Bach

What brought this up was a Dutch captain on Global. It was a paragraph complaining about France flooding the Dutch market. This struck me odd as a few days earlier a Swede was complaining about the same thing. So I'm trying to figure it out. No one in the war had the time to do it. And there are only two clans of french I ever see regularly bulk hauling. Now it would just strike me funny if this one French clan was just running around stripping everyone trade markets in the middle of this whole war thing. But another possibility is that both Swedes and Dutch made the same alliance trade pact. You both might have just underestimated the impact CCCP can actually have in your markets. I know it shocked us a first. I honestly don't know what it is. But I would like in game tools to figure it out.

There are few things in this game that are harder now than solo commerce raiding. Even if they know what you are hauling you still control the time of day it moves and the route. If you do it at the exact same time and take a direct protractor route well you probably deserve it. But it becomes a battle of wits and a chess match between you and them. That's nothing to be afraid of. The bigger issue is figuring out whom may be stripping the wealth of a small nations capital just because they can. If nations knew who was doing it then they know whom to go to war with. They also can learn if a treaty they made is actually screwing them over. The good far outweighs the bad and it's info any port captain would and should have at his fingertips. Governor to Port Captain - "Did you see which ship those x5 Textile mills left on?" Port Captain to Zgovernor- "Yes sir, 'twas the Captain Dandy Doodle sailing under the Stars and Stripes"

That is a plus. Pirates and privateers have just as much right to play the game.

With the new trading system there is a lot of confusion whom is taking trade goods from each other's capitals. The Swedes name the French for stripping their trade goods. Dutch also blame the French. As a French captain I know it's not me but I sure would like to identify whom or whose alt is doing this so we know who to go to war with. i propose cargo manifests be added to the port UI. It simply tracks all the trade transactions of the port for the last 24 hours. This way we can see who is buying up and selling all the goods on a market. Should lead to some good player controlled sand box content.

Hehe...priceless. Go get em Reds, Dolk and Reavers! On a side note, I believe all trade in NA needs to be contested at times to make the game work well. Free unrestricted trade agreements are counter productive to mmo health. If you have no pirates and privateers then you have no defenders either. Player roles are lost and the game stagnates. Further it promotes merchants that worry only about sailing times and not about working with others in their nations. It is a good thing the Swedes shoot non-Swedish cargo ships at their capital. It is a good thing that Free Danish shoot non-Danish cargo ships at their capital. It's also a good thing that the Dutch raid French waters and French raid the Dutch waters. That is healthy mmo play with roles for every type Pvp players. Non-shooting total peace agreements are great for real life but they suck in games.

Conquest marks are only generated by war conquest. They belong to whom ever earned them. Those areas were French by war conquest. We put in the time, effort and risk to take them. The peace treaty gave permission to take them to the Swedes. Only one as ever even held by Sweden at anytime previous time. Neither started the map owned by Sweden. The shared point of view in the treaty is that those counties can be owned by Sweden. Obviously there was never a shared view that they could be owned by Denmark. Hence our current issue. If we want to go by what theoretically belongs to whom I'm perfectly fine seeing the Dutch own Bovenwinds and not entirely opposed to the Brits taking back the Leewards. In fact, if the Dutch say they want Bovenwinds back I would back them. If the Swedes can't hold it there is nothing in the treaty that says I have to protect them. By the same logic the Danes are using France can loan BT to the Dutch as a base to get the job done.

You should report personal attacks. You should not be getting personal attacks. You should also understand why people are angry with you. Sweden needs x6 days to flip Bovenwinds and Leeward Islands. Bovenwinds and Leewards Islands = 50CM/day Denmark has stolen 300 CM from France. Denmark did this 1 day after signing peace treaty with France.

Let me frame this Swedes hand off of ports to the Danes thing a bit. I remind that the deal is done and we're not changing it. We're just talking about what a crappy deal it turned out to be for some of us. In hopes that future deals with the Danes/Swedes would go better. The ports represent 50CM/day in wealth. Follow me on this: Dad is hopping Jimmy will kick his drug habit because he has been a bad boy. He promises to give Jimmy his car on Jimmy's 18th Birthday. Jimmy thinks this is great and promises to be a good boy. But on his 17th birthday Jimmy gives the car his dad is still driving to drug pushers for drug money because its valuable. The drug pushers show up and take the car away from Jimmy's dad, say thank you and don't worry we're going to give your son the drugs we promised him while were using the car. Now the drug pushers and their lawyers are expecting Jimmy's dad to be happy about the deal.

Bridgetown could have been an accident or it may not have been. Your side is just as much conjecture without proof. I'm not sure what you are talking about with Danish alts? That wasn't a PB. They used French ships to flip VI into their time frame. Anyone who had the required hostility on the ports benefited. Didn't matter if they were ICS/Bork/FRN etc... The only time they don't is if the PB happens off hours for them like Bridgetown did. Your last proposal for getting 25 CMs to Sweden from French vs. Danes sounds fine. But we didn't get any say in that matter now did we. Further, it wasn't you the Swedes were shooting at in the war. Why again do we need to back the Swedes getting 50 CM/day for x4 men?

Its not the CMs. Those are just a symbolic last cookie from the jar. Its the whole style the Danes took in their approach to dealing with us. They changed the first deal. Then THEY tried to one port us. Then they essentially jerked us around on the second and third peace deals. They used crap semi-exploit tactic to fight us. Then they pushed the Swedish loophole to poke us again. Does it really matter if the Swedes take the ports from the Danes or the French? I'm not jumping for joy that this peace deal is stopping the port ping pong. We figured out how to win it after they threatened to one port us. 2 weeks from now they would have been one ported. This peace deal isn't protecting France from the Danes. Its protecting them from us. Now what's done is done and we'll abide by it. But don't expect us to be happy about it.

Pretty much when a nation sides against you and starts screening for the nation your at war with it generally goes without saying all previous alliance deals become null and void. Just sayin

I'm not one for drama but I will explain my view on this. We never had any intention of taking Bovenwinds or Leewards from the Swedes in the first place. But the war happened and the Swedes joined it on the Danes side and it was the base we needed to attack the Danish home ports. So I spent an hour or two of my game time flipping these two ports essentially because the Dane's made me do it as they weren't going to stop the shenanigans in our back yard till we got into theirs. So if someone is going to collect the 1 week of CM marks its going to take the Swedes to flip those back I just as soon see it was me rather than the Danes. A decent pay back for my trouble. However, that isn't what happened. The Danes flipped under a treaty that doesn't let me stop them and now they collect the CMs until the Swedes eventually get around to flipping them. This is essentially no different than had we just signed a treaty giving both ports to the Danes. Which is not what we did. So lets recap. The Danes gave me an awesome deal where they take two colonies temporarily and we flip port for CMs. That sounded pretty kewl. But then it became evident they were pushing the line of that deal to permanent hold those two counties until the alliance system came back into the game. Seriously? This was essentially the Danes attempting to squeeze just a little more out of the deal. Then we fought back about it and they got all offended that we weren't happy with the deal so they said they would one port us till we quit France. That didn't work out and we spent hours of game time pushing them back where they belong. Then came the next peace treaty as it was almost signed the Danes came back to squeeze a little more out of it and insisted we give them BT at the last minute. Well that didn't Fly. So we started invading them. Danes responded with basic cutter semi exploit crap and wasted hours of my game time. Then they got into the Tribunal for using French alts? to finish a flip of their main production port in their best time frame. Not honorable no matter how you look at it. So then we get the 40min peace treaty as the Danes try yet again to squeeze more out of us. So we attacked them again and this time they sign it. But now they declare a loop hole that lets the swedes give them territory we were giving the swedes so they can squeeze just a little bit more out of us. Duncan, if you can't see why we're still pissed at the Danes you aren't looking at this very hard. They always stick their hands back into the cookie jar to get one more for themselves.

It is true and it isn't. Too many players looking to "win". Need players that just want to play.

This is the right way to play the game under the new rules set. Each nations capital trading potential is income to that nation. It should be guarded just as Taurus suggests. It's to easy for neighbor traders to exploit and essentially steel all this potential wealth of a nation. Old style peace treaties where no one shoots ships at sea will not work. I think it is the greatest flaw in the Danish treaty. Christiansted will be flooded just as Gustavia. Fort Royal is just as bad. Now I don't doubt a fair amount of this is from French shipping magnates but I'm also seeing a lot of Alts. Mainly pirate Alts that put up contracts to buy all our goods and then sell them to our capitals while taking the money to Mortimer town or where ever. We see similar things happening in port battles to scam the CM marks off a nation. Instead of old style "total peace" treaties we should be adjusting them to account for the Alt problem. First off, treaties should have a NO capital trading clause just like described above where neighbor traders can and will be captured or sunk. Also treaties should have mutual enforcement and policing clauses. So if Swedish leaders identify an alt stealing their stuff they call up France and upon request France goes over and sinks the guy and/or camps him. Similarly French leaders could call upon Swedish enforcers to deal with their alt problems.

I'm not completely irritated yet. But if I got to haul all this stuff back across the map, home to France, after just moving it YESTERDAY. I might get there.

丹麦的长期目标是什么？ 你希望在游戏中完成什么？

如果瑞典把它送给大不列颠呢？

Though we all do love Microbiology, who doesn't? An in game name or signature would be appreciated. I get the frustration. I really do. If you read Chialang's post his frustration comes from Elric II disappearing suddenly and without warning. I suspect this was possibly a translator and diplomat they were comfortable with. Johnny K, I believe, was well intentioned and also seems to be someone Chialang is comfortable with. But he simply lost control of the narrative on the French side and everything blew up from there. Good bad or whatever it just didn't work out. Rather than simply say "oops" and move on he tried to defend and force things and so it just got worse. Even if it was the right thing to do it still got worse due to the method. Now also by Chialang's post we see ICS is at the heart of this. The initial attacks on the Dane's were by ICS. The initial deal and its sequential confusion were in ICS hands. However, ICS also did in fact take on the responsibility for reparations. But after that there was some TS convo intercepted by other clans that exposed a possible backdoor deal by ISC. Now to be fair, I was not there and that could be real or it could have been a troublemaker inside the ICS TS. Problem is that many, good or bad, believed it and then the Danes accidentally made it happen as foretold. So this looks all really really bad. Worst thing ICS could do at this point was continue to fight the rest of the nation rather than just apologize and make up. But instead ICS withdrew from the nation essentially leaving everyone else with the big mess. Again, well meaning or not, it destroyed the trust. Then in the peace negotiations where BLACK and others are trying to patch all this up the ICS, again, get caught admittedly screen shooting the French private comms and posting them to the Danes. This may not have been ill intentioned and perhaps was meant to further communications. But once again it was the worst way to handle the situation at the moment. Permission to send it to the Danes should have been respectfully requested first. It would have cleared up a lot. I'm not trying to pick on anyone but you have to admit the handling of various events in this by the ICS certainly could have been better. As to the toxicity level I see it too. It would be best if everyone could hold back in Nat chat. But it is what it is and only the foolish take their battles there.

我现在明白了是否要修复此问题并包括 ics？

My thoughts and only my thoughts. If Leewards become Swedish soon I am happy Bovenwind's could be Dutch home port. Dutch in the North could be fun. ICS - need to start helping France

Swedes turning around and giving "home" counties to Danes is not honorable to the spirit of the agreement. It shifts the balance of ports agreed upon. This is no different than CCCP agreed to flip Bridgetown for CMs and then twisting it into early AM flip to control which players got the CMs. You act dishonorably again sir. Bach to Chialang understanding - in 12 yrs with The Purge i say the term "Viking Raiders" describes the Purge well. But I'm more a strategist gamer with Viking raider tendencies. So let me explain this in my terms. Danes were <2 weeks from being perpetually one ported and we both know it. Danes also would have deserved it for what you did to other French players last year. We beat you on the sea. We figured out how to beat your off hours port flip tactic. Those last two ports (Road Town and San Juan) being flipped on your Saturday was no accident. We were about to prove a 25 man brawling PB fleet can smash your dual boxed line fighting fleet. We weren't just going to take your land we were going to take your reputation too. That NAP at the top of this page isn't protecting France from Danes. It's protecting you from us. Act like a dishonorable horses butt at your own peril. And remember, I'm the nice one telling you this. Have a nice day ?

Red Duke has a point. If CCCP takes the Leewards or Bovenwinds, even if the intention is to just have Sweden take it back from them instead of France, it still acts like a forward staging base. The spirit of the agreement is better honored if the Swedes take those two counties themselves and it puts more separation between France and Danes which is probably good at the moment. "-- France and Denmark have immediately stopped all hostilities against each other. No hostile port battles and no OW PvP between France and Denmark" "Further clarification on the regions - All nations within this agreement are allowed to take back said "home" regions at the earliest time they see fit."

Until is see Chialang or JOJO posting it I'm not believing it yet.

You get the point. On paper the Franco/Spanish fleet shoutd have been superior based on ship stats (gear). But Villenueve knew it wasn't when it came to skills. So he avoided Nelson for months until Napoleon made him commit to a real battle he had little faith in. Until the day Napoleon made Villenueve commit the Franco/Spainish fleet appeared superior or equal. From the political/diplomatic stand point of threat level, as long as Villenueve kept his fleet mobile across the map and not in actual battle, Britains dominance of the sea was in doubt. Anyway, there is influential power, real power and perceived power. Most gamers never think or see beyond percieved power. Napoleon opted to contest a stronger real power with his perceived power and lost all three. In NA huge fleets of 1st rates are a strong perceived power. But that doesn't alway equate to real and influential power. Often does but not always and certainly not in every situation. Though many mmo truly do come down to just best gear, NA has a higher requirement of player skills for success. Also numbers of cheap gear can overwhelm lesser numbers of top end gear. It also has resources that far out pace the real world. As such smaller nation can project and sway the various levels of the powers. In this thread many are suggesting that the USA is powerless simply because they cannot project the same levels of real power as the pirate nation in one isolated portion of the battlefield. The USA team simply needs to think broader in scope. On a side note. I wouldn't be surprised if the remaining USA team didn't ally with the pirate team. Strategically it is the simplest move to solve the most issues. Might require some soul searching though.

We definitely need a mechanic to allow clans to work out their differences in game and with minimum Dev intervention if any.