Map location indicator needed. Realism

[ObiQuiet]

Thank you for the compliments, much appreciated. Agree on the adoption into the game itself, that's one of our hopes too.

Personally, I'd want the ability to put the game map, chat windows, etc on a 2nd screen.

[Aubrey]

Realism

The hardcore players claim to want realism because this is a skill-based game, and somehow think that getting the GPS coordinates from a debugging feature adds to that, whereas knowing where you are on a map is unthinkable blasphemy.

Uhm, you might want to read the thread again... -.-

[ObiQuiet]

TDAMap.com

"Everyone can use TDAMap.com" seems to be a popular argument. So basically you have the tools to get your location with low effort, but only the veterans know about these hacks and tools that are spread across the internet. This is a great way to exclude new players for no good reason.

 

You might read this rant of mine. The point of that isn't that everyone should use player made tools, just that they serve as prototypes that we can discuss pros and cons of.

 

Also, given the number of NEW players who are perplexed, they player made tools are a way to KEEP them in the game, IMO.

[Ghroznak]

Personally, I'd want the ability to put the game map, chat windows, etc on a 2nd screen.

 

I assume you mean sort of like undocking different windows in FSX and P3D (if you are familiar with flight sims).

 

I do this a lot in flight sims. Open the radio stack and undock it, then drag it to 2nd monitor so I can see and operate it on 2nd screen while it's still active in the game itself. It's a neat feature, and quite unique to FSX/P3D I think.

[ObiQuiet]

Yes, that's right.

[Admiral 8Q]

This is what ours looks like.  Is that what you had in mind?

 

That is excellent for people to learn how to navigate. 

I already do that visually in my head so I don't need it. I understand that alot of people can't. That's ok. That tool should help.

I know many people can't even back their car out of there driveway without help from a machine or someone guiding them. That's common.

I'm not picking on anyone, I have to park my mother's car for her most of the time.

If you need a tool like that, then use it. It's simple and with practice you shouldn't need to rely on it anymore. 

[ObiQuiet]

Agreed, we only added it after seeing how many new players after EA were asking for something like it.

[ObiQuiet]

Fantastic!

"We're near some islands sir!"

"Yes, Lt. Stibbons, I know we're nears some bloody islands, we're in the Carribean for god sakes man, which islands are we near!?"

"I'll have to get back to you on that, sir!"

There's an idea in that... we could make the box smaller when near land. Note that it does change size and angle when you give it a sufficiently different set of coords, and from day to day even in the same place. So with two sights from different locations you can get a very good idea, I bet.

[Balsafer]

The ingame cordinates you get when you file a report won't be ingame at some point it was only intended for reporting purposes.

[ObiQuiet]

The ingame cordinates you get when you file a report won't be ingame at some point it was only intended for reporting purposes.

That is certainly true. I expected them to disappear before now.

[Admiral 8Q]

That is certainly true. I expected them to disappear before now.

My guess is since the game is still in alpha, it will remain since bugs still need to be reported.

[maturin]

Admin just said in livestream Q&A that he wants to add better compass tool for plotting courses.

 

Regarding more sophisticated instruments, he coyly pointed out that in such a case the compass would have to suffer from deviations and anomalies. Read: For ever crutch we get, expect more technical challenges.

[ObiQuiet]

Thanks for the info!  It helps to know what they're considering.

 

I'm tempted to put compass error in the "realistic-but-annoying" category, like sitting in broadcloth under a heat lamp while sailing Naval Action in the tropics. 

[maturin]

 

pted to put compass error in the "realistic-but-annoying" category, like sitting in broadcloth under a heat lamp while sailing Naval Action in the tropics.

I think it was meant more as a threat to people who whine about lacking historical tools. A reminder that we also lack historical challenges.

[Sir Texas Sir]

Next people will want the ability to set a course and have auto pilot take them there while they watch a tv and do something else.

It's funny ya'll keep saying you don't want GPS.  NO ONE HAS SAID THEY WANT GPS.  I just read through this and keep saying folks say a general location.   GENERAL LOCATION.   That is not GPS.  Hell I would love a dang spyglass in OW just so I can check land and ships from a distance.   Some of these maps ya'll have mentioned I have used and guess what they don't match the shapes of some of the in game maps or even correct locations if you go a bearing.   

 

Has any of you actually watched movies of the time like master and commander.   I bring this up cause they showed some very good use of charts and navigation when they use there ship to travel shallow waters that the french ship couldn't take.   Last I checked this was not a simulator game so I don't want to sit there with a chart and ruler that didn't come with the game to figure out my location.  Hell I been staying around only a few ports.  Sorry some of you hard core guys forget your not the only players here.   There is no in game help and I'm seeing a lot of new guys in chat say they are going to leave.  This is not the attitude you want to keep a game alive and funded.

 

No one is saying they want GPS, they just would like some better IN GAME mapping tools.

 

Also I have logged out  of game or got out of battles and wasn't even close to the same location I was before.  So now I don't know my location after the battle I have to find land and get my bearings.  Guess what now I"m sailing like I'm a viking and not some one from the 1700's.  Yes I could cheat and use the F11 GPS coordinates, but than I might as have a GPS IN game if I do that and that isn't what we are asking for.   

 

I like what Ghroznak been saying.  Make some variables to the map so that it's not exactly accurate.  Even have it stop when some are in play so you only know your last known coordinates and not your current.

[Sir Texas Sir]

Thank you for the compliments, much appreciated. Agree on the adoption into the game itself, that's one of our hopes too.

Personally, I'd want the ability to put the game map, chat windows, etc on a 2nd screen.

Yah not every one I know has dual screens to play like this.  This is pretty the only thing helping me now.  Is using out side source that should be in game to get around which it shouldn't be that way.  Now I have two as I was only using the burning sails one.

[Bodace]

I am finding I am wasting a lot of time trying to find locations and getting lost and giving up due to having to rely on compass and  guess work, and not really knowing where I am on the map. In reality a Captain was rarely lost and logged his location on his charts. He was able to do this because he had a sextant to shoot the stars/sun. This game is about being as close to reality as we can have. To not be able to see our position on the map is not realistic to the times. If the game mechanics were able to replicated a sextant type system great, but of course this would be far too complicated. In order to accurately reflect the historical reality and for the very same reasons Captains needed it, can we please have our location marked on the map with a dot/ship icon.

They didn't have a reliable time piece so although they had charts (which you have) compasses (which you have) and sextants with star charts knowing the exact time was a must.

[Ghroznak]

They didn't have a reliable time piece so although they had charts (which you have) compasses (which you have) and sextants with star charts knowing the exact time was a must.

 

They did have a quite reliably timepiece...

 

 

 

Harrison solved the precision problems with his much smaller H4 chronometerdesign in 1761. H4 looked much like a large five-inch (12 cm) diameter pocket watch. In 1761, Harrison submitted H4 for the £20,000 longitude prize. His design used a fast-beating balance wheel controlled by a temperature-compensated spiral spring. These features remained in use until stable electronic oscillators allowed very accurate portable timepieces to be made at affordable cost. In 1767, the Board of Longitude published a description of his work in The Principles of Mr. Harrison's time-keeper.

 

Note that this was in 1761, and it was published in 1767.

 

By comparison to the game, the Pickle was built in 1799, the Constitution in 1797... 30 years after the chronometer was finished, approved and published. 30 years is a long time... just look at our own timeline. Did we have ipads, tablets, iphones, broadband internet and so on 30 years ago?

 

Maritime chronometers may not have been onboard every ship. They may have been expensive to make. But fact remains, they were available, and they were quite accurate (not down to a yard or meter, but within just a few miles if measurements were done correctly). "Just a few miles" in accuracy for a ship back then in almost as amazing as us getting a GPS that's accurate down to a centimeter.

 

Anyways, I've stated my opinions on this discussion, put forward the arguments and the historical facts around navigational aids, when they were available in history and the place in time we are apparently playing given the dates the ships available to us were launched.

 

All up to the devs though what direction they want their game to take with respect to historical accuracy, realism and playability.

[marchese]

i disagree with any kind of navigation help......I've never lost my destination (i.e. from corrientes to canalete).....without sea stream and leeway is very simple to navigate. The "buriningsail.com" map is easy to use and very useful because the game map is North oriented.

 

Please, learn to navigate like  a sumbarine captain with time and heading.

[Shoeshine]

I sure like the game being hardcore and all. But not being able to se where I am on map is just alittle to hardcore, and quite pointless and time consuming. Game has a slow pace as is. No point in sinking even more time into finding out wtf you are. And as OP said, it goes in line with sailors of that time as well.

Edited February 20, 2016 by Shoeshine

[Sylven1]

i disagree with any kind of navigation help......I've never lost my destination (i.e. from corrientes to canalete).....without sea stream and leeway is very simple to navigate. The "buriningsail.com" map is easy to use and very useful because the game map is North oriented.

Please, learn to navigate like a sumbarine captain with time and heading.

Played hundreds if not thousands of hours on Silent Hunter 1-3. They had compass, ruler, and protracter all on the ingame map, and all movable so you could get a proper heading.

Also like how you say no to navigation aids in game, to then say use a map that's outside of game to navigate.

So it's okay to use OUTSIDE the game navigation aids, but put them in game so they are right there is a no go.

Oh...and SH games you could use time to change heading cause you could use the protractor to get the distance you needed to go, figure in your spead, so you then had the known point to turn to your new heading. Where are those tools in game so I can navigate by dead reckoning and time?

Edited February 20, 2016 by Sylven1

[Capt_Streak]

I enjoy the current navigation, and would also enjoy some dead reckoning tools being added to the map. I believe online games should be a sport, where improving skill at game versions of real world skills gives improved passion for the game. The navigation aspect of this game is a real discriminator.

 

I have seen and played online games that prospered because of this. Air games, Racing games, Shooting games (sort of). OK, full disclosure: I designed shooting video games where you had to in-game craft your own rifle ammunition in order to compete, so you understand my prejudices.    But I also paid $2/hour in the ancient days of the previous century to play some of these sims/games, and it was worth it. (WB: para)

 

One thing I always advocate is for the developers to support the tinkerers among the players by indicating (when they get around to it) what important simplifications they've made. Like, maybe "The World Is Flat". Then there's no use for me going out and doing a lot of testing just to figure out if a great circle course is shorter than a straight line. Or, if the game map uses a particular projection, let us know (some time.) Things like that. It's not going to be a big hairy secret for too long in any event. It will just take someone a lot of work to discover that could have been avoided by a few sentences.

 

The ideas in this game are great. To the developers: Build it out, make money, and best wishes!

 

 

I did laugh reading some of the posts above... "Just pull into dock and ask the name of the port!"  I was sailing from Cristiansted to Basse-Terre last night and did just that. With one thing or another (my wife trying to talk to me while I'm trying to navigate), I pulled in was turned away and checked my navigation at Basseterre and then ended up sailing all around (I can hear some of you laughing already) what turned out to be St. Kitts trying to find something that matched the map,  cursing because apparently the dang British had apparently conquered Guadalope Island on the PVE server...

 

 

 

(^^Navigation joke: Basseterre on St. Kitts is a different port than Basse-Terre on Guadalope)

[Bert Beard]

What ! .......there was no GPS back in the 18th century ?

 

And how come the ships are so slow in Naval Action, back when I was playing POTBS I had sailing ships that would do over 100 knots !    

Edited February 20, 2016 by Bert Beard

[Captain]

They should let you determine your latitude just like sailors could back then. 

[Ghroznak]

They should let you determine your latitude just like sailors could back then. 

 

The sailors at end of 1700's and early 1800's were fully capable of also getting longitude (see my posts further up, not going to repost it all).