Archaos

There is no reason now to try and make Reals from crafting and selling repairs when you can make so much Reals doing passenger deliveries. I predicted this would happen when they changed the rewards for delivery missions. There was some form of balance before where people had to find various ways to make Reals and one of those ways was crafting repairs and selling them, now there is no need.

I already disproved this in another thread, but you still like to keep repeating it. The insurance hardly covers the cost of the crafted ship let alone the cannons, while the person who has multiple DLC ships can just redeem and sell one to get Reals for cannons.

But in the opening post Admin said that with the new port upgrades non-DLC players will be able to produce ships with just a few clicks similar to the DLC owners, so my suggestion is to put both sets of players on equal footing, so both can get normal wood ships with the same ease, but if they want rare wood ships they have to put in some more effort.

I think this is a bad idea and it will just make all but the biggest clans reluctant to develop a port. If a port is captured it should be reset to an undeveloped state as the leaving nation would have destroyed as much infrastructure as possible to deny access to the enemy. At the very least the new owner of the port should have to but some development in to bring the port back up to developed status, i.e. simulate the repair of burnt warehouses, destroyed fortifications etc.

Why dont they make the DLC ships the same as ordinary ships then, i.e. you can get the ship with one click if you want it made from normal easy access woods, but if you want it made from rare woods you have to have the rare wood to make it. This way the DLC people will have the same system as other non-DLC players.

With the current passenger delivery missions there is no need for people to be given extra Reals. They can jump into a basic cutter and easily earn 40~50k Reals in a few minutes just delivering passengers to a port close by.

Sorry but I disagree, the grinding of ship slots is a huge effort that would prevent people from playing on both servers if this suggestion was implemented. I could agree with knowledge books not being transferable, but even in this case what would be so wrong in them being transferable, the PvP players want good opponents to face and they are always saying that knowledge books dont make much difference, so why would they care if these were transferable. I still believe the main reason suggestions like this will never get implemented is because the hard core PvP players want easy targets, they want to be able to jump people that are attacking AI for grinding purposes.

And so what if the person has leveled up on the PvE server, why is that a problem if he is now on the PvP server to PvP. Or is it that you want easy targets to hit who are low level or leveling up? Are you the sort of player who enjoys your PvP by jumping players who are already fighting AI? It should make no difference where the person has leveled up.

Sshhh, dont say that you will have Jodgi here telling you off.

Admin is adamant now that War server is for war and if you want PvE then go to Peace server, so I do not see that happening somehow.

And what would be so wrong about sharing xp across servers, why do people have problems with others levelling up in safety? If people are really looking for quality PvP then it should not matter what rank or XP the other has, in fact the more experienced they are the more likely they will give you a better fight. Of course I will get the usual put downs about Rear Admirals not even knowing how to manual sail etc and how they should cut their teeth on PvP from an early stage so they can "git gud" but in reality all these people want is some more cannon fodder for the grind rather than good fights. Allow cross server XP and slot grinding and most of your complaints about people on war server not wanting to fight go away.

I think what he means is that he was close to the swords of an OW battle but clicking on a ship that was past it. The game sometimes shows the tag circle of the ship you clicked on and the join circles for the OW battle.

Take part in port battles and become lord protector for that port and once a week on a Monday after maintenance you will get 1 Victory mark as long as you are still Lord Protector for that port. For multiple ports you get more on a scale.

Now I can see why people stop even trying to put logic to their arguments.

I think I have proved that your insurance figures only work when you take out things like LH and you leave your computer on overnight with your keyboard wedged to prevent logout so you can afk fish. Any slight difference a non DLC player may get due to insurance is more than off set by DLC players being able to redeem and insta sell their ship to get doubloons (may not be much now with just Herc and LRQ, but with 3 more DLC's and more on the way it will be a big income stream). Even Admin couldnt respond after he tried to make out I was using bogus figures and I proved I was using what was in game. At best insurance covers the cost of most of the ship materials and nothing more, so please stop using this as an argument.

But don't you see it becomes a self fulfilling prediction, because the Devs can then say "look the introduction of these new DLC ships has led to X number of battles" and give us some other meaningless statistics to back up the case. Edit: a couple of quotes regarding statistics “There are three types of lies -- lies, damn lies, and statistics.” ― Benjamin Disraeli “Facts are stubborn things, but statistics are pliable.” ― Mark Twain “99 percent of all statistics only tell 49 percent of the story.” ― Ron DeLegge II, Gents with No Cents

Well I just took the prices from the trader tool to give an indication of what the price would be using NPC prices. If people sell to the NPC, what price does the NPC resell at? Edit: I have checked and the NPC does sell for those prices when someone sells the items to them, so my prices were valid.

It means if I buy the oak, fir, hemp etc from NPC

But cant you see how the changes that are being made with PZ's and DLC ships make the game more like a lobby game. Fair enough people like yourself do not like the Eco game and just want easy to get ships to fight with, but surely they can come up with a system that allows you do that by creating the interdependence between the different types of play. For people to keep playing a game they should not be forced to do anything. Whats wrong with a centralized trading hub? Oh, its not very age of sail, but magically producing a ship out of nothing is? Why dont DLC ships have to be redeemed in ports where you have a shipyard? They are just there sitting in your back pocket ready to to appear whenever you want. I would say all ships put up for sale should appear in every port and they can be purchased from any port, but ships only get delivered to a port where you have a shipyard or if you do not have a shipyard then to your capital outpost or a port you designate in advance as your delivery outpost. The same would apply when you are redeeming DLC ships. Off course some will not like this because they want to get back to the action quickly if they get sunk, but how "age of sail" was it for you to sink someone then get out of battle to find him there again in a new ship ready to engage you again? If you had a common market for ship sales then you would see prices become more reasonable.

We all know that you would just love a game like NAL, but that is not an OW game. The problem is people like you are influencing the Devs to make the game more and more like a lobby based instant action game, and fair enough if thats what they want then just bring out a game like that and be done with it, stop trying to pretend that you have an OW MMO sandbox game when you do not. Are you really advocating that people leave their computers switched on overnight so they can AFK fish to play a game? the environmentalists will be coming for you. I do really hope that they bring out laws banning games that encourage people to leave their computers running when they are not actually at them. You keep mentioning about the high prices of ships and how crafters are gouging you, but that is only possible because of the lack of a proper market place. If you open up the market, make ships easy to craft, give better access to rare woods and create competition then prices will drop. At the moment those high priced ships only sell when someone is desperate for a ship to get into a fight close by or they need a certain class of ship in a hurry.

I did a few calculations for Oak/Oak ships and the results are as follows. (I have used the extract costs for materials and not added in anything for LH permits or Doubloons. Cannons have not being considered either) Renomee - Cost 10,100 Reals - Insurance pays 8,241 Reals (Permit also required) - NPC buy materials cost - 7,200 Reals Snow - Cost 3,816 Reals - Insurance pays 3,050 Reals - NPC buy materials cost - 7,031 Reals Rattlesnake Heavy - Cost 5,636 Reals - Insurance pays 3,655 Reals (Permit also required) - NPC buy materials cost - 10,174 Reals Cerberus - Cost 8,509 Reals - Insurance pays 6,952 Reals - NPC buy materials cost - 15,355 Bucentaure - Cost 59,666 Reals - Insurance pays 66,209 (6,978 Doubloons and permit also required) - NPC buy materials cost - 105,321 Reals USS United States - Cost 33,922 Reals - Insurance pays 55,651 Reals (3,632 Doubloons and permit also required) - NPC buy materials cost - 59,754 Reals So as you can see the insurance helps but does not cover your losses unless you are getting free provisions by afk fishing. I have also added in the cost if you were to buy your materials from the NPC. All the insurance figures are taken from my own mail notes after losses apart from the USS United States which was taken from your figures.

The thing is you are using your own playing style to discard certain costs, but then go on to condemn crafters for listing at exorbitant prices. A regular crafter of ships cannot spend the time AFK fishing to get provisions and even if he did it would be a struggle to build multiple ships with what he gets. You also have to allow some use of purchased labor hours for a crafter that regularly crafts to sell. So allowing for the having to extract provisions as in my original Essex calculation you have a crafters cost without LH of just under 20k for ease of calculation. What should he sell it for? What would you call a fair price? It costs him at least 10% to list it and that is for 9 days with no guarantee it will sell. If it does not sell he is already 2k down. He may list that ship at a price you are willing to pay but it is at a port you never visit, how do you know that that ship is there for that price as the game has no way of letting you know. Even if you did find out about it and wanted to buy, it may be half way across the map in a port you do not have an outpost in, would you sail there in a basic cutter and sell it just to buy that ship and then sail that ship back to where you want it? I think not. Even if you have an outpost there you may have already used your one teleport for the day so cannot get it to where you want. This is what I mean about the game not providing a proper market place for ship sales and that is why ships are expensive and crafters usually only craft to order. Now compare this to the DLC player who needs a ship, all he has to do is go to the port he wants to be at and in a few clicks he has the ship he wants made out of whatever woods he wants, he has spent no time, used no LH, spent no Reals apart from those he needs to put guns on the ship. All very convenient and what some players want, but you have to admit it totally kills the need to craft ships and puts the DLC players at a greater advantage. Okay it was not too bad with just the LRQ and Herc as DLC ships, but now there are more and heavier ships being added to DLC with more likely in future. What also has to be considered is the amount of reals that can now be injected into the market by just redeeming these ships and selling them straight away if you do not currently need them. I do not know what the NPC sell prices will be but an Aggie sells for over 20k and so does a Wasa and these are ships similar to what is being introduced. So there is 20k a day to pay for your cannons. With 5 DLC ships on a day you are not likely to need them is going to net you something like 50k just redeeming them and selling them. If this is the way the devs want to go they may as well remove crafting from the game altogether and make it so that the purchase of the basic game allows the redeeming of all the normal ships once per day or whatever interval they choose depending on rating and then have your special ships which are DLC. But hey wait, doesn't that then remove the need for special woods and other economy stuff? and doesn't that then reduce the need for RvR to access those items? So why then even bother with an OW? lets just make it a lobby game and forget all the beautiful OW. Sorry for rambling, but I do seriously think the game is moving in the wrong direction with these DLC's, not because they are P2W but because they kill other aspects of the game that people love.

Well thats what it works out as, the only thing that can be reduced from that is the provisions that you can get for free by catching fish as you sail round and converting them to provisions, but I doubt many PvP players do that. The examples I have given if you made your own provisions rather than farmed them would be Niagara 3156 Reals, which is less than the insurance but I am sure still not enough to cover crafted cannons. Essex 9832 Reals, but I do not know what the insurance pays on an essex. If I get time tomorrow I will work out the cost of a few more.

I have redone calculation for Niagara using material extraction costs and not counting LH or permit costs and it still works out at 5481 Reals to build and you only get back 4432, so you are still short before you start to count cannons. When you throw in permit cost, cannons, rare woods cost and LH you make a big loss as compared to someone who can redeem a rare wood ship daily and that does not even take into account the time to gather the materials to your crafting port and then you have your single tow/day (also add the cost of the tow) to where you want it, while the DLC player can redeem his ship where he needs it. Edit: in case you have not done it yet an Essex works out at 19282 for Oak/Oak not counting LH, permits, guns etc.

I just did the calculation for a Niagara and it cost 10,022 Reals to build an Oak/Oak one buying all the materials from NPC, If you factor in the LH based on 500hrs for 2500 doubloons and a sell rate of 4 Reals for Doubloon (NPC price) that would add another 3720 Reals and we havent even considered the cost of the permit which is hidden behind PvP RNG, while the last Niagara I lost which was Teak/WO paid out 4423 Reals in insurance around a third of my cost to build and that is not counting cannons.