fox2run

BTW, there is room for improvement on tagging. I think that fixed positions for the parts in battle would give better gameplay. In that case reinforcements wouldn't certainly surround your ship out of the blue.

Yes - Im not saying that AI should be removed. Im stating that in order to get a good PvP experience the design of the game should be around PvP. How can we have fun gameplay? If I would like to be a part of a big battle, I need the following stuf: 1) be a long time member of a clan 2) be a happy owner of a first rate ship of the line 3) to know the timers in each port (for those that dont know, there should be a webpage with the times somewhere) 4) wait for the enemy to show up at a port that maybe - maybe not will be attacked. 5) be the first of 25 lucky guys joining I wonder how many Nelsons or Hornblowers we have lost on the path... When the battle timers where longer, there where actually bigger battles in OW becourse plp could read a warning at the nations chat or maybe on a clan TS. They sailed out - joined the battle and had fun. Now you will rarely participate in any bigger engagement. If you engage at all. I have the feeling that it is not ok anymore as plp get upset if they are attacked (on a PvP server - remember!). The devs seems to listen a lot to the PvE oriented player base, that like to harvest AI fleets in peace without interference. (Still on the PvP server). That leaves us, the Nelsons, in between the PvE peace or the heavy and time-consuming clan-based PB system. And there we are in a vacuum...

Hmm. Why on earth shouldnt it be possible to leave a port and come to aid in a battle? Makes no sence to me. However: Theres something completely wrong with the overall gameplay approach, I think. Its getting too focused on small details where as the big picture is lost. What KIND of game do we want? Do we want small skirmishes, large battles, arena-fights, mixed battles, SOL-only battles? What do we want? Make a descision and THEN fix the OW battle mechanics. I would be a favour of an OW with a lot action in it. I like to see big battles with all kind of ships in them... An unpredictable and dangerous world. Not just small, controlled skirmishes where PvP fights are seen as "ganking". Its the whole idea behind PvP that disturbs me right now. We need to think of the game as a place WITHOUT AI alltogether. Clear the table of AI in your heads and THEN make mechanisms that would enhance a good PvP experience for the newcomers and hardcore SOL clans altogether.

The 5 min timer gave fun and large battles - and the posibility to help friends that got outgunned... I dont know why they left that. It was a good anti-gank measure and you had the feeling that you could enter battles and help the nation. Now its more like a personal 1 vs 2-3 or 4 ships. Pretty boring compared to when I purchased the game.... I would say the value of the game is about halfed since then.... I want 50% return pls. ;-)

Short battle timers favours "ganking". Long battle timers favours safe home waters and large scale battles. Now how on earth would you like to have short timers in order to prevent ganking? I simply dont get it. The only argument is something vague about the scale of OW and battles... Read my lips when I say that we need 5, 10 or 15 min join timers if you wants to get rid of ganking.

I had so much fun in the days with 5min timer. Epic battles on large scale evolved. I really miss that The game ain't that fun anymore...

The word "limit" is very bad in a pvp. Also I think that the discussion lack a dimension of macro-approach. What kind of game do you want? Do you like big battles at open sea? Small battles at open sea? Open pvp play? Steered pvp play? Do you like to give players an opportunity to help friends in need? Do you like to have a controlled feel good pve-world? After such considerations a system can be made. Right now it's completely random and as a consumer, I like to know what's the idea of the game. Personally I like to sail in OW and engage in large battles. I dont mind loosing ships as pvp suits me. Therefor I'm in favour of long or no limits for joining battles. Gameplay will be better and more fun for me that way. For sure.

The 1.5 was a mere disaster IMO.

The 5 min. timer was good as you where able to help fellow guys in trouble... A distress call in nations chat - and you where going into action. After the rule where given up the complains about "ganking" got worse and the devs wanted to stop this. Unfortunately they use the wrong medication as they constrain the possibility to aid and reinforce players in dire straits which leads to even fewer options to help traders, lone wolfs etc. In the end youll land on 1 vs 1 ship battles only with a BR of 1:1. And thats plain stupid. Given the size of the world and the shrinking player base (especially after the 1.5 rule) a 5 min join timer would be preferable. Most times you cant come to rescue and provide "anti-gank" measures. Anti-ganking is IMHO best done by clans, players and nations themselves instead of troublesome and constraining rules done by devs.

Becourse of the scale of the map and the lack of players, many distress calls are in the 3-5 min. area. Thats why 2 min is too little to come to traders aid. 15 seconds, BR-rules - all that make it relatively safe to "gank" as you call it. Nobody will be able to help. The ganking-complainers began whining when the 5 min rule where abandoned. Now it has become a problem and the suggested solution is lesser joining times, lesser radius etc. that can only enhance "ganking". Please put 5 min back.

Omg. Please listen to PvPers. Most plp don't want any limits. We want options to fight in OW. No limits, no restrictions. If you go back to that silly pve rule, this game will die. Iron men on wooden ships, please.

The opposers of ganking (another term for pvp) like short or no joining timers. That's odd. The longer the timer the more likely reinforcements will arrive that could even the odds. Do we have two camps here... One that is in favor of pvp and another one that dislike it... ?

The battles should be open as long as they last. If I have a ship and pass a battle, I should be able to join. Its too weird to close battles. I wonder why you did it in the first place?

I like your tagging idea Niels - but im also favorite to larger battles in OW - and they almost only occur if plp can join a battle over a longer duration... and to sail and come to aid is realistic in my view. If the join - time is longer then there will be no ganking-complains whatsoever as homewaters will be safe-havens.

+1 Would give pvp a hole new challenge... the role of frontlines, freetowns etc will change dramatically.... and epic battles will occur.. But I guess you will have some PvE guys complaining about being disturbed when battles escalate

Its a discussion between supporters of a war game on one side and an arena based game on the other... We will never agree But if I was a dev, I would: 1) make 3 different game modes (warthunder) 2) shrink the world a bit (if more and more players join the world could be expanded again.

+1

I still like the idea that an ongoing battle can be reinforced. Make the homewaters safer and creates larger battled... In war it's not always about "wysiwyg". I still like the 5 min timer so you could aid a distress-call nearby. Good for gameplay and nation based strategy and communities.

Oddly enough this is just another problem that players can solve by themselves... swarm the cutters with mercuries... Everytime someone has a bad game experience they wants the devs to do something about it... Try organise, counter etc.... it is possible to actually solve things out without the devs...

The best option is to make an OW where large, open battles are frequent and the port battles less so... IMHO.

I would say that Niels Therkelsens suggestion combined with some easy non-pvp missions for beginners could do the trick. In a pvp world there must be some hazards... Otherwise it may be better to quit the OW and focus on historical battles like Trafalgar, Copenhagen, Cap Saint Vincent etc. and ladders. Or maybe make a more clear distinction between PVE and PVP server.

Theres a big common task for a nation to clear up gankers and protect own waters. Thats part of the game that clans and players organise this. Ive always enjoyed that aspect of the game. There are some flaws regarding the pirate nation though, where they can exploit eachother to come out from a hidden battle. Maybe there is a task to recontruct the pirate nation and what a pirate is. Ive tried to get in a pvp battle with the new 1.5 BR limit. It didnt work out at all. Yesterday evening a skilled group of swedish gankers couldnt be engaged proberly becourse of it. Let alone the frustrating task of splitting up force in order to hunt the gankers down. A lot of sailing and very little (almost zero) action. PvP are suffering as feared. There must be other means to get new players into the game without them feeling it be to hardcore. Maybe some beginner-missions in invisible status? And after a certain rank they could be rdy for the real thing? I think a majority of players wants do have a real fight with other players without risking all of their ships. So maybe we need more xp and gold for pvp-fights? And maybe it could a good idea to change the fight-rewarding mechanism so it is still rewarding to stay in a loosing/lost battle? Regards

Dear admins: this is not a bad idea at all... small skirmishes can develop into large furballs... with the chance for traders etc to get away...

Hear, hear!

That is a good point. Im wondering why pve is even allowed on PvP server. Allow only PvP and make it bearable to loose a ship. In this way a lot of battles will take place.