jodgi

Yea, the plotly thing is sorted manually. I have to populate the chart one graph at a time however well I might prepare the data. I would like to avoid manual work since the infogram chart is populated automatically with a few clicks. I'm considering making additional charts as @maturin suggested. How would I name them and which ships would be included in each sub chart? Fore and aft, medium?!, frigates and lineships?

Ok, guys! This is what you're talking about so much; Getting new players to come, but more importantly to stay. @C0R0NERcz is a new forum account though we can't know about his game rank. So here's a new guy expressing frustration about losing his shit. I feel for him, whenever I've had to do eco activities I've been extremely loss averse. I used to make insane trading ships that noone could catch unless I was afk. Now they changed traders so anything but Tlynx is easy to catch. And the people cheered. But the pain got so severe we had to make safe zones. I don't know what truly motivates sandbox dudes, I assume that's the kind of guys you want to recruit as the pure pvp players drift away on a sad breeze. They don't want to play on the PVE server but they don't want to be interrupted on PVP server. I stopped chasing traders a long, long time ago as it's inherently boring and I don't role-play at all. I only nab whatever's in front of me and that I do without discrimination: "Great job, jodgi!"... Maybe? I took about 300k worth of stuff from this daredevil or fool or clueless new swede. Maybe he accepted the risk or maybe he ragequit? I'm not ashamed. I don't mind if we chase away every single last sandbox/eco/trader dude on the server. I don't need them. Like @Malachy says: "They're useless for the purposes of the pure-pvp player" (paraphrased). But there are quite a few of you who say you like the sandbox with the combined silly eco and PVE combined with PVP terror. What do you guys REALLY want when you have to put your money where the mouth is? Some of you are opposed to safe zones but you want to cultivate new guys. It's like watching a dog chase it's tail. You want trade wars, you want victims but noone signs up for that job. Then we blame the devs right and left. As usual I have no solutions as I've come to think you guys are impossibly divided in impulse driven needs and ideas, but consider this: Would super speed traders be better than safe zones? We could go back to traders only smart, grouped up or dedicated trader hunters could catch. Or do we need to protect guys making cash in missions as well? OW has taught me one thing first and foremost: To be supercalifragilisticexpialidociously vary of eco games.

That's where I come from. Big maps, RvR, planning, coordination, cooperation, role-play, war, ingress - attack - egress, reenactment, group fights, duels both planned and spontaneous. You could do what you wanted. No eco in sight. I thought NA OW would be like that and looked forward to it. eco is the largest single factor of us losing the players we say we need so much. I'm a Legends player, sure, but I don't joke when I say I'm available for OW play. I simply have limits to the shit I'm willing to wade through.

Why not? Also eco =/= mmo. I know the remaining pop loves eco regardless of what it does to the game. Is this a joke only eco guys would get? I don't even know if it's directed at slim, me or something else...

Do you really think we caused so much trouble to make it a "bad position"? It may be perception bias but to me it seems there is a lot more negative noise coming from sandbox=eco fans and now you RvR types. I don't mean to liken you to the eco dudes because you seem to have enjoyed what you enjoy up until now. The eco dudes can never get enough and won't be satisfied until we're full on EVE or beyond. I've seen positive posts from OW hunters and RvR fans among the negative posts, but I've never seen an eco guy that seems satisfied. It's weird that people say OW needs more players to work while at the same time being adamant about not accomodating pure-pvp'ers with note ships, pvp exclusive rewards, premium loss-exempt ships, admiralty career path and other things that would help us avoid gameplay we find boring. The sandbox is only about freedom of choice as long as everyone gives up the right to avoid eco, eh? How can people complain about server population when they insist on making it very hard to recruit and keep pure-pvp'ers? The devs have had the door open a crack towards these things but it is the sandbox=eco players who have helped close that door. Now they come to the forum blaming the devs and demanding more players. They've helped make the bed but they refuse to sleep in it. They imagine there are thousands of people beyond those already in OW and those who have tried OW but couldn't deal with the fun of eco. Good luck with that. All the while we sit here on the fence waving, ready to come back if you just let off on the eco oppression.

Yes, I'm really happy for NAL. I enjoyed OW when there was nothing to do but fight.

Is it easy to find other players that want to fight? I ask no other questions, I care for no other thing, everything else is entirely insignificant.

Could be done. I'll see if I can do it without making a lot of work for myself.

Lol, doom and gloom. Legends will be super fun, I'm not gonna sit here and mope about.

I wish, dude. I don't have the tools nor the skills, sorry.

I would personally enjoy the OW game if it was filled with guys who wanted to fight, regardless. So my personal better idea, that I know won't happen, btw, is to rip out eco to get rid of fear of loss. When there is nothing to do but OW hunting and RvR then people would do it... all the time. I've played a game like this. Fighting is the most basic concept of NA and I really can criticise the eco concept if I don't like it based on what it does to the fighting part. Maybe? But I know of no eco game that is not based on PVE activities as a base for eco stuff, you could perhaps enlighten me? Fear of loss, extreme timidness, exaggerated ganking mentality. Players have ground bots or alt-tabbed with trade goods and they'd rather not risk wasting that time by losing it doing something they actually like. I've been bitching about this for 18 months now, though I've piped down a bit after Legends was announced. This sounds fantastic! Where does it work like this? If EVE eco is based on a mountain of PvE, who has made this work? We thought we would have career paths early on; that people could choose to be a fighting captain sponsored by the admiralty. This never happened and I think I know why: Just consider the resistance to insta-mark ships (which I think is a great idea for my way of enjoying the game). Career captains would have been combat/pvp mark ships times ten. I tried to make it work for me, I really did. After EA I was a few days behind some russian and baltic in the race to get to crafting level 50. I had an alt in frikkin' Mexico buying up iron during the "great iron depression" and we had some shenanigans going at bermuda during the fine-woods era. I just find all eco gameplay to be extremely inferior to NA PvP, it's little crumbs of fun in an ocean of afk-sailing, alt tabbing and general boredom. I've spent months looking for the fun, the "meaning" and the "depth" the eco pundits talk so much about. Sometimes I think you're pulling my tail and other times I suspect you're all actively self-deluded. I'll be super-duper happy in Legends, so you need not worry. You're prolly better off without guys like me.

If "everything else is working" we end up like EVE and the atrocious pvp/pve ratio they have. Your quote is an ideal not even EVE has come close to achieving. You assume too much. A precious few "extreme pvp'ers" enjoy the game, most of them are gone. Please keep to the same standards you expect of others: versus: ___ I have no answers for OW in general, but I'll hint towards what i think. Eco/PVE is a tremendous time sink for the devs, it seems impossible to please eco/PvE'ers, eco/PvE is a massive thorn in PvP's side and I see no positives to any eco or PVE but I've seen all the griefing, exploits, timidness and boredom eco leads to.

The more PvP the better the game.

Hmmm... How would you like premium ships in game? I asked for that a few weeks after the economy came to OW but it was met with some resistance from certain players who aren't here anymore.

I categorically stay away from any and all forms of PvE. I came to NA without knowing there would be a PvE element. I was lured in by fantastic PvP during Sea Trials. I probably wouldn't have been here if I found NA post EA. "Oh, look at that video with fighting ships... That looks really..." ... "Oh, no! It's a little like EVE but with sailing ships, how unfortunate!" I grasp the concept, don't worry, but in my taste it is inferior to pure-PvP however well it's made. For fantastic NA I'm actually willing to compromise a little and pay a small fun-tax of interacting with a computer if it's so important to some people. But the time commitment with PvE to get a competitive ship in OW is far beyond what I can force myself to bear. On top of an already ubearable situation eco/PvE adds PvP timidness which I have no use for, they call it "depth" and "meaning" ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. I've tried so hard to make it work for me, I'm sorry I wasn't able to.

This must be the PvE mindset I often wonder about. "We need more stuff then everything will be fine..." until they've exhausted that content and go back to "We need more..." I've played a pure-PvP game where there was no grind. Almost full access to "end-game content" from the start. By your definition that game started out with "there is nothing to do". I played for years. You PvE guys are like sharks with their funky digestive system: Forever looking for food, always eating but never happy no matter how much stuff is thrown at you. It will be this perpetual purgatory unless you reach nirvana and start living for "The Fight".

You forgot the most important bit: EVE: Absolute trash fighting mechanics. NA: Glorious fighting mechanics.

I WANNA LIVE OAK CONNIE THAT GOES 14 KNOTS NAOW! BCUZ HISTORRY! Oh, I remember...

Those are some rose-tinted glasses, son.

I'd love to help, truly. We need to liberate the fighting equipment from the PVE lords.

It doesn't have a big player pop any longer, it's true. It made me real sad when the euro pop almost disappeared and I couldn't realistically keep on playing with the still healthy US pop. Keep in mind those numbers are steam only. It's only been on steam a month or two (?) and most players still download client directly and launch the old way. I could dig around if you're really interested in true numbers? Right now there are 125 guys in "open melee" room and US primetime hasn't started yet. So the steamspy (?) numbers only show an unverifiable portion of the actual server pop. I repeat: It no longer has a large player base, I'm not pretending it does. You know why it still "works"?.. Everyone there have a common goal: To fight. There is no grinding money in safe-zone, traderunning, hauling, port-clicking and all those parallell-solo-multiplayer activities. There is always many times more action in AH with 300 guys than in NA with 2000 guys (or EVE for that matter, I think maybe EVE has a worse pvp/pve ratio than NA). NA will never be like AH. That's not the point. Based on how time consuming putting in a way richer PVE world into NA with a corresponding "deep and meaningful" eco is, do you think it's realistic to hope for it?

AH maps and PvP are driven by conquest, so it's not only a dogfight arena. There is no reason to fight in AH, nothing matters and even losing airfields or the entire war is completely without meaning and consequence. <gasp>. Yet it's been going on for almost two decades while these perfect sandboxes come and go. You're right there are some PVE elements. Ack-Ack at airfields to provide a destroyable safe-zone. Carrier groups that sail around aimlessly unless a player takes direct control. Bomber buffs can bomb HQ or factories that can influence... I forget, I've never paid attention. This kind of PVE content is "perfect" in the sense it's completely optional. People bomb shit for the role-play or to help cap an airfield. You never NEED to PVE. If NA was like this I would never have uttered the slightest moan about eco/pve. Average players are forced to PVE in order to pay their way not to mention grinding bots for fighting equipment required to stay competitive.

Inorite?

Notice how I did not mention wot because you would go "naw, naw, mate, that's a MOBA game."

Lol, ok. I'm half prepared to hear it isn't an MMO because it isn't also an RPG. Aces High (and before that Air Warrior and Warbirds). AH has an even longer track record than EVE, if such pissing contest stuff matters to you.