dont understand what forum means and that other opinions to the pirate issue exist.

you ignored the statement that we said we are not going to focus on pirate mechanics and national roe for quite some time because it is a community decision to focus on other things (buildings, crew/officers etc).

But you are warned not for opposite opinions (which are plenty on this forum) but for they way you talk to us. We are not calling your opinion catering to lowest common denominator - it was you who called ours this way. Insulting us is not welcome here because we did not insult you.

Don't come back. I don't want you here.

Grapeshot also can go.

Yes, the community decided. The same community where at last check the pirate faction is the 2nd largest and could be the largest now. I beg you pardon but somehow I doubt they would vote for change that contradicts their best interest.

If I'm to blunt or harsh or refuse to have my lips affixed to your posterior like some here do then I won't apologize for that.

Ban me, don't ban me it does not matter. At lest I can walk away by not being a sorry kiss ass like long beard.

Edited March 3, 2016 by Justme

[GrapeShot]

There's all manner of issues debated on this forum. Seems a bit over-the-top to call me less savory for participating in this debate. I've said what I think the problem is and offered suggestions -- what's wrong with that?

[zolfo]

as far as the pirate battle mechanics go pirates can attack each other however the mechanics are messed up in such a way that only 1 person may attack another and the attackee (defender) is the olnly one who can recieve backup. this has led to green on green in the past and will hopefully someday be fixed.

 

there are several pirates who would love to fight one another but are unable to due to this mechanic. that being said i doubt much would change even after its fixed because pirates and pirate clans have worked together for long enough to be a force to fear.

 

and if you dont like the pirates i suggest you try to fight us, but if your to scared to fight us then stop crying on the forums and simply shut your gob

Edited March 3, 2016 by zolfo

[Captain Comery]

Justme, I think you just need to calm down. You're frustrated and we get that but I recommend you take a day or two off the forum and calm down.

This is and always will be a friendly forum, please don't ruin its reputation.

Can we just get rid of this topic? It is causing massive hostilities and this is a friendly forum.

Edited March 3, 2016 by Captain Comery

[Long Beard]

Yes, the community decided. The same community where at last check the pirate faction is the 2nd largest and could be the largest now. I beg you pardon but somehow I doubt they would vote for change that contradicts their best interest.

If I'm to blunt or harsh or refuse to have my lips affixed to your posterior like some here do then I won't apologize for that.

Ban me, don't ban me it does not matter. At lest I can walk away by not being a sorry kiss ass like long beard.

 

What can I say? I respect honesty, transparency and idiot slapping.  If the admin had come out with some vague political BS that stated they may or may not change the pirate mechanics just because so many non pirates wanted it, I'd vocally disagree with him. He didn't so my lips are firmly attached to his posterior with super glue. BTW, my beard tickles there.

 

ALSO, you can get your point across without resorting to insults or metaphors. Justme, I'm Justsaying!

 

Don't like it? You'll find me in Atwood or Sunbury... YARR!

 

Oh and BTW, it's Captain Long Beard to you boyo

Edited March 4, 2016 by Long Beard

[Remo]

yes please leave - you obviously dont understand what forum means and that other opinions to the pirate issue exist. 

 

you ignored the statement that we said we are not going to focus on pirate mechanics and national roe for quite some time because it is a community decision to focus on other things (buildings, crew/officers etc).

But you are warned not for opposite opinions (which are plenty on this forum) but for they way you talk to us. We are not calling your opinion catering to lowest common denominator - it was you who called ours this way. Insulting us is not welcome here because we did not insult you.

 

Don't come back. I don't want you here.

Grapeshot also can go.

 

 

I implore you not to act like this, you guys are professionals now and you need to act the part. The amount of criticism you guys are getting right now is quite low compared to many other companies. Once you start responding to the haters in the same way a starving artist would you will start losing people, you will get bad reviews and your game will suffer for it.

 

Even if people give you crap for what you say or what you fail to do, you need to walk through that particular fire with your head up. If you can't do that then you need to hire someone who can do the public relations for you. In fact it might be best if you do that, you having direct contact with people with the attitude of "If they don't like it fuck 'em" is bad juju.

 

Just my shilling...

Edited March 4, 2016 by Remo

[Long Beard]

I implore you not to act like this, you guys are professionals now and you need to act the part. The amount of criticism you guys are getting right now is quite low compared to many other companies. Once you start responding to the haters in the same way a starving artist would you will start losing people, you will get bad reviews and your game will suffer for it.

 

Even if people give you crap for what you say or what you fail to do, you need to walk through that particular fire with your head up. If you can't do that then you need to hire someone who can do the public relations for you. In fact it might be best if you do that, you having direct contact with people with the attitude of "If they don't like it fuck 'em" is bad juju.

 

Just my shilling...

 

I don't think it's unprofessional, it's refreshing.

There's a fine line between giving crap and crossing the line. In other MMO's forum accounts get banned without explanation. At least here we're seeing transparency, not only that it publicly sets an example of what's tolerated and what's not.

 

One of the things I found really positive in the rules is how trolling isn't tolerated. It's new, it's refreshing and I for one love it. 

 

Trolls be gone!

[Remo]

I don't think it's unprofessional, it's refreshing.

There's a fine line between giving crap and crossing the line. In other MMO's forum accounts get banned without explanation. At least here we're seeing transparency, not only that it publicly sets an example of what's tolerated and what's not.

 

One of the things I found really positive in the rules is how trolling isn't tolerated. It's new, it's refreshing and I for one love it. 

 

Trolls be gone!

 

Whatever floats your boat my friend.

[admin]

I implore you not to act like this, you guys are professionals now and you need to act the part. The amount of criticism you guys are getting right now is quite low compared to many other companies. Once you start responding to the haters in the same way a starving artist would you will start losing people, you will get bad reviews and your game will suffer for it.

 

 

No.

We behave professionally with people who behave professionally. Communities especially steam communities are using street justice which usually separates good people from bad people very quickly and just does not let any BS. There were/are a lot of  haters of certain features on this forum (read the AI fleets threads) and we even create topics to collect things that people hate to fix over time. But.

 

We will not tolerate people insulting us/me. Losing people is fine. We don't care about sales and never cared. Money are of no importance to us  http://www.polygon.com/2015/6/25/8846695/apple-confederate-flag-civil-war. We said **** you to Apple and have no problem letting go of "Justme", just because he is a jerk who cant read what we said. He will be like almost the second non viagra spammer guy who was ever banned here over 3 years of forum operation.

[Kreah]

And the medal for best admin of the years goes to, Admin, huzzah!

[SirLeggit]

Admin that kicks butt....LOVE this game!

[Balsafer]

I had a good laugh at that lol

[Balsafer]

While I appreciate your detailed response, it is obvious the direction you intend to take the pirate issue. Although I am lost on the final warning seeing I have yet to receive a first.( barring this of course)

If you can't handle being called out on your various contradictions on the issue then ban me, I'm sure you will just for this post. But such is the price for not marching in goose step with the leadership.

Keep in mind unless you edit all your post, the contradictions will always be visible and no amount of bans can change that.

Been fun guys, I'm sure I'm gone after this. Remember don't dare to have an opposing opinion.

 

 

I havent read anywhere that the Devs contradict themselves.  I have however read that the players in the pirate nation united together for which the Devs did not expect to happen.   It is a honest statement and one can not predict everything or what people will do.  

 

Key point devs stated everyone has the same tools and can play how they wan't.  This is a sandbox game where you do whatever your heart desires.  Many people seem to forget this aspect of the game.

[Shoeshine]

I do think banning Justme etc is overreacting big time. Im neautral in this matter and I think Justme etc have had a rather good tone. I dont see any reason whatsoever to ban any of them for this. Ive seen alot worse behavior against Devs for games in alpha. I dont see these comments as toxic at all. I like that Devs shows some ballz, but doing it here also shows that they are dense. Save that attityden for players that deserve it.

[SirLeggit]

I do think banning Justme etc is overreacting big time. Im neautral in this matter and I think Justme etc have had a rather good tone. I dont see any reason whatsoever to ban any of them for this. Ive seen alot worse behavior against Devs for games in alpha. I dont see these comments as toxic at all. I like that Devs shows some ballz, but doing it here also shows that they are dense. Save that attityden for players that deserve it.

they implied admin was a nazi...a ban is totally justified.

[Shoeshine]

they implied admin was a nazi...a ban is totally justified.

I missed where he called him a nazi. Where did he do that? But even if he did he didnt mean the dev wanna kill jews. There are different meanings to calling some1 a nazi.

"If you boss around your man, you're a femi-Nazi, if you're adamant about being a vegan, you're a righteous Nazi vegan. If you're in favor of any law that takes away our right to bear arms, you are definitely some kind of Nazi. In fact, if you are very adamant about nearly anything that I disagree with, you are some kind of Nazi".

And being sensitive like the devs been here sure hasnt been good in my eyes.

Edited March 4, 2016 by Shoeshine

[SirLeggit]

I missed where he called him a nazi. Where did he do that? But even if he did he didnt mean the dev wanna kill jews. There are different meanings to calling some1 a nazi.

"If you boss around your man, you're a femi-Nazi, if you're adamant about being a vegan, you're a righteous Nazi vegan. If you're in favor of any law that takes away our right to bear arms, you are definitely some kind of Nazi. In fact, if you are very adamant about nearly anything that I disagree with, you are some kind of Nazi".

And being sensitive like the devs been here sure hasnt been good in my eyes.

what a ridiculous argument. Implying someone is a Nazi is meant as an insult. plain and simple. As for being "sensitive" how about showing people respect and acting like an adult and not some surly teenager.

[Long Beard]

I missed where he called him a nazi. Where did he do that? But even if he did he didnt mean the dev wanna kill jews. There are different meanings to calling some1 a nazi.

"If you boss around your man, you're a femi-Nazi, if you're adamant about being a vegan, you're a righteous Nazi vegan. If you're in favor of any law that takes away our right to bear arms, you are definitely some kind of Nazi. In fact, if you are very adamant about nearly anything that I disagree with, you are some kind of Nazi".

And being sensitive like the devs been here sure hasnt been good in my eyes.

 

I'm not going back to read it all but the comment was made about goose stepping which whilst isn't exclusively a march practiced by the nazi's, everyone knows its connotation.

 

Folks should be perfectly capable of voicing their opinions constructively without resorting to insults and innuendo whether they agree with the topic or not.

 

Should he get banned for it? None of my business, but I do like the zero tolerance stance taken by the officials in this game. So many game forums are just filled with toxic rants and abuse, mainly because the mods take a softly softly approach or simply stealth ban offenders.  It's easy to get pulled in to toxic communities and give back as good as you get. Before you know it, nothing is constructive and the community descends into a giant tit for tat hate fest. 

 

Thou are all Gentlemen. Act like it. Well except for us Pirates! YARR!

Edited March 4, 2016 by Long Beard

[Shoeshine]

I'm not going back to read it all but the comment was made about goose stepping which whilst isn't exclusively a march practiced by the nazi's, everyone knows its connotation.

Folks should be perfectly capable of voicing their opinions constructively without resorting to insults and innuendo whether they agree with the topic or not.

Should he get banned for it? None of my business, but I do like the zero tolerance stance taken by the officials in this game. So many game forums are just filled with toxic rants and abuse, mainly because the mods take a softly softly approach or simply stealth ban offenders. It's easy to get pulled in to toxic communities and give back as good as you get. Before you know it, nothing is constructive and the community descends into a giant tit for tat hate fest.

Thou are all Gentlemen. Act like it. Well except for us Pirates! YARR!

Thats what I mean. Nowhere did I find anything written bad enough to vouch for a ban.